Molholt 2,183 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Making records untouchable =/= fun Sim leagues are supposed to = fun :/ 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, Molholt said: Making records untouchable =/= fun Sim leagues are supposed to = fun :/ 2 cents Most records were already untouchable anyway. If anyone thinks they were ever catching Scotty your dreaming. In the best modern league conditions O'Malley was the closest we got and he was still off by a large margin. The league was just so different then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,183 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Devise said: Most records were already untouchable anyway. If anyone thinks they were ever catching Scotty your dreaming. In the best modern league conditions O'Malley was the closest we got and he was still off by a large margin. The league was just so different then. So change that. You want people to invest in their players? Give them something to work towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, Molholt said: So change that. You want people to invest in their players? Give them something to work towards. Or because honoring the players that came before is a classy move, how about we start a new record books post any changes that make us do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,183 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, Devise said: Or because honoring the players that came before is a classy move, how about we start a new record books post any changes that make us do so? I don't want to bust my ass so that at the end of the day I have more TPE than a welfare guy, or more attributes than a welfare guy - I'm motivated to bust my ass for TPE when I can make a legitimate shot at being the best at something. Hell, Max hit pretty damn high in some categories and he's a footnote to the same guy who rigged his way to the top of the league nearly a decade ago. Why are we catering to (some) members who haven't been here in years? You know how you honor past players? The Hall of Fame. You know where those players are? The Hall of Fame. You know how often some of them see it, or the records - Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop 3,254 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, Devise said: Or because honoring the players that came before is a classy move, how about we start a new record books post any changes that make us do so? Honor players that came before by making sure their records can't be touched even if it's detrimental to the league? I get that I'm taking a bit of a leap, but my comment is directed more at the people whose argument against extending careers was "Scotty's records" Will, Bushito and Da Trifecta 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,183 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 You want a new member to be motivated to stick around? Tell him he can be the best damn hockey player the Victory Hockey League has ever seen. Not that if he busts his ass and tries really, really hard and puts in YEARS of work that he might be a Top 50 player of all-time. DollarAndADream and Bushito 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Molholt said: I don't want to bust my ass so that at the end of the day I have more TPE than a welfare guy, or more attributes than a welfare guy - I'm motivated to bust my ass for TPE when I can make a legitimate shot at being the best at something. Hell, Max hit pretty damn high in some categories and he's a footnote to the same guy who rigged his way to the top of the league nearly a decade ago. Why are we catering to (some) members who haven't been here in years? You know how you honor past players? The Hall of Fame. You know where those players are? The Hall of Fame. You know how often some of them see it, or the records - Never. Okay so how do the modern day goalies feel about us skewing with everything so that forwards like yourself can break records that happened due to the league just starting? Because we'd have to skew with A LOT to get that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop 3,254 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Devise said: Okay so how do the modern day goalies feel about us skewing with everything so that forwards like yourself can break records that happened due to the league just starting? Because we'd have to skew with A LOT to get that to happen. EXTEND CAREERS The records are still unlikely to be touched even with players going 11 seasons, but it makes it at least seem a little bit possible. Da Trifecta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Streetlite said: Honor players that came before by making sure their records can't be touched even if it's detrimental to the league? I get that I'm taking a bit of a leap, but my comment is directed more at the people whose argument against extending careers was "Scotty's records" The records were already untouchable. I don't see how this change is an effort to make it so the records are more maintained. For the record I am in favor of 10 season careers and new records. But it's not like we can just hit a magic switch that makes it so all the players in the sim have a better chance at being the best of all time or something. So I don't really see what @Molholt argument is. Sure, it'd be great if new players could come in and have a good chance at being the best player of all time. How would you go about doing that in a balanced way that doesn't hurt the other players? Remember we can't define whether that player is a goalie, forward, defender etc. And if we do we skew it in favor of a specific player type and that isn't the answer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Admin Will 4,604 Posted February 23, 2017 Senior Admin Share Posted February 23, 2017 Well, I think you could easily just separate the records to at least post-expansion and that would be pretty fair. Devise, Jericho, DollarAndADream and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 No. Some people still reachs the career top 5 categories so no And if svokgaard can do 150 pts season, everything is possible lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushito 1,945 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I actually see the issue here and I think a couple of other issues as well. I think I have a mega proposal/media spot to write up tonight. This is going to be fun Devise, Higgins and Jericho 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) ^definitely bushito I'm kidding....AM I ???? Edited February 23, 2017 by boubabi solas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins 3,617 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Make Goalies Shit Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 8,642 Posted February 23, 2017 Commissioner Share Posted February 23, 2017 I'm all for extending careers and separating the record books at the same time. Like a reset on the records in S55 or something kinda thing however without that separation I don't like the logic of "fuck the records." Sure, new guys could win them, but how much does it really mean if we just change the rules every few years so that the records can be broken again? No one will ever touch Gretzky'sscoring records, does that mean they should restrict how much goalies can do so that players score more? Like I said, with something as major as extending careers I'm fine hitting the reset button on records do to speak and having pre / post S55 records. However I don't want to make it our intention to destroy them just because the past guys are gone. DollarAndADream 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,183 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Beketov said: I'm all for extending careers and separating the record books at the same time. Like a reset on the records in S55 or something kinda thing however without that separation I don't like the logic of "fuck the records." Sure, new guys could win them, but how much does it really mean if we just change the rules every few years so that the records can be broken again? No one will ever touch Gretzky'sscoring records, does that mean they should restrict how much goalies can do so that players score more? Like I said, with something as major as extending careers I'm fine hitting the reset button on records do to speak and having pre / post S55 records. However I don't want to make it our intention to destroy them just because the past guys are gone. Gretzky didn't rig the NHL tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Molholt said: Gretzky didn't rig the NHL tbh Speculative on your part tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,896 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Extend careers, make it so records can be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop 3,254 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The record books should be forsaken if it promotes progress for the league. No, I don't think we should actively seek to destroy them, but we should not let them stand in the way of discussing possible change. Bushito 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,724 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I'm not against having record books for "Post-Expansion". When TV analysts use statistics they will often tell you in the "Post Expansion Era" so and so killed this record book. I also understand though that a league that is 50+ seasons old is going to have records that are high, I mean if you think thats wrong you don't know what 50 seasons can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage 2,769 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Go to 10 seasons. Da Trifecta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,124 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Post-expansion records seem to be a good idea. comparing VHL players now to players like Scotty is like trying to compare NHL players from 50 years ago. The league as a whole is much more competitive now, especially with TPE being more easily available. Edited February 23, 2017 by Corco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho 917 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 In the BoG discussions I suggested separating the record books if we do length of career increases. That just makes sense. @Streetlite who used records as a way to halt progress in discussion? I missed it, but did anyone even agree, because that's dumb AF. Hitting a random "reset" on records would be stupid, but if someone said to do something that we all agreed was positive and the only thing a neigh-sayer could come up with was "records" I don't think anyone would take thems seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop 3,254 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Jericho said: In the BoG discussions I suggested separating the record books if we do length of career increases. That just makes sense. @Streetlite who used records as a way to halt progress in discussion? I missed it, but did anyone even agree, because that's dumb AF. Hitting a random "reset" on records would be stupid, but if someone said to do something that we all agreed was positive and the only thing a neigh-sayer could come up with was "records" I don't think anyone would take thems seriously. Any time there is discussion about extending careers, one of the main arguments against it is "Scotty's records" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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