Houston GM Punishment

[Spartan 3,997]

Hello,

 

As many of you may have seen by now, a user named Dack was banned for being a multi of formerly banned member Achilles.

 

However, we also learned through @AJW's own decision to step forward, that AJ knew who Dack was and did not report the illegal ban evasion to league staff - putting members of the community at risk to harm. The VHL appreciates when members come forward to report illegal activity, but also holds its GMs and league representatives to a higher standard than what occurred.

 

For this reason, AJW is being docked his GM pay for the remainder of S88. He will still be able to cap out at 12 each week, just without his 4 TPE GM pay.

 

- @VHLM Commissioner

[AJW 1,744]

Sorry to anyone this may have hurt. I had no bad intentions bringing Achilles back, they were great as Dack and Houston had no problems with them while they were here. 

[Spartan 3,997]

Just a follow-up point that if someone you know has been banned in the past and wishes to return to the league, please direct them to a moderator to facilitate the ban appeal process. That would be the most effective way to get someone back into the league if they're truly ready to follow the rules of the league.

[Baozi 1,635]

17 minutes ago, AJW said:

Sorry to anyone this may have hurt. I had no bad intentions bringing Achilles back, they were great as Dack and Houston had no problems with them while they were here. 

 

Modding hat aside. I'm not quite sure what you were thinking. Achillies was also "fine" for the earlier time he was here until he revealed himself to be a bigoted, racist hate speech person that he is. Not just here, but in multiple communities. In what world do you think that is ok to accept back into the community without asking anyone else if that was an advisable move? Why did you think someone that was permabanned for violation of major rules something alright to decide on your own?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Baozi

[Victor 10,534]

some might say this was AJ's Achilles heel

[frescoelmo 1,218]

Just now, Victor said:

some might say this was AJ's Achilles heel

 

no u

[AJW 1,744]

21 minutes ago, Baozi said:

 

Modding hat aside. I'm not quite sure what you were thinking. Achillies was also "fine" for the earlier time he was here until he revealed himself to be a bigoted, racist hate speech person that he is. Not just here, but in multiple communities. In what world do you think that is ok to accept back into the community without asking anyone else if that was an advisable move? Why did you think someone that was permabanned for violation of major rules something alright to decide on your own?

 

Well I didn't want to speak too much publicly on this but I'd rather just tell my side and move on from this.

 

So Achilles originally joined the league and my Houston Bulls two seasons ago. They loved it here and had a great start to the league. Achilles would always talk about his drinking problems and violence it brings. Whenever Achilles would be brought up for bad things in the league he would blame it on roleplaying and his drinking habits. When he got his first ban I wasn't upset at all, he was causing too much drama and needed to go. After that they reached out to me again seeing if an appeal could be put in place to bring them back. I asked the blues, they declined, Achilles went on his way.

 

So around the same time I think a bit after, I joined the ISFL. Met a really cool guy who was also in my rookie draft class and we had a really good time there. Turns out I get a DM and it is Achilles under a different name. I wasn't thrilled, I didn't really know what to do except be nice and respect them in the ISFL under their other name. Achilles started opening up more and more to me. Switching to the greens instead of the alcohol which I just recently did too by the way, so much less mental problems its amazing. I related to him in that way after having addictions of my own, so it was awesome to hear someone also trying to grow out of it. But anyways Achilles was growing my trust again. Our convos were always nice and supportive of eachother. As that ISFL season went on we slowly lost touch due to being more in our own LRs on different teams, so I didn't hear much else from Achilles since then.

 

Now skip to the present and a new member joins the league, willing to earn max tpe and be super active in the locker room. Me and Triller were pumped since we also got Slater to join too. We thought we had the magic waiver touch by bringing in two max earners. Then a week goes by and history repeats itself when Dack opened up to me about being Achilles. So I had two options here, give the guy a chance after the past two months we had building a bond, or tell the mods and kick him out. I'm sorry to say but I am a strong believer in second chances. You're not the same person as your past self if you're willing and wanting to grow, and Achilles was showing me this so I let him back in.

 

He was a pleasure to have in Houston. In our LR every day, max earning, making friends with the other players on our team. I can honestly say I have not had one bad experience personally with Dack, so it sucks to see all the damage he has brought to other members. I will fully take the blame for what I did, it wasn't the right thing to do and it could have potentially brought a lot of problems back to the league that don't need to be here. But I don't regret what I did, I still see the good in Dack, not Achilles, even if he can't return to the VHL. 

[Spartan 3,997]

1 minute ago, AJW said:

 

Well I didn't want to speak too much publicly on this but I'd rather just tell my side and move on from this.

 

So Achilles originally joined the league and my Houston Bulls two seasons ago. They loved it here and had a great start to the league. Achilles would always talk about his drinking problems and violence it brings. Whenever Achilles would be brought up for bad things in the league he would blame it on roleplaying and his drinking habits. When he got his first ban I wasn't upset at all, he was causing too much drama and needed to go. After that they reached out to me again seeing if an appeal could be put in place to bring them back. I asked the blues, they declined, Achilles went on his way.

 

So around the same time I think a bit after, I joined the ISFL. Met a really cool guy who was also in my rookie draft class and we had a really good time there. Turns out I get a DM and it is Achilles under a different name. I wasn't thrilled, I didn't really know what to do except be nice and respect them in the ISFL under their other name. Achilles started opening up more and more to me. Switching to the greens instead of the alcohol which I just recently did too by the way, so much less mental problems its amazing. I related to him in that way after having addictions of my own, so it was awesome to hear someone also trying to grow out of it. But anyways Achilles was growing my trust again. Our convos were always nice and supportive of eachother. As that ISFL season went on we slowly lost touch due to being more in our own LRs on different teams, so I didn't hear much else from Achilles since then.

 

Now skip to the present and a new member joins the league, willing to earn max tpe and be super active in the locker room. Me and Triller were pumped since we also got Slater to join too. We thought we had the magic waiver touch by bringing in two max earners. Then a week goes by and history repeats itself when Dack opened up to me about being Achilles. So I had two options here, give the guy a chance after the past two months we had building a bond, or tell the mods and kick him out. I'm sorry to say but I am a strong believer in second chances. You're not the same person as your past self if you're willing and wanting to grow, and Achilles was showing me this so I let him back in.

 

He was a pleasure to have in Houston. In our LR every day, max earning, making friends with the other players on our team. I can honestly say I have not had one bad experience personally with Dack, so it sucks to see all the damage he has brought to other members. I will fully take the blame for what I did, it wasn't the right thing to do and it could have potentially brought a lot of problems back to the league that don't need to be here. But I don't regret what I did, I still see the good in Dack, not Achilles, even if he can't return to the VHL. 

I'm happy to consider second chances as well, and I would hope the mods would be as well. But when there's a clear disregard to following a ban appeal process and breaking another rule regarding ban evasions, it doesn't show that much has been learned. Breaking rules is not being reformed.

[AJW 1,744]

9 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I'm happy to consider second chances as well, and I would hope the mods would be as well. But when there's a clear disregard to following a ban appeal process and breaking another rule regarding ban evasions, it doesn't show that much has been learned. Breaking rules is not being reformed.

 

Dack as Dack had a clean record here if I'm not mistaken. Just sucks to see someone who's doing good things lose all future opportunities because of their past behaviour. I'm not arguing his ban, I just do believe he didn't mean to cause anymore harm.

Edited March 27, 2023 by AJW

[Baozi 1,635]

You know this isn't even the second chance? Howmany chances would you like? Do you know how recent his last infractions were elsewhere? SHL recently banned banned him in January. His twitter was filled with hate speech in December. Did you even do your due diligence when dealing with Achillies? There have been 4 (5th including this one) incidents regarding him, I'd show you what he DMed some of the staff in december, but I don't feel the need to rehash any or want to post those messages. He has not ever shown any remorse for his actions at all. If you notice this convertsation, you see that he "blames it on" external factors and doesn't even take into consideration his own actions.

 

Or its really simple, he was just conning you so that you would help him get back into these communities. How do you know anything he said you was even true?

[Baozi 1,635]

5 minutes ago, AJW said:

I just do believe he didn't mean to cause anymore harm.

 

Did he tell you about his recent ban Jan 2023 for transphobic and generally toxic comments in SHL? That was his second chance already at SHL, so if you want to combine all of these incidents he has well over 7-9 incidents with multiple chances.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Baozi

[AJW 1,744]

1 minute ago, Baozi said:

 

Did he tell you about his recent ban Jan 2023 for transphobic and generally toxic comments in SHL?

 

I don't understand why you feel the need to question me publicly in front of the whole community. We obviously have different point of views on Achilles and if you'd like to discuss them then my DMs are open.

[Baozi 1,635]

1 minute ago, AJW said:

 

I don't understand why you feel the need to question me publicly in front of the whole community. We obviously have different point of views on Achilles and if you'd like to discuss them then my DMs are open.

 

Well as indicated, I wanted to know what the thought process was and if you actually looked into what he said or you just took it at face value. As to why I asked in public and not DMs, is because it is a public matter and if the general public is going to be put in possible risk of having to deal with people like this, they deserve to know as well.

[AJW 1,744]

Just now, Baozi said:

 

Well as indicated, I wanted to know what the thought process was and if you actually looked into what he said or you just took it at face value. As to why I asked in public and not DMs, is because it is a public matter and if the general public is going to be put in possible risk of having to deal with people like this, they deserve to know as well.

 

You're the only one asking right now. DM me if you want.

[twists 276]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

For this reason, AJW is being docked his GM pay for the remainder of S88. He will still be able to cap out at 12 each week, just without his 4 TPE GM pay.

 

- @VHLM Commissioner

Isn't this only like a week lmao

[Spartan 3,997]

Just now, twists said:

Isn't this only like a week lmao

 We're just a week into S88

[Baozi 1,635]

1 minute ago, AJW said:

 

You're the only one asking right now. DM me if you want.

 

My concern is for the general public community, not for my own being. I have no desire to hide this conversation anywhere. I would like to know why you felt you were in best position to decide this course of action was the best for the community and what you would think if you were wrong and sometime down the road another incident occurred.  I mean you're not obligated to answer since I'm just inquiring as a member of said community.

[twists 276]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

 We're just a week into S88

well i don't know how to count ok

[frescoelmo 1,218]

8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 We're just a week into S88

@twists REKT

[twists 276]

22 minutes ago, AJW said:

 

You're the only one asking right now. DM me if you want.

Tbf Fong isn't asking anything that isn't totally valid. It's what I was thinking while I read the entire thread. We have mods/blues/etc in power for a reason. They're the ones who are allowed to make decisions about allowing people back into the community. Why did you think you had that power in this case?  

 

It's a hard and uncomfortable question, but does deserve an answer. 

 

Fong has a tendency to come off very strong/aggressive when questioning people, so I don't blame you for your reaction to his line of questioning. However, I'd also like to hear your answer to that question.

 

edit: I said question like 82 times in this post

Edited March 27, 2023 by twists

[Ricer13 2,592]

What AJW did was wrong but he did come forward and is serving his punishment for his actions.

 

He is being publicly shamed enough for what he did so let’s not pile on and make ourselves look like the bullies here. 
 

If you have a question about how he handled the situation and want to better understand it then do so by reaching out to him and having a conversation with him 1 on 1 like an adult.

[Spartan 3,997]

I've spoken to Fong about how this thread has gone, I think the M commissioners handled this appropriately after the mod process finished. AJ has been spoken to privately. I think it's clear to all where he went wrong and he understands too. If you have questions, go listen the new Babymetal album and forget you had any . Or just DM me/Gus or mods if you have anything you'd like to discuss. 

[Ricer13 2,592]

@AJWThis is a great learning experience for you dude. 

 

It’s important to bring these situations to the appropriate people when they happen. What Achilles did was wrong and it affected a number of people in this league. It isn’t for just one person to decide whether he is given a second chance or not. Your reasoning behind it doesn’t matter to me. What matters is that you learn from it and make the right choice if the situation ever occurs again in the future.
 

 

[frescoelmo 1,218]

Slide into my DM's if you have any issues

[Spartan 3,997]

2 minutes ago, frescoelmo said:

Quote me here in this thread if you have any issues

@Moon won't give me pick 3 for peanuts, can you moderate him please