Remove the Auto 99 Endurance Stat

[Beaviss 4,949]

Hey guys im bored and @StamkosFan fan reminded me of how much I dislike the 99 Endurance.

 

To start my discussion I'm going to start with Beau as an example. I also recognize that I am a TPE whore so this might not be the same as everyone.

 

Beau is on his 3rd season in his career. He also was created at the draft so a little later in his draft class than normal. If you look at his stats he is getting close to being a top tier TPE player on only his 3rd season. I'm getting close to thinking about starting to bank for depreciation and that's 3 seasons away. Having the auto 99 endurance is just another stat that I don't have to touch because its free.

 

If we removed the auto 99 Endurance we would see the following with this small change.

1. Increased build diversity

2. high stats wont mean auto high playing time.

 

With my talks with Simon T the creator of the engine he has stated that the engine was never developed to have 99 in stats regularly. Because of this fact I'm a believer that the less 99 stats the better. If we ditched the auto 99 Endurance it would force players to invest in the stat lowering the overall TPE spent in other areas.

It would also stop whats happening with Beau. Being close to complete before his 4th season in the league.

 

Just spitballing here lets here some arguments for and against it.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Beaviss

[Baozi 1,635]

I'm down with this.

 

Also this is a paid advertisement post.

Edited December 28, 2018 by tfong

[Nykonax 1,550]

Yea I agree

 

Now send nudes Beav

[hedgehog337 3,480]

idk if some lower tier welfare players or just non TPE whore players would be ok to play even less minutes than in crowded VHLM teams now cause of this stat.

 

might be a decent idea if this won't make a too big gap between these two type of players

[Josh 1,597]

I agree, I guess the main problem is how we would handle a switch. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

3 minutes ago, Reives said:

I agree, I guess the main problem is how we would handle a switch. 

 

%age of total tpe earned goes into the stat automatically for current players

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Beaviss

[Baozi 1,635]

5 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

%age of total tpe earned goes into the stat automatically for current players

 

 

It'll be hell for updaters but i could get behind this.

[Josh 1,597]

Would also require portal work to enable the display and update of that stat. Almost trivial but takes a while to push it through.

[Beaviss 4,949]

2 minutes ago, Reives said:

Would also require portal work to enable the display and update of that stat. Almost trivial but takes a while to push it through.

 

could be a possibility for next season

[Josh 1,597]

Just now, Beaviss said:

 

could be a possibility for next season

 

I don't really see any other issues. Mainly just GMs having to be more cognizant of roster sizes and that's mainly just a minor's thing. 

[ShawnGlade 1,002]

I see everyone with it, but I dunno if I like it. It's already hard enough for VHLers to increase other stats. This is just another barrier

[Tagger 2,722]

I can't really give an opinion on this until we properly researched the effect that endurance has to the sim, which obviously requires testing. For example, one concern I have from what I've looked up about the issue is that for goalies, loss of fatigue is in relation to the amount of shots that a goalie faces, so does that mean that (usually young) goalies on rebuilding teams that face 40/50 shots per game are going to play like complete ass? That doesn't sound fun. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

7 minutes ago, Tagger said:

I can't really give an opinion on this until we properly researched the effect that endurance has to the sim, which obviously requires testing. For example, one concern I have from what I've looked up about the issue is that for goalies, loss of fatigue is in relation to the amount of shots that a goalie faces, so does that mean that (usually young) goalies on rebuilding teams that face 40/50 shots per game are going to play like complete ass? That doesn't sound fun. 

 

Valid thoughts. We could have goalies start at a higher base endurance? maybe 50?

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

No.

 

The entire framework of the VHL is built on smaller roster sizes (I.E. 6F/4D/1G) and one of the main points is that in the VHL, everyone gets a large amount of playing time. I dont believe it is a positive to force members into less playing time and/or less productive playing time just to have another stat to update.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

Ya hard pass, only way this works is if we are a deeper league. Problem being a deeper league means we would have to change the season limit. Because no one will wanna barely play for 3 seasons play 2 at a high level then start the crash. 

 

We are running 6F 4D 1G at best for all teams. Which means taking away lower endurance, means less effective player, or players playing less to dress cpus or inactives to help wins. 

 

It also have an effect on juniors are your capped so ud have to waste TPE on endurance that takes away from your overall build.

 

This litterly i think would force more than just a simple stat change. 

[Tagger 2,722]

1 hour ago, Beaviss said:

 

Valid thoughts. We could have goalies start at a higher base endurance? maybe 50?

But like my point above, it seems like we don't really know anything about how the endurance attribute works in the sim, and while that's the case speculating figures is pointless.

 

I am also inclined to agree with Flyers and Gooning as well in that our league's systems are geared towards a 6F/4D league with anything else considered a bonus, which doesn't really fit with an endurance attribute.

 

Also a point regarding Louth, you were Season 61, we've had three seasons already, so first season of depreciation is only 2 seasons away, not 3. Don't know if that affects your viewpoint on your current attributes and needing to save for regression and what not. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

1 minute ago, Tagger said:

But like my point above, it seems like we don't really know anything about how the endurance attribute works in the sim, and while that's the case speculating figures is pointless.

 

I am also inclined to agree with Flyers and Gooning as well in that our league's systems are geared towards a 6F/4D league with anything else considered a bonus, which doesn't really fit with an endurance attribute.

 

Also a point regarding Louth, you were Season 61, we've had three seasons already, so first season of depreciation is only 2 seasons away, not 3. Don't know if that affects your viewpoint on your current attributes and needing to save for regression and what not. 

 

not really

[Will 4,600]

I think reducing it to 40 would be extreme. Since it effects ice-time, I don't think it makes sense to have people start off at the same place as CPU players. 

 

But I think a balance could probably be struck where it doesn't screw lower TPE players over but gives all players something else to work towards (more ice time). Something like 75 or so. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

1 minute ago, Will said:

I think reducing it to 40 would be extreme. Since it effects ice-time, I don't think it makes sense to have people start off at the same place as CPU players. 

 

But I think a balance could probably be struck where it doesn't screw lower TPE players over but gives all players something else to work towards (more ice time). Something like 75 or so. 

 

Im a fan

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

No thanks. That is way too low. Maybe if some research and testing was done for 75-80 and it didn't completely ruin things, that would be fine. If we did that, just keep goalies to the 99 endurance. They already have to split time and lose out on 8 games as it is so they would be fine. With catering to the 6F/4D/1G roster, it's going to be hard to tell someone who don't have the time or patience to update their endurance that they can't play in a certain spot they deserve because their endurance is low. Again not 100% disagreeing but would like to see some stats on a 75 or 80 for endurance for skaters and leave goalies at 99.

[omgitshim 898]

6 hours ago, Tagger said:

I can't really give an opinion on this until we properly researched the effect that endurance has to the sim, which obviously requires testing. For example, one concern I have from what I've looked up about the issue is that for goalies, loss of fatigue is in relation to the amount of shots that a goalie faces, so does that mean that (usually young) goalies on rebuilding teams that face 40/50 shots per game are going to play like complete ass? That doesn't sound fun. 

 

I haven't looked at goalie attributes at all but if they already have more to build up than skaters leaving them at 99 probably wouldn't be an issue.

 

7 hours ago, hedgehog337 said:

idk if some lower tier welfare players or just non TPE whore players would be ok to play even less minutes than in crowded VHLM teams now cause of this stat.

 

might be a decent idea if this won't make a too big gap between these two type of players

 

It could just be a VHL only thing and VHLM'ers can start with 99 then drop down to 75 or whatever once they are called up. Still anything should be tested before any changes go into effect.

[Tagger 2,722]

6 hours ago, omgitshim said:

 

I haven't looked at goalie attributes at all but if they already have more to build up than skaters leaving them at 99 probably wouldn't be an issue.

It depends on what type of player a skater would want to make really. E.g. If I wanted to make a physical two-way center, I'd have to add quite a bit more TPE than a max goalie would, but if I wasn't a center and also didn't want to put up a lot of hits, a max goalie would have to put in quite a bit more TPE to hit their aims in comparison to the skater. For the most part though yes, goalies do have to earn more than skaters , in part because of the skaters deliberately holding off maxing some attributes since they effect their players decision making, something which  doesn't really apply to goalies. 

[Victor 10,522]

13 hours ago, Beaviss said:

 

not really

I'm in the same boat as you (even more so as the draft class TPE leader), but there's always leadership you can max out  

[Beketov 8,638]

3 hours ago, Tagger said:

in part because of the skaters deliberately holding off maxing some attributes since they effect their players decision making

I wonder if that’s why I’ve always been terrible. Always forget to do that haha

[Ahma 1,284]

oh god no! horrible idea.