Snussu 117 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Dil said: Don’t need to, because all simmers are admins. If this were to change and we allow regular community members to sim then of course “Trustworthiness and Integrity of Simmers” would need to be brought up. I think even if simmers are admins the sims should be streamed. We are all humans and humans can get greedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Dil said: Don’t need to, because all simmers are admins. If this were to change and we allow regular community members to sim then of course “Trustworthiness and Integrity of Simmers” would need to be brought up. So having a GM sim his own league is ok then? Because he's admin so it's cool. No issues there. No conflicts. That is a issue for every job Dil. Simmers more so. With Vic's suggestions above it would be a quick fix and this becomes a non-issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Snussu said: I think even if simmers are admins the sims should be streamed. We are all humans and humans can get greedy And more power = more chances of abuse of power. Spread the jobs around, get them sims on streams. Easily solution to get consistent sims. Perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Motzaburger said: So having a GM sim his own league is ok then? Because he's admin so it's cool. No issues there. No conflicts. Never said that. I personally don't think simmers should be GMs, but they should have to be admins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dil said: Never said that. I personally don't think simmers should be GMs, but they should have to be admins. Either way, Vic's and Snuss' streaming solution is an easy way to avoid having these trustworthy problems and eliminates the "having to be admin" because the only reason you are arguin this is for an established member. Once again, most admins have several jobs and these jobs should be spread around and given to more people. Doesn't have to be an admin if it's streamed. Start stream, download index, download lines, sim, end stream. Nothing there that admins can only do. With a license and a streaming account, anyone can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Motzaburger said: Start stream, download index, download lines, sim, end stream. Start stream, download league rating file from portal staff HQ, download lines, sim, upload files using FTP with codes that access a place a regular member shouldn't have access to, end stream See underlined items to see which things are required to be done by an admin. probably got a few technical things wrong when it comes to simming, but the point still stands: you need access to admin only areas Edited June 14, 2020 by Dil Rayzor_7 and DollarAndADream 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Dil said: Start stream, download league file from portal staff HQ, download lines, sim, upload files using FTP with codes that access a place a regular member shouldn't have access to, end stream See underlined items to see which things are required to be done by an admin. Reveal hidden contents probably got a few technical things wrong when it comes to simming, but the point still stands: you need access to admin only areas Then give access to the newly hired or put those files in a new place only simmers can access? Easy solution. For example, make a simmer only discord channel and keep league file and those FTP things there - we could even stop emailing lines and just upload them to the simmers on discord idk. There is simple solutions for sharing files or making a place to share them without giving them admin permissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Motzaburger said: those FTP things there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Motzaburger said: Then give access to the newly hired or put those files in a new place only simmers can access? Easy solution. For example, make a simmer only discord channel and keep league file and those FTP things there - we could even stop emailing lines and just upload them to the simmers on discord idk. There is simple solutions for sharing files or making a place to share them without giving them admin permissions All that to give non admins the ability to sim when we could just leave it as it is because we have 4 simmers already who know what they are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaviss 4,949 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 We already have two backup simmers and devise and beke can sim each other leagues if need be. If Sims gets missed it was a lack of communication on our part. Tldr: we already have this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Dil said: All that to give non admins the ability to sim when we could just leave it as it is because we have 4 simmers already who know what they are doing? 2 Primary Simmers currently. No official Secondary Simmers. Yes Josh has covered and Quik. Josh is now going to be GM and will have several jobs. And let's face it, Quik is not around enough. Create official Secondary Simmer position so it's actually known who are the four recognized simmers. Hire 2 people. Create place to share files and ensure streaming accounts are good to go. Teach how to sim. If Primary Simmer busy, let Secondary Simmers know. Secondary Simmers will sim in that case and will only be paid when they sim. Done. It's as easy as that. Since we keep going in circles with your comments this is as simple as I can give it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Motzaburger said: No official Secondary Simmers. Josh and Quik ARE “official” secondary simmers. I also don’t get what you mean by Quik is not around enough because he’s been on literally every day. The problem it seems was devise didn’t tell people he wasn’t going to be around to sim, so they didn’t get done. Other times when the primary simmer says they won’t be around Josh and Quik cover. Rayzor_7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snussu 117 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Dil said: Josh and Quik ARE “official” secondary simmers. I also don’t get what you mean by Quik is not around enough because he’s been on literally every day. The problem it seems was devise didn’t tell people he wasn’t going to be around to sim, so they didn’t get done. Other times when the primary simmer says they won’t be around Josh and Quik cover. Doesnt seem official when you say "official" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Beaviss said: We already have two backup simmers and devise and beke can sim each other leagues if need be. If Sims gets missed it was a lack of communication on our part. Tldr: we already have this. If this is the case then why is this a consistent pattern of inconsistent sims and no one there to be the Secondary Simmer? Communication should be on the simmers parts and no one else tbh. And Bek already knows we have missed sims and didn't sim? The amount of poor excuses and beating around the problems coming from the top end of the league is quite appalling these days. If we have this in place, then why does no one know? Why is the problem not being solved? Why does the problem keep happening? Why do I have a large number of players for the past four season (and not the same players) asking me all the time why this is a problem? Why do I always feel like when I bring problems to anyone, the real issues get ignored because the focus is going somewhere else? Let's make the league better when we can there are issues being raised (this may possibly be the 1st time it's been put in the suggestion section). Enough of the "I don't care what anyone else thinks" attitude. Edited June 15, 2020 by Motzaburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 8,642 Posted June 15, 2020 Commissioner Share Posted June 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Motzaburger said: If this is the case then why is this a consistent pattern of inconsistent sims and no one there to be the Secondary Simmer? I would hardly say there is a consistent pattern. This happens maybe once or twice a season at most. So in an 8 week period you might get 2 days without super consistent sims. I’d hardly say that’s a pattern. Devise already said he’s going to double sim tonight to make up for it, he announced that awhile ago. If it isn’t done by morning I’ll do it myself. This is a problem with solutions already in place. I get the concern but I just don’t appreciate, and I’m sure neither would @Devise, the implication that the most consistent simming the league has ever had is a “pattern of inconsistency”. Jubis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 8,642 Posted June 15, 2020 Commissioner Share Posted June 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Motzaburger said: And Bek already knows we have missed sims and didn't sim? Also it’s my weekend too, I’m busy. I simmed mine. Devise tends to sim later than me so I’m giving him that chance. Like I said, if he doesn’t then I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 "Consistent Pattern". I didn't miss a single VHL sim last season, and I literally missed one other sim this season as I had one sim up at like 2 am my time that wound up being a double sim besides that. Calm down now folks let's not act unreasonable for no reason. The back ups can sim at their discretion, and if there was a serious issue or pattern they would. Dil and Rayzor_7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Beketov said: I would hardly say there is a consistent pattern. This happens maybe once or twice a season at most. So in an 8 week period you might get 2 days without super consistent sims. I’d hardly say that’s a pattern. Devise already said he’s going to double sim tonight to make up for it, he announced that awhile ago. If it isn’t done by morning I’ll do it myself. This is a problem with solutions already in place. I get the concern but I just don’t appreciate, and I’m sure neither would @Devise, the implication that the most consistent simming the league has ever had is a “pattern of inconsistency”. Read post 1. This is not an attack. This is a way to make sure that when there is times like this (once or twice a season using your example) we're covered and ready to go. Especially important in the M. New members & retention. Need I say more? This is supposed to be a discussion to set a legit plan in place and make sure we are covered. Great things have come out of it: streaming sims, giving people new jobs, making sure those days aren't missed (and if the Primary guys don't miss, that's great!) with a legitimate plan in place (i.e., someone whose job it is to cover and holds that responsibility as opposed to having someone cover if they notice or they get enough complaints) The current system can be improved and it's simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Devise said: "Consistent Pattern". I didn't miss a single VHL sim last season, and I literally missed one other sim this season as I had one sim up at like 2 am my time that wound up being a double sim besides that. Calm down now folks let's not act unreasonable for no reason. The back ups can sim at their discretion, and if there was a serious issue or pattern they would. Maybe that's not the right wording I used ("consistent"). However there is no harm on having official jobs and a process for when you're gone. And like I said, I'm not attacking you Devise, I'm just trying to find a solution for this when it does happen. It's not the worst to have an official plan in place. "Discretion" is not the answer to back up simming if we're being real here Edited June 15, 2020 by Motzaburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubis 1,282 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I cant speak for the M cause I dont currently follow it. This VHL season I have followed daily and the consistency has seemed flawless. I know for me personally the commitment @Beketov and @Devise are required to have, to sim daily would scare me. I appreciate what you guys do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Motzaburger said: Maybe that's not the right wording I used ("consistent"). However there is no harm on having official jobs and a process for when you're gone. And like I said, I'm not attacking you Devise, I'm just trying to find a solution for this when it does happen. It's not the worst to have an official plan in place. "Discretion" is not the answer to back up simming if we're being real here Except if it happens once or twice a season, it's not a problem, and doesn't need a solution. Dil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, flyersfan1453 said: Except if it happens once or twice a season, it's not a problem, and doesn't need a solution. Ahh yes, ignore problems and ergo they don't exist...unless it's "end of the world" ofc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just now, flyersfan1453 said: Except if it happens once or twice a season, it's not a problem, and doesn't need a solution. Exactly. @Motzaburger you're making something out of nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motzaburger 1,590 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dil said: Exactly. @Motzaburger you're making something out of nothing... Says DIL If there nothing why are people complaining? Why have people complained last 4+ seasons? Not a big problem albeit, and requires a not so big solution if every settled down and became realistic and sensible. Edited June 15, 2020 by Motzaburger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil 1,744 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Motzaburger said: Says DIL Ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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