HOT TAKE: Secondary Simmers

[Motzaburger 1,590]

Before we get all defensive, outraged, and let emotions take over: Devise and Bek, and anyone else who is or has simmed, thank you and we love you - this isn't an attack!  

 

Problem: Simmers have lives too, like the rest of us (?), and sometimes they are busy and unable to sim (this is not a new problem). 

Solution: Create a back-up simmer positions (yes, plural) for the VHL and the M for instances when primary simmer cannot sim. 

 

Example with new Secondary Simmer positions: No sims in the M for two days, but VHL gets sims on two separate occasions (with a 20 hr gap between). 

Primary simmer away or busy? Sends secondary simmers a message: "I am busy for the weekend, can somebody sim for me on Friday, Saturday, Sunday?"

Secondary Simmer #1: "No I am busy too, I will only be able to do Sunday."

Secondary Simmer #2: "Yes, I am home and I can do the Friday and Saturday sims. I can do Sunday if that makes it easier for you Secondary Simmer #1?"

Secondary Simmer #1: "I'll for sure be home so I got it Sunday."

Secondary Simmer #2: "Ok, great!"

Primary Simmer: "Thanks guys! This way we keep sims consistent and get them to the greedy bastard members each day."

Secondary Simmer #1 & #2: "LOLOL"

 

Solution details:

Hire two Secondary Simmer positions. They cover both leagues,  and most importantly, regularly communicate with the Primary Simmers for absences. 

The Secondary Simmers receive 1-2 TPE pay only if they end up simming (i.e., if the Primary Simmer is absent). 

The Secondary Simmer who actually does the process of simming, gets the pay - rotate with the other Secondary Simmer on each occasion (to be enforced by the Primary Simmer). 

 

 

Let's be realistic and sensible: WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY AND MANY MEMBERS WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO FILL THIS ROLE. There is no sensible reason why we can't fulfill sims each day. 

 

These positions would also create a small paying jobs to include more of the active members, as well as give the Secondary Simmers to provide their services for the WJC, the World Cup, and the Commissioners' Cup (and more nutty ideas we can come up with!). 

 

Real solutions to real problems. 

 

 

[Rayzor_7 741]

7 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

Solution details

We have this; Quik and Josh

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, Rayzor_7 said:

We have this; Quik and Josh

Well since they are in several other jobs we should yeet them cause it not working. The league is the one who said they don't want people to have too many jobs. This will give 'newer' and job-seeking folks something to have instead of giving 3-4+ jobs to the leagues staff imo. 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 minute ago, Motzaburger said:

Well since they are in several other jobs we should yeet them cause it not working. The league is the one who said they don't want people to have too many jobs. This will give 'newer' and job-seeking folks something to have instead of giving 3-4+ jobs to the leagues staff imo. 

 

How is it not working?

[Dil 1,744]

Just now, Motzaburger said:

Well since they are in several other jobs we should yeet them cause it not working. The league is the one who said they don't want people to have too many jobs. This will give 'newer' and job-seeking folks something to have instead of giving 3-4+ jobs to the leagues staff imo. 

You can't really give 'newer' members a simmer job.

 

It has to be someone who is trusted, and usually why admins are the only people allowed to be simmers. Simming isn't just clicking a few buttons its a job where you need download and upload things to and from places im sure the blue crew don't want regular people to have access to.

 

+ an added cost (which isn't much of an issue from what we've heard )

[Motzaburger 1,590]

Just now, flyersfan1453 said:

 

How is it not working?

 

Why defensive? People have lives and they are busy for days at a time. It's a fact. Sims don't happen for days (the example I mentioned above is currently happening). It's not a new pattern. Sims don't happen all the time and we can fix that and keep them more consistent this way  

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 minute ago, Motzaburger said:

 

Why defensive? People have lives and they are busy for days at a time. It's a fact. Sims don't happen for days (the example I mentioned above is currently happening). It's not a new pattern. Sims don't happen all the time and we can fix that and keep them more consistent this way  

 

I'm not being defensive, I asked what the problem was.

 

I don't see a single 48 hour gap between sims as a problem. Would it have been nice if Devise let one of the current back up simmers know he might need cover this weekend? Sure. Should sims be daily? For the most part, yes...but going 2 days without sims is not the end of the world. And this applies for VHL and VHLM as well.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

2 minutes ago, Dil said:

You can't really give 'newer' members a simmer job.

 

It has to be someone who is trusted, and usually why admins are the only people allowed to be simmers. Simming isn't just clicking a few buttons its a job where you need download and upload things to and from places im sure the blue crew don't want regular people to have access to.

 

+ an added cost (which isn't much of an issue from what we've heard )

 

That's why I put 'newer' in brackets for the blues up top since everybody is 'newer' to them. Jobless or partially jobless members that have been around for a while and are willing and looking to do this. 

 

Also it's only an added cost when the Primary Simmer would be away in this scenario. 1-2 TPE to keep the league running should not be a problem. Giving out 20+ TPE for a donation drive and theme week back-to-back is an added cost (especially since staff is pushing for less uncapped and less TPE overall). 1-2 for a few people here and there, capped as job pay of course, to keep the league rolling is negligible. 

[Dil 1,744]

6 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

That's why I put 'newer' in brackets for the blues up top since everybody is 'newer' to them. Jobless or partially jobless members that have been around for a while and are willing and looking to do this. 

Being “partially jobless” ,“jobless”, or “willing” doesn’t really affect if you are trustworthy enough to be given access to the places you need, to be a simmer.

 

6 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

 

Also it's only an added cost when the Primary Simmer would be away in this scenario. 1-2 TPE to keep the league running should not be a problem. Giving out 20+ TPE for a donation drive and theme week back-to-back is an added cost (especially since staff is pushing for less uncapped and less TPE overall). 1-2 for a few people here and there, capped as job pay of course, to keep the league rolling is negligible. 

Added cost as in: paying real life money for the sim license.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dil

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, flyersfan1453 said:

 

I'm not being defensive, I asked what the problem was.

 

I don't see a single 48 hour gap between sims as a problem. Would it have been nice if Devise let one of the current back up simmers know he might need cover this weekend? Sure. Should sims be daily? For the most part, yes...but going 2 days without sims is not the end of the world. And this applies for VHL and VHLM as well.

 

If your patient and only come on every few days, great! All the power to you!

 

The tech is easy. We have the communication platforms. Like I said initially there is no sensible reason for us to not be able to have sims daily. Saying "it's not the end of the world" is not a reason. If it is, let's just use this for everything. Miss your wedding day? Not the end of the world. Miss birth of your child, well it's not the end of the world. 

 

There is just no sensible argument to not have daily, consistent sims

 

 

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, Dil said:

Being “partially jobless” ,“jobless”, or “willing” doesn’t really affect if you are trustworthy enough to be given access to the places you need to be a simmer.

 

Added cost as in: paying real life money for the sim license.

Obviously trustworthy people would be picked Dil............

 

And if we have license for our current, yet non-existing unofficial Secondary Simmers (who have a bunch of league jobs already), just take their licenses away. Easy. 

[Dil 1,744]

3 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

Obviously trustworthy people would be picked Dil............

Of course but you said:

 

20 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

instead of giving 3-4+ jobs to the leagues staff imo.

And the problem being:

 

the only people trusthworthy enough to have access to the places a simmer needs are staff. So, if we were to hire more simmers, they would come out of the of the staff team.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dil

[Rayzor_7 741]

3 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

And if we have license for our current, yet non-existing unofficial Secondary Simmers (who have a bunch of league jobs already), just take their licenses away. Easy. 

Licenses are bought by the individual. I have an STHS license myself.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

23 minutes ago, Rayzor_7 said:

We have this; Quik and Josh

 

Also Quik is just not around as much anymore to be reliable in this role. And Josh has other jobs in the league and is now a VHL GM which is a pretty darn big conflict of interest.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, Dil said:

Of course but you said:

 

And the problem being:

 

the only people trusthworthy enough to have access to the places a simmer needs are staff. So, if we were to hire more simmers, they would come out of the of the staff team.

Staff are the only trustworthy people? Seems like staff are the most to get bans and punishments so that's just not a true statement. You're basically saying anyone on this site without a job is untrustworthy. 

[Motzaburger 1,590]

3 minutes ago, Rayzor_7 said:

Licenses are bought by the individual. I have an STHS license myself.

To add: if the league can blow $250+ on bad logos, why can't they do STHS licenses for $20/year?

[Dil 1,744]

1 minute ago, Motzaburger said:

Staff are the only trustworthy people? Seems like staff are the most to get bans and punishments so that's just not a true statement. You're basically saying anyone on this site without a job is untrustworthy. 

Notice how I said:

 

4 minutes ago, Dil said:

trusthworthy enough

 

-and not that people without jobs are "untrustworthy".

 

Yes, you have to trust people when giving them league jobs, but giving them a simmer job is a whole different ball game. Giving someone a simmer job, you are putting the integrity of the league at stake, since they have to power to resim as much as they like to get the results they want. People on staff are people who have been here long enough to prove that they are

6 minutes ago, Dil said:

trusthworthy enough

to be a simmer, whereas the average member with a job is not.

[Snussu 117]

I think some of you are missing the point. Motza did not mean new users when he said 'newer' he meant ppl who are already part of the community and want to do it.

 

Giving people sims every day  is great for everyone. Keeps us engaged. I personally find it frustrating when during weekends when you expect the sims most you dont get any because simmer is busy. Here is where a 2nd simmer who can do it once in a while is perfect.

 

I think every team in the league has someone who has the sim and license already and are willing to continue it. Giving 1 or 2 tpe when they sim isent going to collapse the ecosystem and inflate the tpe. 

 

If you think its hard to find trustworthy people then interview all the canditates, maybe even train them. That is how you earn trust. You cannot see someone trustworthy if you havent interacted with them before. Here is also where the COMMUNICATION comes in handy rhat Motza was talking about.

Thank you. Get a 2nd simmer and pull your heads from your asses

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, Dil said:

Notice how I said:

 

 

-and not that people without jobs are "untrustworthy".

 

Yes, you have to trust people when giving them league jobs, but giving them a simmer job is a whole different ball game. Giving someone a simmer job, you are putting the integrity of the league at stake, since they have to power to resim as much as they like to get the results they want. People on staff are people who have been here long enough to prove that they are

to be a simmer, whereas the average member with a job is not.

 

Obviously that is an issue with any simmer not just potential new Secondary Simmers. As well, that is another problem for it's own thread that has been brought up countless times: streaming sims to ensure there isn't anything funky going on (like we do for playoffs - and I'm not saying this is happening). So if this is more important to you, make your own suggestion thread for "Trusworthiness and Integrity of Simmers". 

[Garsh 1,079]

14 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

Saying "it's not the end of the world" is not a reason. If it is, let's just use this for everything. Miss your wedding day? Not the end of the world. Miss birth of your child, well it's not the end of the world. 

 

What an absurd statement to make.

[Victor 10,525]

19 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

If it is, let's just use this for everything. Miss your wedding day? Not the end of the world. Miss birth of your child, well it's not the end of the world. 

That is an absurd argument. Sim league =/= anything you just said.

 

Hyperbole probably isn't your best course of action here.

 

That said, I don't think there's a major trust issue, I'm sure this is something that can be discussed. I don't follow the VHLM so haven't been aware of any delays, in the VHL I have seen Josh sim when required at very short notice. So the process is clearly working in the VHL, if it is just a case of ensuring the VHLM gets the same treatment then I'm sure that can be sorted. No need to get aggressive about it.

[Snussu 117]

4 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

 

Obviously that is an issue with any simmer not just potential new Secondary Simmers. As well, that is another problem for it's own thread that has been brought up countless times: streaming sims to ensure there isn't anything funky going on (like we do for playoffs - and I'm not saying this is happening). So if this is more important to you, make your own suggestion thread for "Trusworthiness and Integrity of Simmers". 

I think this is good idea. Setting up and streaming STHS is super easy and quick. Since the sim in itself doesnt take very long ether.

[Dil 1,744]

Ignore this, didn’t quote properly

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dil

[Dil 1,744]

7 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

 

Obviously that is an issue with any simmer not just potential new Secondary Simmers. As well, that is another problem for it's own thread that has been brought up countless times: streaming sims to ensure there isn't anything funky going on (like we do for playoffs - and I'm not saying this is happening). So if this is more important to you, make your own suggestion thread for "Trusworthiness and Integrity of Simmers". 

Don’t need to, because all simmers are admins. If this were to change and we allow regular community members to sim then of course “Trustworthiness and Integrity of Simmers” would need to be brought up.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

1 minute ago, Victor said:

That is an absurd argument. Sim league =/= anything you just said.

 

Hyperbole probably isn't your best course of action here.

 

That said, I don't think there's a major trust issue, I'm sure this is something that can be discussed. I don't follow the VHLM so haven't been aware of any delays, in the VHL I have seen Josh sim when required at very short notice. So the process is clearly working in the VHL, if it is just a case of ensuring the VHLM gets the same treatment then I'm sure that can be sorted. No need to get aggressive about it.

 

Not absurd at all. There can't be reasons of "end of the world" or "you members are just greedy for sims". I know a sim league is not real life, but we all live real lives so I am providing examples. If the reasons for not having consistent sims are this unreasonable, it's not unreasonable to use examples to get the point across imo.

 

And only posting here in as a thread because this is what I am told to do to get things discussed in BoG or with staff because "Discord is not the place to bring problems". I'm not seeing how it's aggressive Vic. It it's coming off that way, well some things need to be changed sometimes and I am using the only means I have to do it