Its Time to Axe Trivia

[v.2 1,260]

(I'm sure @Victorwill love this thread.)

 

I think it's time to get rid of trivia.  While the positives that come from it are teaching members about some of the history/records/HOFers of the league, it's a bit of a cake walk in terms of justifiably earning TPE.  It's known that everyone just "cheats" and waits for the answers to be posted in the discord LRs, with maybe a handful of members doing some actual research and digging for the correct answers each week.  This was very evident about a month ago when practically everyone only earned 1 TPE for an incorrect answer.  Another issue (and I am in no way pinning any blame on Victor or anyone) is that when trivia is late, delayed, or in the off season, members get stuck in 2TPE limbo unsure of when they can earn the final 2 capped on the week.

 

My suggestions for a replacement include the following:

- Allow for 4 reviews a week (I personally hate reviews so this is not my #1 fix)

- Allow for 2 .com's per week, whether its 2 GFX, a graphic and an article, etc.  Whatever adds up to 4 capped .com TPE.

- To preserve the purpose of trivia, allow members to submit a "History fact" or some "League Lore" for 2 TPE.  Essentially this would be each individual member who does this providing their own trivia style question and answer based on some homework they've done themselves on the forum or portal.

 

Ultimately I'm just trying to drum up some discussion here and see what some other sentiments toward this are.

 

[Spartan 3,993]

9 minutes ago, v.2 said:

- Allow for 2 .com's per week, whether its 2 GFX, a graphic and an article, etc.  Whatever adds up to 4 capped .com TPE.

This is allowed actually, they just can't be 2 articles or 2 graphics. You can mix and match 2 out of the three in each week.

[Gustav 6,086]

I'm cool with allowing more reviews in any case--as long as standards for those are kept at an acceptable level. 

 

As for trivia, the thread seems to have been hidden for some reason (to which I say LITERALLY 1984 and LET US HAVE OUR FORUM DRAMA), but around January-February of last year sharing answers to trivia questions was made illegal for like...a day and a half before that announcement was retracted. Needless to say, it didn't go over very well. I wasn't against it at the time and even though I'm on team "let the people have their trivia" these days, I agree that it's a bit too easy. There's no real way to get around that, though, aside from nuking trivia entirely or banning answer sharing again, neither of which I'd personally rather have over the current system.

 

It's not as rampant as it used to be--there was a time when half the league got their answers either directly or indirectly through me because @Esso2264  would just post them everywhere after I did. 

[Victor 10,526]

I haven't read but I agree completely, please get rid of it I can't. 

[rory 1,759]

or get someone that cares to run it lol

[Ricer13 2,592]

I’ll run it 

[STZ 5,280]

Let’s just make Practice Facility worth 3

[dlamb 1,299]

Trivia a few times a season, and it's uncapped.

 

 

 

Also we need more capped tasks reviews suck and are all the same

 

[Spartan 3,993]

29 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

as long as standards for those are kept at an acceptable level.

Unfortunately standards for reviews are basically set on an updater by updater basis. 

 

These are our current "standards":
 

Reviewing should now consist of at least 1 Constructive Paragraph for 1 Capped TPE each. 
You may do up to 2 Reviews Weekly and they must include a score out of 10 on top of the constructive criticism that they would normally contain.

 

So "1 constructive paragraph" is pretty vague, and I personally interpret it as 3-4 sentences that should be at least 100 words. However, I drop it a bit to just 2-3 full sentences of somewhat relevant feedback/criticism because very few people write 100+ words for reviews. However, I think that there should be word counts for reviews, because we have word counts for just about everything else. Media spots must be at least 500 words, VHL.com articles are 150 minimum (I think it should be 200), so the trend seems to be about 70-80 words per 1 tpe. Press conferences are also super lax, we're just enforcing "full sentences as responses" as the requirement. Overall though, I'd rather see the league push people towards creating more content than having 5+ reviews saying the same thing on an article from 2 weeks ago.

 

 

[Ricer13 2,592]

I would happily take over running Trivia to keep it going. 

[Dil 1,744]

I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better.

 

On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out.

 

It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely.

 

It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,705]

Oh sure, axe it now that Peace is actually the longest-serving Toronto GM. Convenient.

[frescoelmo 1,217]

bring back grading

 

[Ricer13 2,592]

37 minutes ago, Dil said:

I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better.

 

On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out.

 

It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely.

 

It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while.

This is big brain

[ColeMrtz 571]

2 hours ago, Spartan said:

they just can't be 2 articles or 2 graphics

Is that part even enforced? I've seen people claim two .com articles in a week before

[Spartan 3,993]

Just now, ColeMrtz said:

Is that part even enforced? I've seen people claim two .com articles in a week before

Mistakes happen on the updater end, but we do review player update logs from time to time and revoke updates if we see stuff like that. If you see recent examples of it, it's best to let an updater know directly!

[diamond_ace 3,106]

While I agree that trivia when gotten from a shared answer list is too easy, I would also posit that trivia when finding the answers yourself is the hardest TPE on the site by a mile. While Dil's idea would get trivia back to its original purpose (and fair enough, if that's what the league deems necessary) I'd argue having to sit and actually find the answers every week would burn people out far quicker than they realize. 

[BOOM 8,401]

Similar to STZ, it was virtually free TPE anyway. Make PF worth 2 and vhl. Com submissions worth 3,same as the affiliate leagues. Did anyone really crave learning about the VHL on a weekly basis? Besides, the answer was usually "Scotty Campbell". 

[Nykonax 1,550]

2 hours ago, Dil said:

I’ve said this a couple time before, but I think that moving trivia to the portal would make it a lot better.

 

On the portal, a system could be implemented where the trivia head occasionally adds a few questions into a pool of questions. Then, anytime (once a week) that someone wants to attempt trivia, two questions that they have never attempted before will be randomly chosen from the pool. From then, they will have until the end of that week to answer the questions, and automatically get the TPE handed out.

 

It stops the answers from being shared out to everyone when trivia is released and since there’s a pool of questions and random chance to get questions, it’ll be a while until people can “cheat” and create a database of answers, which can then be solved by replacing the pool entirely.

 

It also makes it a lot easier for the Trivia head, so instead of having to write in questions, verify, and then make payouts every single week, they can just enter a bunch of questions every once in a while.

idk if its still a thing but you also got 1 uncapped tpe for submitting a trivia question. Could add that to the portal too where like x times per season you can submit a question on the portal (with the correct answer, how to find it, and like fake options) and the trivia head could approve/deny it.

[Beketov 8,639]

1 hour ago, diamond_ace said:

I would also posit that trivia when finding the answers yourself is the hardest TPE on the site by a mile

I’d argue that’s an exaggeration. People assume it’s harder than it is and don’t bother trying since someone will be around with the answer soon. There’s the odd question here and there that’s tough but otherwise there’s only a few select places where the answers exist so they aren’t hard to find. 9/10 times you don’t need to leave the HoF forum.

[v.2 1,260]

2 hours ago, BOOM said:

Similar to STZ, it was virtually free TPE anyway. Make PF worth 2 and vhl. Com submissions worth 3,same as the affiliate leagues. Did anyone really crave learning about the VHL on a weekly basis? Besides, the answer was usually "Scotty Campbell". 

Best suggestion I’ve seen yet imo… increase the .coms to 3 per (but obvi require more words for articles, and more effort than just a logo swap for gfx).

[Garsh 1,079]

1 hour ago, v.2 said:

Best suggestion I’ve seen yet imo… increase the .coms to 3 per (but obvi require more words for articles, and more effort than just a logo swap for gfx).

Is there any worry that if we get to high standard for the gfx that we push people out who are trying to learn and still want to get something even if it's not the full 6?  I actually don't see a stickied post on guidelines in the supplemental gfx area like there are for most other point tasks, but I feel like we need to have a pretty open bottom end on graphics for the supplemental task.

 

Edit: Wanted to add I don't think we should get rid of trivia

Edited October 7, 2021 by Garsh

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

No reason to axe it - having to actually work/earn your TPE died in like 2014.

 

If we're going to keep everything easy to earn, at least trivia makes you learn interesting things.

[a_Ferk 760]

Making tasks harder is not a good idea for retention

[Nykonax 1,550]

48 minutes ago, Garsh said:

Is there any worry that if we get to high standard for the gfx that we push people out who are trying to learn and still want to get something even if it's not the full 6?  I actually don't see a stickied post on guidelines in the supplemental gfx area like there are for most other point tasks, but I feel like we need to have a pretty open bottom end on graphics for the supplemental task.

 

Edit: Wanted to add I don't think we should get rid of trivia

vhl.com is just smaller stuff like jersey swaps/player cards, i pretty much approve any .com graphic especially if its from new people, even on the main graphic pts im lenient if they're new, but obviously need to show SOME improvement over time