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Vasteras: Yes or No? [1/2]

Should we bring back Vasteras?  

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It wasn't just sim voodoo though. Pensfan was just as linked to Vasteras as any member, and it long felt like from the older members I talked to that despite him never being the teams GM, that it was his team. There was also a real life Vasteras IK team if I recall that Pensfan was a big fan of. It all just felt very in service of a small base of members and ultimately those in charge and the larger community felt a different Swedish city deserved to be represented. 

 

Yeah sure the sim voodoo and league hate carried things. But I maintain that we shouldn't be the type of league that just caters to a clique or a group of members because. That doesn't mean that that group still can't be catered to regardless, but you pretty much have to consider the validity not just of the optics of said city but also the overall league interest in it. I mean there is a similar conversation going on regarding potential new teams as it is. Some are okay with more goofy teams, in say China or Japan and some aren't. For the record I'm down with seeing one of those cities because I think we have all the other bases pretty much covered. But if the optics are what they are, then it's one of those things where I'd have to recognize that a larger portion of the league still wants teams somewhere else and disregarding that just to cater to the few of us who are down with the unusual spots is exactly pulling a Vasteras. 

 

It's still a "community at large" and there is generally always a way to satisfy the group interest as well as specific ones. 

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14 hours ago, Devise said:

It wasn't just sim voodoo though. Pensfan was just as linked to Vasteras as any member, and it long felt like from the older members I talked to that despite him never being the teams GM, that it was his team. There was also a real life Vasteras IK team if I recall that Pensfan was a big fan of. It all just felt very in service of a small base of members and ultimately those in charge and the larger community felt a different Swedish city deserved to be represented. 

 

Yeah sure the sim voodoo and league hate carried things. But I maintain that we shouldn't be the type of league that just caters to a clique or a group of members because. That doesn't mean that that group still can't be catered to regardless, but you pretty much have to consider the validity not just of the optics of said city but also the overall league interest in it. I mean there is a similar conversation going on regarding potential new teams as it is. Some are okay with more goofy teams, in say China or Japan and some aren't. For the record I'm down with seeing one of those cities because I think we have all the other bases pretty much covered. But if the optics are what they are, then it's one of those things where I'd have to recognize that a larger portion of the league still wants teams somewhere else and disregarding that just to cater to the few of us who are down with the unusual spots is exactly pulling a Vasteras. 

 

It's still a "community at large" and there is generally always a way to satisfy the group interest as well as specific ones. 

 

Pensfan was Vasteras' original GM. You can say it's in service to a small member base, that's fine, but at the end of the day, it's part of the lexicon of the league. Whatever Pensfan's intentions when he originally picked the team, the current legion of Vasteras truthers don't feel the way they do because they like the real-life Vasteras team, they like VHL Vasteras.

 

While the yielding to the crowd argument has merit, I hate that that's what it comes down to in sim leagues. Every league has a New York, every league has a Toronto, and so on. Every poll done for new locations finds people defer to similar options. It sucks for someone like me who gets bored of seeing the same locations in every league that deferring to mass acceptance makes league location selection often cookie cutter. The VHL has been good about that in the past (Davos, Mexico City, etc.), and while Malmo could stand as another unique selection, it was ultimately justified as being one of the biggest Swedish markets (and effectively locking Vasteras out as a future location for a VHL team again, wish I would've realized that one sooner).

 

All in all I really hope the next round of VHL expansions brings something unique to the table. For the NA, there are a few locations that I feel are due for a team (Boston, Chicago), but with the way the EU is currently structured there's definitely room for something interesting, like a Polish team.

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4 hours ago, .sniffuM said:

The VHL has been good about that in the past

Does any other league currently have a European Conference? I feel like that is unique enough and then Vasteras was just going out of the way to be even more niche for what is already niche for a NA-centric league.

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1 minute ago, Victor said:

Does any other league currently have a European Conference? I feel like that is unique enough and then Vasteras was just going out of the way to be even more niche for what is already niche for a NA-centric league.

 

But if the EU conference is just used for big European markets than it really doesn't add that much uniqueness imo. That feeling could partially be because I've been here a long time so the sheen of having European teams could have worn off.

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1 hour ago, .sniffuM said:

 

But if the EU conference is just used for big European markets than it really doesn't add that much uniqueness imo. That feeling could partially be because I've been here a long time so the sheen of having European teams could have worn off.

If something is the only thing of its kind I think it’s pretty unique lol

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On 7/19/2019 at 10:12 AM, Beketov said:

They won the cup in S1 (potentially via shady means but nothing was ever proven) and then proceeded to have a 25 season cup drought and I think only win like 1 other after that. In a lot of ways they were the laughing stock of the league which gave them a poor reputation and made people resistant to playing for them. They were thus relocated but to a very dumb place (Madrid) and were subsequently moved back a few seasons later which kinda just made it worse because it made them even more of a joke that even moving couldn’t fix them. Eventually they were moved again and became the Stockholm Vikings who did a bit better at getting people on boats but no better sim wise and the team remained more or less cursed before eventually being, effectively, contracted when we went back down to 8 teams.

 

Basically people just liked to laugh at them and they’ve had 2 chances in the VHL to prove that stigma wrong and a VHLM stint as well. At this point bringing them back is just a bad look because it’s been a failed experiment so many times already.

Also, Stockholm and to a lesser extent Malmo just make more sense as Swedish locations. There's a reason Moscow isn't Ulan-Ude or Magnitogorsk, Riga isn't Liepaja or Piebalga, Helsinki isn't Oulu or Rovaniemi (although we did have Turku in the minors for a bit).

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2 hours ago, Victor said:

If something is the only thing of its kind I think it’s pretty unique lol

 

And you're allowed to think that way, just like I'm allowed to think it's not enough.

 

1 hour ago, diamond_ace said:

Also, Stockholm and to a lesser extent Malmo just make more sense as Swedish locations. There's a reason Moscow isn't Ulan-Ude or Magnitogorsk, Riga isn't Liepaja or Piebalga, Helsinki isn't Oulu or Rovaniemi (although we did have Turku in the minors for a bit).

 

I'd personally find that a lot more interesting. I will admit again that locations like Helsinki and Riga were very interesting to me when I first joined (part of it was I had never heard of them, I was like 12). Magnitogorsk sounds like a god damn awesome location to put a team.

 

I think it's been well documented over the years that I'm not happy unless I have something to be unhappy about, don't pay any mind to me shouting at clouds (except for bringing Vasteras back of course). :P

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2 minutes ago, .sniffuM said:

 

And you're allowed to think that way, just like I'm allowed to think it's not enough.

 

 

I'd personally find that a lot more interesting. I will admit again that locations like Helsinki and Riga were very interesting to me when I first joined (part of it was I had never heard of them, I was like 12). Magnitogorsk sounds like a god damn awesome location to put a team.

 

I think it's been well documented over the years that I'm not happy unless I have something to be unhappy about, don't pay any mind to me shouting at clouds (except for bringing Vasteras back of course). :P

Magnitogorsk is where Metallurg Magnitogorsk plays, the team Malkin left to come to the Pens

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12 hours ago, .sniffuM said:

 

Pensfan was Vasteras' original GM. You can say it's in service to a small member base, that's fine, but at the end of the day, it's part of the lexicon of the league. Whatever Pensfan's intentions when he originally picked the team, the current legion of Vasteras truthers don't feel the way they do because they like the real-life Vasteras team, they like VHL Vasteras.

 

While the yielding to the crowd argument has merit, I hate that that's what it comes down to in sim leagues. Every league has a New York, every league has a Toronto, and so on. Every poll done for new locations finds people defer to similar options. It sucks for someone like me who gets bored of seeing the same locations in every league that deferring to mass acceptance makes league location selection often cookie cutter. The VHL has been good about that in the past (Davos, Mexico City, etc.), and while Malmo could stand as another unique selection, it was ultimately justified as being one of the biggest Swedish markets (and effectively locking Vasteras out as a future location for a VHL team again, wish I would've realized that one sooner).

 

All in all I really hope the next round of VHL expansions brings something unique to the table. For the NA, there are a few locations that I feel are due for a team (Boston, Chicago), but with the way the EU is currently structured there's definitely room for something interesting, like a Polish team.

To be totally transparent though...when I was told I was going to be the Expansion GM, there were discussions about Cologne returning and Stockholm (even if under a different name) and it was made pretty clear that there was zero interest from the Blue Team to return to any former city or of course reviving any former team.

 

There were even some concerned about putting a team in Sweden in the first place.

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31 minutes ago, Advantage said:

To be totally transparent though...when I was told I was going to be the Expansion GM, there were discussions about Cologne returning and Stockholm (even if under a different name) and it was made pretty clear that there was zero interest from the Blue Team to return to any former city or of course reviving any former team.

 

There were even some concerned about putting a team in Sweden in the first place.

 

Yeah, definitely not saying there was some ulterior motive behind Malmo being a Swedish team, more saying that by having a Swedish team a side-effect is that there won't be another Swedish team, thus shutting the door completely on Vasty.

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Stumbled across this thread through a link somewhere else, but this actually is a decent insight into the last days of Vasteras: https://vhlforum.com/topic/4741-vascol-s36/

 

 

People were basically starting to get fed up with the same franchise making the same mistakes chasing a cup, which they did from S1 to S26 and reverted right back to doing the same in S26 (not helped by having a GM for 10 seasons who had an overly optimistic view of VHL draft depth).

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12 hours ago, .sniffuM said:

 

Yeah, definitely not saying there was some ulterior motive behind Malmo being a Swedish team, more saying that by having a Swedish team a side-effect is that there won't be another Swedish team, thus shutting the door completely on Vasty.

I guess what I'm saying is even if there wasnt the door is shut already by our current leadership group.

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