MiniFubbles Ep. 15 - Is Back-claiming Affiliate 12 Even A Thing?

[MubbleFubbles 1,190]

https://anchor.fm/mubble-fubbles/episodes/MiniFubbles-Ep--15---Is-Back-claiming-Affiliate-12-Even-A-Thing-e1n5kul

 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0HTogSSEcdOcKZKRb1RA2k?si=Nlo3uzWnQfCIKenQMbSHgw

 

Thread I refer to in the podcast is here

 

 

[Spartan 3,997]

Honestly, I don't think it's ever come up during my time as an updater that we should deny those affiliate backclaims just for not being claimed in the current week. With affiliate PT claims, we're mainly just checking to see that it was claimed for the proper week (when the task was done), or that it reasonably lines up with when they would have claimed that same task in the affiliate league. That also seems to be the exact same standard in both the EFL and SBA in regards to how they handle VHL affiliate claims. With affiliate 12's, we treat them like they are in positions of doing work weekly to earn their pay, just in their specific league. Those folks are considered critical to those leagues, like Adrest who is listed as a commissioner in the SBA. Due to the role's responsibilities, they inherently fall under the "claiming the TPE during the appropriate week for when the task was done" no matter when the claim is.

 

We have cracked down on other jobs trying to claim TPE without doing the work like VSN. Every claim of 8 requires that the member have a link to their work and is explicitly approved to be claiming VSN pay (either by being hired full-time or being a contributor who meets VSN standards). 

 

Perhaps I'm partial to the fact we bypass that old rule about affiliate claims since I benefit from having the same flexibility in the EFL/SBA where I certainly don't remember to claim my TPE at the cutoff each week. They recognize that I am fairly busy throughout the week doing my best in my role here in the VHL and grant the flexibility to back claim in their leagues despite not having a consistent weekly presence on their forums. I do my best to check in my LRs as my teammates there can attest to, and I know Adrest does as well since he was a Moscow prospect on his last player and would check in weekly to get his tasks done and TPE spent.

 

We'll probably have to change that post that I doubt literally anyone looks at anymore due to the automation on the portal, considering I don't think that rule has been applied to block anyone's TPE since I've been in the league. Hope the explanation is sufficient!

Edited October 3, 2022 by Spartan

[MubbleFubbles 1,190]

7 minutes ago, Spartan said:

We have cracked down on other jobs trying to claim TPE without doing the work like VSN. Every claim of 8 requires that the member have a link to their work and is explicitly approved to be claiming VSN pay (either by being hired full-time or being a contributor who meets VSN standards). 

I understand how updating for VSN works, I was an updater for several seasons before you joined the league. I was talking about a specific example from the past where updaters weren't properly checking to see if VSN articles were being done and thus approving those claims without checks (There was one such example where a user claimed 11 weeks of VSN pay despite only having one 500 word article to show for it) and I don't think it was until I called it out in the updater forum that stuff like that started to get properly checked.

 

13 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Perhaps I'm partial to the fact we bypass that old rule about affiliate claims since I benefit from having the same flexibility in the EFL/SBA where I certainly don't remember to claim my TPE at the cutoff each week. They recognize that I am fairly busy throughout the week doing my best in my role here in the VHL and grant the flexibility to back claim in their leagues despite not having a consistent weekly presence on their forums. I do my best to check in my LRs as my teammates there can attest to, and I know Adrest does as well since he was a Moscow prospect on his last player and would check in weekly to get his tasks done and TPE spent.

 

We'll probably have to change that post that I doubt literally anyone looks at anymore due to the automation on the portal, considering I don't think that rule has been applied to block anyone's TPE since I've been in the league. Hope the explanation is sufficient!

I mean the explanation doesn't really do anything to suggest to me that this is the right course of action for the VHL to take. These people do undoubtedly do a job that does take a lot of time in their respective leagues but their reward for that is the fact that they can come on and claim the maximum amount of capped TPE in affiliate leagues with a single button press and no other activities required, but I don't see why they should be able to bypass what is the core principle of VHL activity since it's creation which is being on the site in a given week to earn TPE. Even more so because they are only required to spend one minute to claim all of their respective TPE over here. I don't understand why people who dedicate hours per week to the VHL should be retrospectively equaled in capped TPE by people who visit once every six weeks. 

 

I guess the other issue is that this feels like a situation that updaters have decided for themselves what the ruling is rather than actually following league policy (which I'm gathering officially would still be what is written in that post since I haven't seen otherwise). Shouldn't questions be asked when stuff that they're unfamiliar with is being claimed rather than taking claims for granted and just doing them? 

[Spartan 3,997]

2 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

I understand how updating for VSN works, I was an updater for several seasons before you joined the league. I was talking about a specific example from the past where updaters weren't properly checking to see if VSN articles were being done and thus approving those claims without checks (There was one such example where a user claimed 11 weeks of VSN pay despite only having one 500 word article to show for it) and I don't think it was until I called it out in the updater forum that stuff like that started to get properly checked.

Not insinuating you don't know how it works, the situation you referenced was just exactly like what happened during your absence. I assumed you were somehow referencing to the incident I was around for which was my mistake. Either way, we're on the same page that claims require the work to be done for it.

 

4 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

I mean the explanation doesn't really do anything to suggest to me that this is the right course of action for the VHL to take. These people do undoubtedly do a job that does take a lot of time in their respective leagues but their reward for that is the fact that they can come on and claim the maximum amount of capped TPE in affiliate leagues with a single button press and no other activities required, but I don't see why they should be able to bypass what is the core principle of VHL activity since it's creation which is being on the site in a given week to earn TPE. Even more so because they are only required to spend one minute to claim all of their respective TPE over here. I don't understand why people who dedicate hours per week to the VHL should be retrospectively equaled in capped TPE by people who visit once every six weeks. 

It can go up for discussion if there's a pressing need but it just seems like the standard all three leagues are following regarding the affiliate 12 claims. All three leagues are fairly invested in each others' success considering how many users are able to enjoy each league due to affiliation. Personally I don't see a point in limiting the backclaiming of the members who keep each of the three leagues running, but I've already pointed out my own bias/conflict of interest there and won't go on with it.

 

10 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

I guess the other issue is that this feels like a situation that updaters have decided for themselves what the ruling is rather than actually following league policy (which I'm gathering officially would still be what is written in that post since I haven't seen otherwise). Shouldn't questions be asked when stuff that they're unfamiliar with is being claimed rather than taking claims for granted and just doing them? 

Updaters don't decide for themselves, we follow the directives of the Head of PT and Commissioners. We've discussed how affiliate-12's and backclaims can work extensively in the updater chat and this is where we're at with it. Sometimes things like that post just don't get updated since they're not part of the rulebook and just buried somewhere on the forums, I'll bring it up with the blues and try to get it fixed across forums.

[MubbleFubbles 1,190]

3 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Updaters don't decide for themselves, we follow the directives of the Head of PT and Commissioners. We've discussed how affiliate-12's and backclaims can work extensively in the updater chat and this is where we're at with it. 

OK that's my mistake, I took your first sentence from the first post "Honestly, I don't think it's ever come up during my time as an updater that we should deny those affiliate backclaims just for not being claimed in the current week." as that the matter of affiliate 12 backclaims hadn't been discussed previously.

Edited October 3, 2022 by MubbleFubbles

[JardyB10 4,834]

I can certainly get behind some level of backclaiming for a variety of reasons. For myself, I'm kind of a lazy updater. I'll do all or most of my weekly PTs here in the VHL, but I might not actually claim them for a couple of weeks after the fact. Naturally, I wouldn't be claiming the Affiliate PTs in the EFL the "week of" either.

 

The other thing is that the VHL's update week is Monday-Sunday while the EFL is Sunday-Saturday. So in a situation where I'm a slightly less lazy updater but still a lazy updater, I could be pwnd in a situation where I post a PT here on a Saturday, but don't claim it for updating until the next day. I don't think it would be reasonable for the EFL to deny my backclaim in a situation like that, or even if I backclaimed later the following week.

 

Mind you, interaction-wise, I'm not the most active person in either league. Here I'll do my PTs and maybe comment on some Podcasts. I'll drop by my LR occasionally on Discord. In the EFL I'll do their much easier equivalent of a PC every week and occasionally comment on games, and drop by EFL Discord LRs even less than my VHL LRs. That being said, I am participating in both leagues in as much of capacity as I comfortably can. So I would be pretty choked if my recent three weeks of backclaim in the EFL (and two weeks in the VHL) were denied. I don't know if I could properly function in either league without some amount of backclaim flexibility.

 

That being said, backclaiming a whole season of auto-12s when you don't even drop in for Practice Facility doesn't feel that great, and is definitely a janky extreme of the spectrum. So perhaps the solution could be to allow any/X amount of backclaiming as long as there's some sort of evidence of league participation. 

[MubbleFubbles 1,190]

24 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

I can certainly get behind some level of backclaiming for a variety of reasons. For myself, I'm kind of a lazy updater. I'll do all or most of my weekly PTs here in the VHL, but I might not actually claim them for a couple of weeks after the fact. Naturally, I wouldn't be claiming the Affiliate PTs in the EFL the "week of" either.

 

The other thing is that the VHL's update week is Monday-Sunday while the EFL is Sunday-Saturday. So in a situation where I'm a slightly less lazy updater but still a lazy updater, I could be pwnd in a situation where I post a PT here on a Saturday, but don't claim it for updating until the next day. I don't think it would be reasonable for the EFL to deny my backclaim in a situation like that, or even if I backclaimed later the following week.

 

Mind you, interaction-wise, I'm not the most active person in either league. Here I'll do my PTs and maybe comment on some Podcasts. I'll drop by my LR occasionally on Discord. In the EFL I'll do their much easier equivalent of a PC every week and occasionally comment on games, and drop by EFL Discord LRs even less than my VHL LRs. That being said, I am participating in both leagues in as much of capacity as I comfortably can. So I would be pretty choked if my recent three weeks of backclaim in the EFL (and two weeks in the VHL) were denied. I don't know if I could properly function in either league without some amount of backclaim flexibility.

 

That being said, backclaiming a whole season of auto-12s when you don't even drop in for Practice Facility doesn't feel that great, and is definitely a janky extreme of the spectrum. So perhaps the solution could be to allow any/X amount of backclaiming as long as there's some sort of evidence of league participation. 

 

To clarify, just cause I know some times while I'm driving I can miss out stuff or say the actual opposite word than what I mean for some reason, I'm perfectly fine with people who do VHL stuff in a given week claiming them in the portal a few weeks late cause they've at least got something present on the forum that shows they've been active on it. I'd also be fine with people who do say kinda the reverse of what you mention you do in the EFL, a Press Conference in the VHL after claiming an affiliate PT being able to back-claim it all cause like before, you at least have something that's demonstrated your activity on the forum. My issue is basically just limited to those who don't have any form of activity on the VHL in a given week claiming TPE for it, but I think pretty much everything that you say you do is OK with me!

 

I didn't actually know about EFL having a different claiming week, that's interesting. I just presumed everything in all three leagues was lined up the same after we adapted the 12 cap. 

 

And the last thing is basically my big point, I wouldn't have a problem at all if it was just the odd week or two of not dropping in but still back-claiming it (I've seen a few others do that), but the recent instances I've mentioned where it's been 5-6 weeks of back-claiming being allowed just strikes me as way too lenient. But yes, I'd be on-board with your idea that would hopefully mitigate that.

Edited October 3, 2022 by MubbleFubbles

[JardyB10 4,834]

28 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

To clarify, just cause I know some times while I'm driving I can miss out stuff or say the actual opposite word than what I mean for some reason, I'm perfectly fine with people who do VHL stuff in a given week claiming them in the portal a few weeks late cause they've at least got something present on the forum that shows they've been active on it.

Indeed, you didn't misspeak or broadly shit on lazy updating or anything like that, I was more just demonstrating that folks like myself can be lackadaisical in updating even in their "primary" sim league, so I can understand being even moreso in a less-committed league.

[Beketov 8,642]

1 hour ago, MubbleFubbles said:

I didn't actually know about EFL having a different claiming week, that's interesting. I just presumed everything in all three leagues was lined up the same after we adapted the 12 cap. 

We were for awhile, I have literally no idea why the EFL changed their week.

[oilmandan 686]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

We were for awhile, I have literally no idea why the EFL changed their week.

EFL changed their week cause their is a sim Sunday night for a presentation on Monday. Just makes it easier for the updaters and simmer

[Beketov 8,642]

16 minutes ago, oilmandan said:

EFL changed their week cause their is a sim Sunday night for a presentation on Monday. Just makes it easier for the updaters and simmer

You and your logic