Update on SBA Partnership

[Beketov 8,642]

Update on SBA Partnership

 

Yesterday morning the VHL received notice from the heads of the SBA that stated, in no uncertain terms, that the affiliation partnership we once had will never be returning. While we here in the VHL tried our hardest to get the partnership back it is ultimately not a 1 way street and the decision could not be made solely by us. We regret having this happen of course but it is the decision that has been made and we must live with that.

 

With that said, we have honoured SBA point tasks as welfare for months now and will continue to do so. Affiliation does not need to pass both ways for us to do this and we do not wish to punish those members that rely on it in order to enjoy multiple leagues. With that said, unfortunately, 1 change is necessary. Effective immediately the claiming of the full 12 cap for SBA staff is being removed. While we recognize this may affect a few it is ultimately something we were leaving in place in good faith hoping to have the partnership one day renewed. Since that will not be happening we do not think it fair to our members to be allowing staff of another league to claim pay when they do not wish to honour our previous agreement. 

 

Anyone who has claimed this pay from the SBA within the last 4 weeks will be authorized to have it be used as a Regular affiliate welfare claim (6 TPE) instead of the full cap in future weeks. We offer this as a show of good faith to those members that have been actively participating in both leagues recently and continue to do so.

 

 EFL affiliation claims of all varieties remain unchanged.

 

Thank You,

@Commissioner

@BOG

[Gustav 6,098]

Was there any reason that was given for this in particular?

[Beketov 8,642]

3 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

Was there any reason that was given for this in particular?

I won't quote the full message for privacy sake but the closest we received to a reason was:

 

Quote

There is no road to a future partnership.

 

and 

 

Quote

I'm not attaching my name to your site. It's not a reflection that I want on me.

 

[Doomsday 4,034]

Their loss. 

[Quik 4,113]

Yeah, it's unfortunate that it's come to this, but SBA has made it clear they no longer wish to affiliate, and aren't open to further discussions. Should that change, I think we'd be more than open to finding something amenable to all parties, but we will no longer be reaching out to try and salvage a relationship with an unwilling participant.

[FrostBeard 1,975]

It is surely sad. That said, I feel that still allowing SBA posts is a great gesture and I am hopeful people will still use it actively. 

I do have to say that SBA has overreacted quite heavily to the situation as I have stated before. This would have been resolved by a simple conversation and a civil discussion that some don't want to have. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by FrostBeard

[jhatty8 662]

RIP

 

hope it can happen someday...

[TheFlash 317]

SBA sucks anyway

[frescoelmo 1,218]

2 hours ago, Beketov said:

I won't quote the full message for privacy sake but the closest we received to a reason was:

 

 

and 

 

 

 

 

This sounds like a personal vendetta TBH 

 

Good for us if this singular decision maker perceives the league this way

 

[LastOneUp 160]

As a noob, I don't even know what SBA is. So I won't miss it. 

[LittleRiDog 17]

Interesting, hopefully it returns one day

[CowboyinAmerica 2,708]

The unfortunate part, this makes my only threepeat in VHL history meme rather sad and unusable.

[Advantage 2,769]

Good decision.  Sad it came to this but clearly nothing will change Molholt's mind as we wont fit his "business" goals for his dictatorship.

[Kyle 667]

Someone wanna DM me what the issue was that started this? 

[Beketov 8,642]

Just now, Kyle said:

Someone wanna DM me what the issue was that started this? 

No need to DM, it’s quite public:

 

All started here and then Very quickly escalated

[Molholt 2,183]

Here's the full message:

 

Quote

Beketov,

 

As the owner of the SBA, we have no interest or desire to re-open any further discussions surrounding affiliation. There is no road to a future partnership. Let's save both sides the time and call it what it is - done. We're fine with that. You're fine with that.

 

I'm not attaching my name to your site. It's not a reflection that I want on me.

 

Unless I sell the SBA, that will be my stance. I've got no issues with you, but this partnership is not in our best interests.

 

Thanks,

 

Molholt

 

---

 

If you'd like further context, there have been a handful of discussions that have happened - I've stayed out of them for the most part and let the BOD handle them, or the people that Beketov has reached out to. With that being said, we've gone in circles for a few months, like Beketov said, and I never saw anything that warranted a serious revisit of our decision. So I decided to save everyone the time. 

 

Let's be honest - there is no partnership here, and there wasn't before. We weren't working together - we were just giving people credit for being on the other site. I championed the partnership to begin with in the hopes of building something bigger than all of our individual leagues, a true community and not just a collection of separate parts. We're focusing on actual partnerships that benefit both sides. 

 

The VHL made a lot of good decisions in the aftermath of the split and I commend them for that. But, Beketov is being a bit disingenuous to say that we didn't come to actually discuss the situation. We were clear about the things we saw as issues and were repeatedly told that identifying them meant we weren't willing to negotiate. Well, that's just not true. We just thought, given the situation, that people shouldn't be going around the VHL's own code of conduct and continuing to make a mockery of the entire situation. 

 

In fact, I sent this message as a direct response to a message we received from Beketov, in which he expressed a similar sentiment. Specifically, he said "I think it might just be time to accept our differences and say we’ll revisit this far down the line but right now it just doesn’t seem likely. I don’t like it but I can’t keep knocking just to have a door slammed in my face and I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume everyone is gonna play nicely when they are constantly told it’s not enough and isn’t going to be." For context: a couple of SBA admins had identified a number of members (including VHL admins) continuing to mock the SBA and our position around the use of slurs as problems we wanted to resolve before resuming any sort of affiliation. As I understand it, Bek asked to be notified of instances when this occurred.

 

SBA admins pointed out these instances and received the above response (original is much longer), which essentially told us that doing what he had asked meant we'd clearly never change our decision (again, not true). Given that this type of "discussion" has been going on for months, I agreed that it wasn't worth either side's time. We felt like the VHL shouldn't have administration publicly shitting on a potential partner, Beketov thought that was unreasonable to ask. That's why we are where we are.

 

I'm not here to admire my handy work @Beketov, just providing some context for those curious. As a member with a HoF player, a spectacular run as GM (a three-peat, the first and only of it's kind) and long-time relationships with a lot of the members here (some of which aren't even in the SBA), my goal was never to sever this relationship for some personal issues. I'd have thought better of those of you who seem to believe that. I've built and ran leagues with @Doomsday and you Bek. I got my start in leagues with @Advantage. I guess your opinion of me is much lower than mine was of you. I'm sorry to hear that. 

[Enorama 1,980]

3 minutes ago, Molholt said:

Unless I sell the SBA

 

[solas 1,946]

I like and respect a lot of people a lot of people over there (and still have absolutely no problems with the SBA in general) so it’s kinda disappointing to see as I was hoping this would get resolved.  Sucks that the situation is beyond repair.

[Kyle 667]

9 minutes ago, Beketov said:

No need to DM, it’s quite public:

 

All started here and then Very quickly escalated

 

Hm, alright.

[Beketov 8,642]

Really lovely way to white wash the situation and act as if everything is on us, not that I'm surprised. I'm not fighting anymore, I'm done fighting. I'm done being told that you won't even discuss anything with me unless we basically fire parts of our staff, I'm done with you insinuating that we're shitting all over you despite that only starting after you severed ties with us and I'm done with you deciding what meets your criteria for content in a league you have no control over. We tried to improve ourselves, you didn't care. We tried to have good faith conversations, you didn't care. So yes, am I upset at all this? I am. You never once came to talk to me, despite my asking. All you ever wanted to do was search SBA on the discord and see what dirt you could dig up as evidence. The members of the VHL should not have to live under a microscope.

 

If you wanted more of a partnership you could have had it. You didn't want that. You wanted control and you wanted to dictate how the VHL acts and who it hires. You made it clear, we're done here. You guys didn't want ti back from the start unless you got to dictate every single term and control every single decision. Until we met exactly what you wanted you wouldn't even talk to us. So yeah, you got what you wanted. Not sure why you dragged us along for 6 months to be honest.

 

P.S

15 minutes ago, Molholt said:

For context: a couple of SBA admins had identified a number of members (including VHL admins) continuing to mock the SBA and our position around the use of slurs as problems we wanted to resolve

 

That's not what my response was to. Specifically it was to being told 

 

Quote

For the record, because you ask for details when this gets brought up every now and again, things like members of your staff and admins (Victor, Josh, etc.) shitting on SBAO a couple of days ago publicly

 

I went and looked it up. @Josh was pointing out your coding language was old and poking fun at that but not mocking the site itself, @gorlab was making a feature request based off SBAO and @Victor was basically just confused by what was happening but was responding for the lols. If that's what counts as shitting on your site then you need to get your priorities straight and understand the difference between discussion and mocking.

[Beketov 8,642]

18 minutes ago, Molholt said:

I guess your opinion of me is much lower than mine was of you. I'm sorry to hear that. 

For the record, it never was until you made it so. I'm not sure what kind of power trip you're on but this isn't the man I once worked with. I haven't seen him in the past 2 years at least. Enjoy running the league I once helped save and I'll enjoy running the league you once called home.

[oilmandan 686]

For a league that apparently has no time or care for the VHL, their BOD sure spend a lot of time over here. That's all I'm gonna say

[Molholt 2,183]

eh, nvm. What's done is done. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Molholt

[Beketov 8,642]

5 minutes ago, Molholt said:

eh, nvm. What's done is done. 

Better attitude choice.

 

We could argue back and forth all day but ultimately this hasn't been handled well, period. No one is perfect and neither league is innocent but at this point it's a rift that seems unlikely to close. I regret that as much as anyone but there's no point in arguing over it. I'll do my best to calm the troops.

[hedgehog337 3,480]