der meister 2,903 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I always hated that the top d-man award only considers the guys with heavy point totals. Just because a guy lines up at the blueline doesn't mean he can find his own end of the ice without a sherpa. Unsung roleplayer types should get their moment of glory and be recognized individually. If you put up 300 hits and 100 blocked shots in a season, you're making a very significant contribution to your team's success. I didn't crunch the numbers, but let's say that the average shooting percentage of a VHLer is 8%. If a defender blocks 100 shots, that's 12.5 goals prevented in a season. When you look at hits, the generally accepted rule is 1 of every 4 hits generates a turnover, so that's 75 turnovers a season for my hypothetical player, or better than 1 a game. Yeah, it's not a sexy award, but @BOOM gets all of the sexy awards anyway. Kesler, BOOM, Corco and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Baozi 1,635 Posted March 20, 2017 Head Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2017 Wow another Karlsson hater der meister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der meister 2,903 Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, tfong said: Wow another Karlsson hater I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 8,639 Posted March 20, 2017 Commissioner Share Posted March 20, 2017 Personally I'm all for killing the sportsmanlike award and replacing it with a top offensive D award. That way we separate the two categories rather than arguing over which is more relevant. Jericho and Da Trifecta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,896 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, Beketov said: Personally I'm all for killing the sportsmanlike award and replacing it with a top offensive D award. That way we separate the two categories rather than arguing over which is more relevant. This is probably the best solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooningitup 1,290 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) #Thekomarovaward Edited March 20, 2017 by Gooningitup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Beketov said: Personally I'm all for killing the sportsmanlike award and replacing it with a top offensive D award. That way we separate the two categories rather than arguing over which is more relevant. I'd rather do this than create an award purely for defensive defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglesfan036 4,583 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Fire Hakstol said: I'd rather do this than create an award purely for defensive defenseman. someone is scared by nick grossman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, eaglesfan036 said: someone is scared by nick grossman *Grossmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der meister 2,903 Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Just now, Fire Hakstol said: *Grossmann *Grosssmannnnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Discussion got really deep on this, but part of our issue is just trying to define it stats based. I know @sterling had some thoughts on it that I agreed with at the time in the BoG discussion. But if I recall correctly there was also a group of people who felt that it'd be to loosely defined. I've always been of the opinion that a Top Offensive D award should factor in points with goals taking precedent over assists in close match ups) and hits also playing a minor factor. Then with Top Defensive you have hits and shots blocked being most important with a low hits taken and then of course some points to help determine. The issue is shots blocked goes to rebuilding clubs always. So you can't really gauge it. Even in a world with giveaways/takeaways our influx of rebuild versus not presents issues that as of yet we haven't been able to find a way to overcome. With award voting being taken a bit more seriously now I believe we should still explore it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgehog337 3,480 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I'm all for making defensive stats more relevant for an award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Is there even a way to look at the shot metrics and the analytics in the sim? I am all for an award for top defensive defensemen but I feel it would be mainly based around +/- and hits unless there's a a way to look at more advanced stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,990 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I think we'd have to base the award on hits, +/-, and overall goals allowed/shots allowed, penalty kill minutes and PK % (but I think it would be an easy award to decide most seasons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 agrd cuz jeff hamilton getting exposed BAD in the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,990 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Pablo said: Is there even a way to look at the shot metrics and the analytics in the sim? I am all for an award for top defensive defensemen but I feel it would be mainly based around +/- and hits unless there's a a way to look at more advanced stats. http://vhlsim.net/VHL53/VHL53-ProTeamStats.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, sterling said: http://vhlsim.net/VHL53/VHL53-ProTeamStats.html @Pablo How long have you GM'd here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, sterling said: http://vhlsim.net/VHL53/VHL53-ProTeamStats.html 1 minute ago, Devise said: @Pablo How long have you GM'd here? I was talking about Player/shot metrics. Not team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Just now, Pablo said: I was talking about Player/shot metrics. Not team. You mean more than shots for, shooting percentage and shots blocked? Which all show up in the stats? Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Devise said: You mean more than shots for, shooting percentage and shots blocked? Which all show up in the stats? Please explain. No, I'am talking about corsi and all the shots against while on ice, shots suppressed while on ice, shots generated and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pablo said: No, I'am talking about corsi and all the shots against while on ice, shots suppressed while on ice, shots generated and all that. Yeah no we have none of that. The sim doesn't track who is on the ice at a given time other than if they are involved in some play. So we have no idea about line changes mid play or anything like that. Technically we have shots suppressed, provided it's a shot block. Shots generated only get tracked a bit obviously provided that the shot hits the net, since if an opposition player blocks the shot we have zero clue who is the one who shot the puck they blocked. STHS isn't perfect by any means. Hence why it's been so long for us to try to find a good way to incorporate awards like this. But what we have is still workable, it just requires us to look at stats relative. If a defender leads the league in shots blocked on a stacked team who gave up few shots its probably impressive for example. But if one leads the league in shots blocked on a team that faced the most shots in the league by a large margin, then we have to consider the how relative that is to other stats. It's not impossible to decipher though, as generally there is only one or two players each way that skew stats like that. Kesler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gudnason 607 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I still don't understand how the unnamed QUE LW1s can get on the ice and score when they are not on any of the four lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 minute ago, punkhippie said: I still don't understand how the unnamed QUE LW1s can get on the ice and score when they are not on any of the four lines. Even though are players are set to max endurance it's impossible for them to play the whole game. Since we don't have full rosters often when a player on a line gets subbed for stamina reasons the sim will determine that the freshest players are CPU. It's why teams with 3 d or five forwards have a bit more CPU time than those with more even if they aren't set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gudnason 607 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, Devise said: Even though are players are set to max endurance it's impossible for them to play the whole game. Since we don't have full rosters often when a player on a line gets subbed for stamina reasons the sim will determine that the freshest players are CPU. It's why teams with 3 d or five forwards have a bit more CPU time than those with more even if they aren't set. So we should have project third and project fourth! But seriously thanks for the explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop 3,254 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 16 hours ago, der meister said: *Grosssmannnnn *Grossssssmannnnnnnnnn der meister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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