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With @Hylands and @Ricer13 Leaving the M to go to the VHL we have two new positions open for Miami and Mexico City.    With out further ado,    Who is going to be GMing Mexico Ci

We've been having a fun discussion and looking back through history since the start of S75 to see if vets are actually taking opportunities from first-gens/newer members. From S75 (or whenever @Hex Un

I have nothing but respect for the work done by both @Advantageand @InstantRockstar, but shouldn't these positions be used as an opportunity for those who haven't GM'd before? These are essentially "e

Personally I stand on the side that a GM role should be given to someone with some experience. 
 

New members should be hired for the WJC and for AGM positions at either level as an entry point to gain experience. Once you have some experience then being considered for a GM role makes sense.

 

I start from the bottom. I got an AGM job as a first gen user. I worked my ass off for that team and it got noticed. I also GM’d for the WJC to gain a bit more experience. This led to me ultimately becoming a GM which in my opinion is the right way to do it.

 

No offense to first gens but becoming a GM without any knowledge of how this league works or the amount of effort it actually takes only sets you up for failure.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

I start from the bottom. I got an AGM job as a first gen user. I worked my ass off for that team and it got noticed. I also GM’d for the WJC to gain a bit more experience. This led to me ultimately becoming a GM which in my opinion is the right way to do it.

And that's how I'm doing it too

As a still recent first-gen user, I know I have a long way to go in terms of gaining knowledge regarding how to fully run a team. Many others have put in far more work for a lot longer and each member that earns a position did just that, they all EARNED it.

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2 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

I also agree with Spartan in the sense that first gens have been given a large amount of opportunity in this league.

We're two great representatives of that statement! We've had a shit ton of opportunities in this league because we've worked for it and kept applying even after we got rejected the first time. We've all been rejected plenty of times, just gotta keep applying for anything and everything.

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5 minutes ago, Spartan said:

We've been having a fun discussion and looking back through history since the start of S75 to see if vets are actually taking opportunities from first-gens/newer members. From S75 (or whenever @Hex Universe joined the league) to today, we've recorded 18 hirings to VHL/VHLM GM/AGM positions. We made a nice breakdown of how it shapes up:

 

VHL GM:

1 First-Gen - Hylands

1 Veteran - Ricer (2nd player about to get drafted)

 

VHL AGM:

5 First-Gens - MattyIce, Ledge, Brewins, Selsby, Domg

1 Vet - Poptart

 

VHL GM:

3 First-Gens: Rory, Zetterberg, Thad

2 Vets: ADV, IR

 

VHLM AGM:

6 First-Gens: Hex, Juice, Tina, Selsby x2 (yeesh this man be zooming around), Prout for a brief stint.

 

Total breakdown, from S75 onwards, 15 out of 19 GM/AGM hirings have been First-Gens. I really, really do not think this is cause for concern lol. 

 

That also doesn't mean people aren't going to blow up about it. VHLM drama doesn't need a reason to happen before it does 😛

 

I guess I just also wonder who else was considered and who else was directly passed over. Was someone who deserves a job and who has applied a few times passed over in favor of an experienced member who applied once? In that case I'd still disagree with that for a VHLM hiring at least, regardless of the members involved or past hiring history involving (or not involving) first-gens.

 

Like I said, the best thing for everyone to do is to move on and accept ADV and IR as VHLM GMs. If valid and relevant points about the hiring process were made in this thread, I hope they're considered as feedback--but "I'm going to whine because I don't like who was hired" is the classic VHLM drama and I hope that doesn't creep in too much either.

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I think one thing lost in this debate (but touched on by Spartan and Gus) is that the jobs of a GM in both leagues are fundamentally different. Like Spartan said, the VHLM is a really hard job that deserves more recognition for what it requires.

 

The VHL GM is focused on building a winning program. They have to think long term about setting the team up for a shot at the Continental Cup first and foremost. The players on their team are x's and o's. The VHL GM is concerned with people.

 

The VHLM GM is focused on building a community. The VHLM GM is your first friend in the league when you join. They set the tone, the culture, and the path forward for you in your VHL experience. A bad first impression, a negative or AWOL VHLM GM can turn a new member off the league for good. The VHLM GM also has to have been around long enough to get the culture of the community as a whole. A VHLM GM who is in their first calendar six-months might not know what goes on here, how we do things, how to navigate the people and the procedures, and just overall "get" the place. Your VHLM GM is your mentor, and how the mentor views and is viewed in the community is central to indoctrinating the new members with positive vibes and relationships to set them up for a long career in the VHL. First-gens are tied to their VHLM GM (everyone remembers their first) and so choosing those people wisely is really important.

 

I'll come out and say it: VHLM GM is the harder job to do. You're growing people and community members. You're like a parent, a role model, a leader. The VHL is more video-game like; the VHLM is more like a club. But you have to be a stand-up member of that club in order to model the club's rules, norms, ideas, ways of doing things. You need experience and expertise to be a VHLM GM. There's value in "learning alongside your members" as a greener GM, but there's way more value in knowing your way around the league.

 

VHLM GMs are incredibly important, and I disagree that a VHL position is a promotion from the M. They perform two totally different functions in the structure of our organization, and need to be chosen and supported as such. Ricer was an unbelievable VHLM GM, and I'm sure he'll bring a lot of his strengths in community building, mentoring, and overall engaging into the VHL - I don't think he'll be as good a VHL GM because of how perfectly he embodied the goals of the VHLM.

 

obligatory edit before I get eaten: Yes, VHL GMs care about their players too. Yes, I support IR and ADV because they are people people and cheerleaders and strong candidates for this. Yes, first-gens can gain entry into the club quickly and be good VHLM GMs. 

Edited by bigAL
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First off I want to congratulate both Advantage and Instant Rockstar on their hiring in the VHLM.

 

***

 

Now to comment on the debate:


I think Spartan nailed it when he said that AGM position should be prioritized for new members. I also am of the opinion that having veteran members in GM positions for the VHLM has incredible value when it comes to retention and overall experience for new people. 

 

I think that it is almost impossible for the blue's not to favor certain people when it comes to GM positions in the VHL. For example, Hylands was recommended by Frostbeard, but that wasn't the whole reason as to why they chose him, obviously they think he was a solid choice because of his personality and impact on the community. Also, Ricer is clearly a fantastic choice for GM as well based on his track record in Miami and how much he contributes overall. I don't disagree with the choices made by the blues because I think both of those members kick ass.

 

But, a part of me does wonder why users like Instant Rockstar, Blademaiden and Rayz weren't chosen ahead of them for the VHL? They have more seniority than Hylands and Ricer and have also proven themselves of not only GM'ing but having a positive impact on the community. I have personal experience with IR as a GM, as he has been my GM twice, and he was a big reason why I enjoyed my time with San Diego when I first got here. When I see his comment about having no chance to get a role as a VHL GM, I am confused as to why he feels that way. Is that true? These hires would suggest so, and if it is true- Did he do something wrong? If so, was it so wrong that it forever takes away his chance of GM'ing the VHL?  

 

Then I look at Blade and Rayzor, who have had tussles in the past, does that mean they are forever excluded now? If yes, then I disagree with that choice, because I believe both have paid their dues and should be given the ultimate opportunity to become a VHL GM, and I also think both have more than proven that they are quality people who can lead a team. 

 

I should mention that I personally believe that the blues are forgiving people when it comes to members making mistakes or going to head to head with them, as I have seen them do the same with me, but I do empathize with the users who have been left out of this round of hiring. Being in management is not easy, and I believe that the blue's try to be as fair as possible when they make decisions. Sometimes it isn't as cut and dry as we want it to be, and it's hard when questions remain unanswered. I think of how I would manage, and I'll admit that I would lean towards people I favor compared to others who may have more experience, so I get why certain decisions have been made. 

 

Life is not fair, and certainly nothing worth gaining is ever given to you. The accomplishments we rightfully earn feel the best. I just hope that the doors for members like IR, Blade, and Rayz remain open. 

 

 

 

 

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For the sake of clarity and to clarify, it isn't that VHL GM jobs are specifically off limits for older members. The terminology used is probably what is causing confusion here.

 

When the GM application process became more involved there was a effort by many behind the scenes to see people who have not had as many cracks at GMing take over in the bigs. Given that a lot of veteran older members have GM'd some VHL clubs off/on for many seasons, it's not that much of a stretch to say given the leagues size that these members have had their fair chances at these roles. However it's important to note the distinction that this doesn't disqualify them from applying or earning these roles either. Just that it's more likely a newer face who hasn't had as much time in the bigs with a good resume is higher on, or makes the short list. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Devise
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