Should We Say Farewell to the Junior Review and Prospect Report?

[Viper 528]

Should We Say Farewell to the Junior Review and Prospect Report?

 

I feel that the VHL community should say goodbye to the Junior Review and Prospect Report. They are the exact same task. They can be done during the same season, and basically require you to write the same things.

Yell at me all you want, but this is just... too easy. I feel the point of earning TPE is you have to earn it. This isn't quite earning it, you are basically just writing the same thing twice for 5 extra uncapped TPE.

This has come to my attention via @GrittyIsKing09's suggestion about more uncapped TPE. Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with uncapped TPE. The only reason I have a problem with this is because these two tasks are the exact same thing. To me, it just makes no sense to have these two seperate. If we combine these two tasks into, let's say, the old Rookie Profile, it would make so much sense. It IS a rookie profile.

The only difference between the two is one asks to list your strengths and weaknesses and the other doesn't. Other than that, they are the same.

All it takes is for one additional paragraph to be added to the Junior Review about your strengths, and you have yourself the Rookie Profile.

 

However, let's take a dive into why it may have been implemented.

It is a nice way for new players to get an easy 10 TPE. It helps boost interest in the VHL, giving new players a reason to keep going. It can help people just, take a break for a week after writing these two.

As @Beketov has said, people were requesting that the career tasks be split up into multiple in order to gain their TPE.

However, splitting into these two was just not the best idea. Perhaps they should keep these two, but lower the TPE or add more to the prospect report.

The prospect report is just a "meh" task. You write down 2 things over 400 words and you have 5 TPE. If you were to keep this, lower it to 2 TPE, because that is about all this is worth.

Or, perhaps, increase the amount of words in each task. Make it somewhere around 700? These are tasks that you can only do once per career, and are uncapped. Why should you work less than a weekly task that is capped?

It just wasn't a good idea. TPE is something that requires effort, you can almost copy and paste (not physically, but in your head) one task onto the other. It just doesn't work well.

 

If we were to combine the two again, it would be better. Add the amount of words you must do, make it worth 6 TPE.

It just isn't worth it to have two seperate tasks. It can be taken advantage of very easily. All a person has to do is write 800 words in an hour and they get 10 TPE.

Now, @Beketov brought up the time constraint. I feel this really does nothing as players have around 2-3 months to complete this task. That really isn't a constraint if you ask me, it may as well be whenever.

The idea of splitting these two up can still work, however only letting a member do one. A member can either choose to write the Propsect Scouting Report or the Junior Review, but not both.

It could be a nice little "Choose Your Path" PT. You can write about your strengths and weaknesses, or you can write about your career beforehand.

 

Another way to look at this is limiting it to one week of joining. You MUST write them in your first week of joining if you want your TPE. This would be a time constraint that people would take notice to.

Now this is a stretch solution, but who knows. Also, if the two tasks were truly divided into seperate tasks to get more TPE for new members, it may lead new members to think that getting uncapped TPE is a regular thing, which may drive members away when they find out that they cannot do these very often. Or, it may lead them to believe that all PTs are this easy, which they aren't.

I am not saying that they are hard, rather they aren't easy. The tasks are still very fun, but the work ethic is what makes them fun. Or, if they are meant to be easy, make them worth 2 uncapped TPE.

The .coms are meant to be a little easier than the main PTs, that is why they are worth so much less than the main PTs. They are meant to be a quick task to whip up.

 

Now, we are going to slowly wrap this up. In review, the two uncapped career tasks of Junior Reviews and Prospect Reports cannot co-exist.

We have looked at multiple solutions for them, and I am sure more people will light me up in replies with more solutions because mine are shit. However, this should hopefully bring attention to the issue.

That is, if you view this as an issue. You may all think I am crazy for trying to remove free TPE, but I stand by what I said. I ask you all reply with your own solutions to fix this.

I also ask that if you do not share this opinion, make it clear WHY you do not share this opinion by explaining why you feel that these two tasks are fine the way they are.

This also brings up a new question, should we eliminate all career tasks? That's an article for another day though, haha.

 

Anyways VHL, thank you for listening to my boring rant and thank you for voicing your opinions. Hopefully you don't just think I am some crazy member, and hopefully you reply with your own thoughts. I do hope that this article has peaked your interest, and with that being said, I am going to wrap up the longest article I have ever written.

 

Goodbye VHL members, thank you for reading, and have a good day.

 

1,029 Words

 

Edit: Please ignore me saying "Completely or Exact", I got a bit loose with my wording. However, they are very similar and can be comined into one. I'd like to see a change in the prospect report's requirements + a small gap in between the two tasks because the prospect report is quite bare.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Wolverine

[mediocrepony 1,216]

how the heck did you write 1,000 words in less than 45 minutes

[Viper 528]

Just now, GrittyIsKing09 said:

how the heck did you write 1,000 words in less than 45 minutes

I feel very strongly about this topic, so I got to work 

[ThePerfectNut 563]

When you got something in mind, It can be done under 10 min lol (Without care for the presentation and such)

[N0HBDY 1,005]

36 minutes ago, GrittyIsKing09 said:

how the heck did you write 1,000 words in less than 45 minutes

He doesn't sleep

[Zetterberg 859]

This is such a non-issue. I don't think you understand the difference between the two. The junior review is the story of how your player ended up in the VHL and what experiences or struggles they had alone the way. It focuses very little or not at all at what type of payer they are. Whereas the Scouting report is all about what type of player you are and what you are going to focus on when you build your player. If you think they are the same thing you are doing them wrong. I can speak from personal experience doing both tasks twice before that there is a huge difference in writing them. Next time I'd suggest actually doing research on the topic before trying to make an unnecessary change.

[Viper 528]

10 minutes ago, Zetterberg said:

This is such a non-issue. I don't think you understand the difference between the two. The junior review is the story of how your player ended up in the VHL and what experiences or struggles they had alone the way. It focuses very little or not at all at what type of payer they are. Whereas the Scouting report is all about what type of player you are and what you are going to focus on when you build your player. If you think they are the same thing you are doing them wrong. I can speak from personal experience doing both tasks twice before that there is a huge difference in writing them. Next time I'd suggest actually doing research on the topic before trying to make an unnecessary change.

Ah here comes the lighting me up, love ya Z.

I have done research. Don't you think that I've done that before writing 1000 words?

In my past experience, they are basically the same. Maybe I used the word "exact" too much haha. I just feel that the Prospect Report can be merged into the Junior Review, as people tend to do.

I understand why you are a little "upset", that is my fault for my wording, I apoligize. I feel that the Prospect Report focuses too much on a set subject, whereas the Junior Review has a more... expanded subject.

The MAIN reason of writing this article however was to mainly combine the two since they can just go together better. 10 TPE uncapped is just a little much

If anything is wrong with what I've said, light me up again haha.

[v.2 1,260]

1 hour ago, Zetterberg said:

This is such a non-issue. I don't think you understand the difference between the two. The junior review is the story of how your player ended up in the VHL and what experiences or struggles they had alone the way. It focuses very little or not at all at what type of payer they are. Whereas the Scouting report is all about what type of player you are and what you are going to focus on when you build your player. If you think they are the same thing you are doing them wrong. I can speak from personal experience doing both tasks twice before that there is a huge difference in writing them. Next time I'd suggest actually doing research on the topic before trying to make an unnecessary change.

My thoughts exactly, both are quite different actually, especially if paced properly instead of chunked all at once in a race to get TPE.  When @McKelvieand I came back in March we were actually relieved to see that we didn't have to write huge bio's anymore.  Personally, I completed my Junior Review prior to the season starting, giving a backstory on where my player came from and his (made up) junior career, somewhat of a mini-bio.  Then, once I had a few games under my belt (I think at least 20) I had compiled enough stats to sensibly and accurately write up the Scouting Report.

 

The only change I'd agree with being made is if the TPE for each of these 2 was bumped to like 7, along with an increase to the minimum required word count.

Edited May 6, 2021 by v.2

[Viper 528]

11 minutes ago, v.2 said:

My thoughts exactly, both are quite different actually, especially if paced properly instead of chunked all at once in a race to get TPE.  When @McKelvieand I came back in March we were actually relieved to see that we didn't have to write huge bio's anymore.  Personally, I completed my Junior Review prior to the season starting, giving a backstory on where my player came from and his (made up) junior career, somewhat of a mini-bio.  Then, once I had a few games under my belt (I think at least 20) I had compiled enough stats to sensibly and accurately write up the Scouting Report.

 

The only change I'd agree with being made is if the TPE for each of these 2 was bumped to like 7, along with an increase to the minimum required word count.

I know I messed up my wording, I understand they are different, but not COMPLETELY different. It'd be better if they were either combined into one, or more spread out. I just feel that they are too close together. Perhaps push them another season apart. I also completely agree with the word count increase, 400 is just a minimum.

 

However I am a little upset because it appears you and Z haven't focused on anything besides one of my points. I went on to list ways to keep both, change both, etc. I also went on to say WHY I feel that they should combine or be eliminated. There were many points but it seems you two focused on just one of many. Please understand all of my points before going after just one.

[v.2 1,260]

1 minute ago, Wolverine said:

I know I messed up my wording, I understand they are different, but not COMPLETELY different. It'd be better if they were either combined into one, or more spread out. I just feel that they are too close together. Perhaps push them another season apart. I also completely agree with the word count increase, 400 is just a minimum.

 

However I am a little upset because it appears you and Z haven't focused on anything besides one of my points. I went on to list ways to keep both, change both, etc. I also went on to say WHY I feel that they should combine or be eliminated. There were many points but it seems you two focused on just one of many. Please understand all of my points before going after just one.

They are completely different though lol

[Viper 528]

Just now, v.2 said:

They are completely different though lol

Once again, not completely. It would just flow together better if they were listed into one PT. I do see where you are coming from, but it would just be better in my mind this way.

Also, once again, I'm fine if they would just be spread out a little bit more. Just a one or two season gap, just not all in one season. 

I do appreciate the feedback, but I wish that more than one of my points would be viewed.

[v.2 1,260]

Only change I'd like to see is a player must have played at least 20 or 30 games before being able to write a Prospect Scouting Report. (less for goalies, or maybe be on a roster for 20 GP)

[Viper 528]

1 minute ago, v.2 said:

Only change I'd like to see is a player must have played at least 20 or 30 games before being able to write a Prospect Scouting Report. (less for goalies, or maybe be on a roster for 20 GP)

That would be a decent change. Spreading them out a little bit.

[Viper 528]

In review, a small change in requirements for the Prospect Report + a gap in between the two would be a suiteable replacement/fix.

[tcookie 672]

5 hours ago, Wolverine said:

I feel that the VHL community should say goodbye to the Junior Review and Prospect Report. They are the exact same task. They can be done during the same season, and basically require you to write the same things.

Yell at me all you want, but this is just... too easy. I feel the point of earning TPE is you have to earn it. This isn't quite earning it, you are basically just writing the same thing twice for 5 extra uncapped TPE.

This has come to my attention via @GrittyIsKing09's suggestion about more uncapped TPE. Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with uncapped TPE. The only reason I have a problem with this is because these two tasks are the exact same thing. To me, it just makes no sense to have these two seperate. If we combine these two tasks into, let's say, the old Rookie Profile, it would make so much sense. It IS a rookie profile.

The only difference between the two is one asks to list your strengths and weaknesses and the other doesn't. Other than that, they are the same.

All it takes is for one additional paragraph to be added to the Junior Review about your strengths, and you have yourself the Rookie Profile.

 

I know you later on said not to get hung up on you saying "exact" etc. but I mean... you reiterated it A LOT throughout this paragraph and other times here too. Even if you have softened your stance or initially meant very similar instead of exact, honestly, I disagree. They are covering two very different areas. It does make sense in a scouting report to briefly touch on a player's previous career, so I will give you that there is a small amount of overlap between them. However, one of them is about what kind of player they are and the other is a much more expanded look at a player's previous career than a scouting report requires. I think the amount of overlap is quite small.

 

Quote

However, let's take a dive into why it may have been implemented.

It is a nice way for new players to get an easy 10 TPE. It helps boost interest in the VHL, giving new players a reason to keep going. It can help people just, take a break for a week after writing these two.

As @Beketov has said, people were requesting that the career tasks be split up into multiple in order to gain their TPE.

 

The nice way for new players to get 10 TPE and the requests to have the career tasks be split up are both solid reasons for it to have been implemented as it is. You can really get someone into the league by providing an opportunity to earn points & expand upon their players' backstory right away. I mean I probably would've stayed either way but it was certainly pretty fun for me to get to write both of those PTs right away.

 

I don't disagree that it would flow better if they were combined into the same task. But I mean... so would a junior review, rookie experience, and veteran experience all combined into one biography type thing, no? Members have actually expressed a desire to have them split up into multiple career PTs. Better to have something that works for the members in general than something that flows better but people don't really want to participate in.

 

Quote

However, splitting into these two was just not the best idea. Perhaps they should keep these two, but lower the TPE or add more to the prospect report.

The prospect report is just a "meh" task. You write down 2 things over 400 words and you have 5 TPE. If you were to keep this, lower it to 2 TPE, because that is about all this is worth.

Or, perhaps, increase the amount of words in each task. Make it somewhere around 700? These are tasks that you can only do once per career, and are uncapped. Why should you work less than a weekly task that is capped?

It just wasn't a good idea. TPE is something that requires effort, you can almost copy and paste (not physically, but in your head) one task onto the other. It just doesn't work well.

 

Why should they be treated differently than other career PTs? It only really makes sense to suggest it when combined with the similarity point that you go back to in the last line here, which means this isn't really a different point from your initial one. From the perspective that they aren't that similar, having them as two different career PTs worth the same as any other career PT makes sense.

 

Also, what's wrong with working less than a weekly capped task for them? They can be worth more because they are one-off, uncapped writing opportunities. It's not a reason to make them harder or worth less.

 

Quote

If we were to combine the two again, it would be better. Add the amount of words you must do, make it worth 6 TPE.

It just isn't worth it to have two seperate tasks. It can be taken advantage of very easily. All a person has to do is write 800 words in an hour and they get 10 TPE.

Now, @Beketov brought up the time constraint. I feel this really does nothing as players have around 2-3 months to complete this task. That really isn't a constraint if you ask me, it may as well be whenever.

The idea of splitting these two up can still work, however only letting a member do one. A member can either choose to write the Propsect Scouting Report or the Junior Review, but not both.

It could be a nice little "Choose Your Path" PT. You can write about your strengths and weaknesses, or you can write about your career beforehand.

 

With a regular media spot, all a person has to do is write 1000 words in an hour and they get 12 TPE and two weeks worth of main PTs covered. How is that all that different than writing 800 words in an hour to get 10 TPE?

 

As for the suggestion of combining them - I don't think it' s necessarily a bad idea I just don't think it really accomplishes anything. Having another tier of career PTs of adds a layer of complication too. Just leave them all the same and make everyone's life easier. Same thing for having them both available but you only choose one. It's fine, there's nothing inherently bad about it, but why? It only serves to take 5 TPE away from a new player, which is exciting to have at the time, and it's not like the 5 extra uncapped TPE is going to matter by the time they're established in the league. It's half a point on a skill from 95-99. I mean ... I am all for some rework of the TPE thing, I think we have too many TPE available and it's too easy for players to get to 99s in attributes and it makes builds kinda boring. But in the grand scheme of things, this feels like a super minor thing that doesn't have an impact in the long-term and just hurts new people in the short term.

 

Quote

Another way to look at this is limiting it to one week of joining. You MUST write them in your first week of joining if you want your TPE. This would be a time constraint that people would take notice to.

Now this is a stretch solution, but who knows. Also, if the two tasks were truly divided into seperate tasks to get more TPE for new members, it may lead new members to think that getting uncapped TPE is a regular thing, which may drive members away when they find out that they cannot do these very often. Or, it may lead them to believe that all PTs are this easy, which they aren't.

I am not saying that they are hard, rather they aren't easy. The tasks are still very fun, but the work ethic is what makes them fun. Or, if they are meant to be easy, make them worth 2 uncapped TPE.

The .coms are meant to be a little easier than the main PTs, that is why they are worth so much less than the main PTs. They are meant to be a quick task to whip up.

 

New people are just learning the league in their first week of joining. You don't need to throw a "write these now or miss out on TPE" thing at them within their first week when they're still trying to figure things out, decide if they want to stick around, etc. Are they going to think getting uncapped TPE is a regular thing? I don't know but I mean I certainly didn't expect to be able to write prospect reports all the time when I joined. I don't see any indication that people think uncapped TPE is everywhere and then becoming annoyed and leaving when they realize it isn't. Seems like a hypothetical situation that rarely if ever has happened in reality. Conversely, again, members have actually expressed a desire to have career PTs split up. So that's supported by something that's actually happened, rather than a hypothetical that we haven't really seen happen since it's been implemented this way.

 

Also ... I really don't think main PTs are any more difficult. Especially with the ability to claim for multiple weeks.

[Viper 528]

14 minutes ago, tcookie said:

 

I know you later on said not to get hung up on you saying "exact" etc. but I mean... you reiterated it A LOT throughout this paragraph and other times here too. Even if you have softened your stance or initially meant very similar instead of exact, honestly, I disagree. They are covering two very different areas. It does make sense in a scouting report to briefly touch on a player's previous career, so I will give you that there is a small amount of overlap between them. However, one of them is about what kind of player they are and the other is a much more expanded look at a player's previous career than a scouting report requires. I think the amount of overlap is quite small.

 

 

The nice way for new players to get 10 TPE and the requests to have the career tasks be split up are both solid reasons for it to have been implemented as it is. You can really get someone into the league by providing an opportunity to earn points & expand upon their players' backstory right away. I mean I probably would've stayed either way but it was certainly pretty fun for me to get to write both of those PTs right away.

 

I don't disagree that it would flow better if they were combined into the same task. But I mean... so would a junior review, rookie experience, and veteran experience all combined into one biography type thing, no? Members have actually expressed a desire to have them split up into multiple career PTs. Better to have something that works for the members in general than something that flows better but people don't really want to participate in.

 

 

Why should they be treated differently than other career PTs? It only really makes sense to suggest it when combined with the similarity point that you go back to in the last line here, which means this isn't really a different point from your initial one. From the perspective that they aren't that similar, having them as two different career PTs worth the same as any other career PT makes sense.

 

Also, what's wrong with working less than a weekly capped task for them? They can be worth more because they are one-off, uncapped writing opportunities. It's not a reason to make them harder or worth less.

 

 

With a regular media spot, all a person has to do is write 1000 words in an hour and they get 12 TPE and two weeks worth of main PTs covered. How is that all that different than writing 800 words in an hour to get 10 TPE?

 

As for the suggestion of combining them - I don't think it' s necessarily a bad idea I just don't think it really accomplishes anything. Having another tier of career PTs of adds a layer of complication too. Just leave them all the same and make everyone's life easier. Same thing for having them both available but you only choose one. It's fine, there's nothing inherently bad about it, but why? It only serves to take 5 TPE away from a new player, which is exciting to have at the time, and it's not like the 5 extra uncapped TPE is going to matter by the time they're established in the league. It's half a point on a skill from 95-99. I mean ... I am all for some rework of the TPE thing, I think we have too many TPE available and it's too easy for players to get to 99s in attributes and it makes builds kinda boring. But in the grand scheme of things, this feels like a super minor thing that doesn't have an impact in the long-term and just hurts new people in the short term.

 

 

New people are just learning the league in their first week of joining. You don't need to throw a "write these now or miss out on TPE" thing at them within their first week when they're still trying to figure things out, decide if they want to stick around, etc. Are they going to think getting uncapped TPE is a regular thing? I don't know but I mean I certainly didn't expect to be able to write prospect reports all the time when I joined. I don't see any indication that people think uncapped TPE is everywhere and then becoming annoyed and leaving when they realize it isn't. Seems like a hypothetical situation that rarely if ever has happened in reality. Conversely, again, members have actually expressed a desire to have career PTs split up. So that's supported by something that's actually happened, rather than a hypothetical that we haven't really seen happen since it's been implemented this way.

 

Also ... I really don't think main PTs are any more difficult. Especially with the ability to claim for multiple weeks.

Like I said, all just ideas. And yes, I do understand they are different but like I said, would fit better as one OR do what I said in my edit. Some things I wrote then I changed my mind now, and I understand the public doesn't share these opinions.

 

This was meant as a PT and I was just sharing my thoughts, so please do not get hung up over these things.

 

I do, however, thank you for touching on every single word.

 

If you want to yell at me further, hit me up on discord (Wolverine#4753) since it will be much easier. Thank you for taking the time to read this and taking the time to yell at me haha.

[Red 499]

lmao u just chessed u gotta write this shit every time you create a new player

[Viper 528]

Claiming 1/2

[Viper 528]

Claiming 2/2