HOT TAKE: Secondary Simmers

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Motzaburger said:

Ahh yes, ignore problems and ergo they don't exist...unless it's "end of the world" ofc

 

I think it's more of a "it's not a problem." I already had messages today from Blue ensuring that the sim would be going on today, on top of the message I posted in the index. In general a back up simmer will never cover on the day that may be missed, the day of unless it's a notified absence. So regardless of if a sim is missed, your still going to be waiting till the next day for a make up double sim in any cases where it's something where "life came up unexpectedly", such as in this instance. Then your waiting for either of the back up simmers to come on, notice the sim is missing and confirm it's okay for them to fill in. Ergo, make sure the actual simmer isn't already doing the back up sim. In a case like today it's very possible anyone who was going to do a back up came on saw my post in the index thread indicating a double sim was coming and felt the situation was fine as is. Ergo "their discretion" indicated that it wasn't a situation that was deemed worthy of being backed up. 

 

If any pattern were to persist ergo a day was missed regularly every week, or several times per month the rest of Blue and the backup simmers would bring it up when discussing who is simming what inbetween seasons. I'm not saying your intent isn't the right place, it's just that with the way we do our simming I don't really think it's a problem that once or twice a season on any side, from any simmer, we have a 24 hour period without a sim. All the track records since we've moved to this rotating sim schedule have shown this is the best solution and has helped with retention. Again your free to critique the system we use as you wish but just felt a little context might at least put your thoughts into perspective.

 

 

[rory 1,759]

  

7 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

I think it's more of a "it's not a problem." I already had messages today from Blue ensuring that the sim would be going on today, on top of the message I posted in the index. In general a back up simmer will never cover on the day that may be missed, the day of unless it's a notified absence. So regardless of if a sim is missed, your still going to be waiting till the next day for a make up double sim in any cases where it's something where "life came up unexpectedly", such as in this instance. Then your waiting for either of the back up simmers to come on, notice the sim is missing and confirm it's okay for them to fill in. Ergo, make sure the actual simmer isn't already doing the back up sim. In a case like today it's very possible anyone who was going to do a back up came on saw my post in the index thread indicating a double sim was coming and felt the situation was fine as is. Ergo "their discretion" indicated that it wasn't a situation that was deemed worthy of being backed up. 

 

If any pattern were to persist ergo a day was missed regularly every week, or several times per month the rest of Blue and the backup simmers would bring it up when discussing who is simming what inbetween seasons. I'm not saying your intent isn't the right place, it's just that with the way we do our simming I don't really think it's a problem that once or twice a season on any side, from any simmer, we have a 24 hour period without a sim. All the track records since we've moved to this rotating sim schedule have shown this is the best solution and has helped with retention. Again your free to critique the system we use as you wish but just felt a little context might at least put your thoughts into perspective.

 

 

 

With all due respect, you missed a day for the past 3 weeks

Edited June 15, 2020 by rory

[Motzaburger 1,590]

3 minutes ago, Devise said:

If any pattern were to persist ergo a day was missed regularly every week, or several times per month the rest of Blue and the backup simmers would bring it up when discussing who is simming what inbetween seasons. I'm not saying your intent isn't the right place, it's just that with the way we do our simming I don't really think it's a problem that once or twice a season on any side, from any simmer, we have a 24 hour period without a sim. All the track records since we've moved to this rotating sim schedule have shown this is the best solution and has helped with retention. Again your free to critique the system we use as you wish but just felt a little context might at least put your thoughts into perspective.

 

I mean it's good to hear there is somewhat of a plan in place, but missing once or twice a season is not good for retention. Missing any sim is not good. Idk how you are measuring retention from your perspective, but as a VHLM GM I see all the new names and faces and I can assure you missing a single sim is not good for retention. Miss a sim, lose someone's interest. I finally claw them back, oop missed a sim, and they are gone forever. Like Snuss said in his comment, making sure they aren't missed is very important for engagement (and he's a long term member). Can you imagine how important it is for new users?

 

Yes double sims fine whatever, but with a proper system, no double sims ever. No missing. It great to hear your perspective but the whole reason behind this is because I am sharing my perspective and as well as perspectives from the front line of new users so I would hope that bears some importance and you consider that as well please

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, rory said:

With all due respect, you missed a day for the past 3 weeks

 

I addressed all of that in a previous post. The 2 am isn't a missed day, I came on late after a busy night and double simmed to make up for it in the early morning. And technically the other one I gave notice on the day before in the index as well. I'm just saying, if you guys want to make a mountain out of a molehill be my guest but I don't really feel I need to defend my track record as simmer, nor does Beketov. The "it's been going on the past 4 seasons" when it's really just a day or two every season as has been stated is as overblown as a statement gets. If you feel that the odd missed sim every season or so is a big deal, your entitled to but I feel that's absolutely in the realm of mistakes simmers can be afforded to make. 

[Motzaburger 1,590]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

I addressed all of that in a previous post. The 2 am isn't a missed day, I came on late after a busy night and double simmed to make up for it in the early morning. And technically the other one I gave notice on the day before in the index as well. I'm just saying, if you guys want to make a mountain out of a molehill be my guest but I don't really feel I need to defend my track record as simmer, nor does Beketov. The "it's been going on the past 4 seasons" when it's really just a day or two every season as has been stated is as overblown as a statement gets. If you feel that the odd missed sim every season or so is a big deal, your entitled to but I feel that's absolutely in the realm of mistakes simmers can be afforded to make. 

 

So if you miss (and that happens and it's okay!) we could have a solid plan to make sure it happens. Not making a mountain out of a molehill. Making a molehill solution for the molehill. And I'm not attacking you and you shouldn't be so defensive to something that won't hurt you. Tell someone to cover and you're free to take off and do your real life stuff. If I was you I'd love the idea of a standardized way to not have to worry about it when you have to do real life stuff. Mistakes or real life stuff happening, a good, solid plan in place is not a bad thing. Not attacking you Devise. Idk why everyone thinks this is an attack. This is a discussion to support you for when you're busy with real life, essentially. 

[Devise 4,475]

@Motzaburger in most cases that is what is done. If you know your going to have plans or get busy and may not be able to sim generally someone gets notified to either sim or be on watch. But in the rare cases where you intend to sim and then something comes up and puts you in a position where you can't, sometimes your also in a position where you can't notify someone. Because life and plans often fluctuate, there are inevitably going to be instances where a sim is missed. 

 

The only real solution to avoiding this entirely would be to demand back up simmers check the VHL by midnight standard time every night, and if no sim is posted to post a sim on either league missed. But we've never had a stern ruling in regards to simming schedules such as that, only that we commit to trying to get one up every 24 hours and giving make up sims for in the again, rare situation that it doesn't occur. 

 

Also I'm not being defensive because I'm presuming some attack on me, or an attack on Beketov. It's more an attack on the standards with terms like "consistently a problem" or blowing it out of proportion like this has been some long running issue for years. It is a very vocal minority that has voiced displeasure with the simming schedule and it has only been because of in what amounts to a calendar year + worth of time no more than what, 5 maybe 6 missed sims? If you framed your post as less of an attack and a complaint I don't think I'd have any issue with it. Your trying to garner clicks with some hot take attack on what you foresee as a problem when in reality it's just an idea to see the existing standards, increased to a degree where a sim is never missed period. But my point, and why I am being defensive is because you don't get to frame it like we aren't meeting the standards set, within reason. We are. Make your suggestion for changing that standard all you want, I have no problem with that effort. 

[Advantage 2,769]

2 hours ago, Dil said:

Of course but you said:

 

And the problem being:

 

the only people trusthworthy enough to have access to the places a simmer needs are staff. So, if we were to hire more simmers, they would come out of the of the staff team.

I mean...there are people like me without jobs technically.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

Also I'm not being defensive because I'm presuming some attack on me, or an attack on Beketov. It's more an attack on the standards with terms like "consistently a problem" or blowing it out of proportion like this has been some long running issue for years. It is a very vocal minority that has voiced displeasure with the simming schedule and it has only been because of in what amounts to a calendar year + worth of time no more than what, 5 maybe 6 missed sims? If you framed your post as less of an attack and a complaint I don't think I'd have any issue with it. Your trying to garner clicks with some hot take attack on what you foresee as a problem when in reality it's just an idea to see the existing standards, increased to a degree where a sim is never missed period. But my point, and why I am being defensive is because you don't get to frame it like we aren't meeting the standards set, within reason. We are. Make your suggestion for changing that standard all you want, I have no problem with that effort. 

You say two nice paragraphs and then this one.

 

1) Like I said not an attack (for the 6th time regardless of how you think it is or not)

2) Like I said, maybe 'inconsistent sims' within a season is the wrong term and I apologize for you making this a mountain out of a molehill...

3) Consistently a problem: yes. Season to season there are sims missed. That's a fact. 

4) My point exactly - sims are missed and life gets in the way and you don't have time. Then your 2nd paragraph is a perfect solution. 

5) Not trying to garner clicks at all here. Have a consistent complaint from multiple people and it's something I have noticed as well. Was time to address the complaint formally.

6) Like my last point, this is a complaint and I was proposing solutions and hearing others' solutions which were productive. Not an attack. Why do you think I said that in the first line of the first damn post? I did that for a reason. To make that clear. For the seventh time, this is not an attack.  How do I express that any more clearly? I am the one being attacked for proposing a solution. I have been attacked by multiple people in this including you now. 

7) I did not say you are not meeting standards. I didn't mention anything about you. You mentioned the times you missed, not me. I proposed a small solution to a small problem to ensure we don't miss sims (all simmers idgaf who you are). This is a complaint and a disuccsion to make sure we don't miss. I didn't bring anything up about your reasons for missing nor did I attack either you or Bek.

 

You admit to missing but you don't want to make sure some one covers unless you have the chance to let them know? If your life is too busy and you have no time to get to sims or message anyone then why are you in the sim job? Maybe if we can have more make a schedule for simmers why not try that so you can keep simming when you know for sure you'll be able to?

 

[Advantage 2,769]

I actually sorta agree and do feel Sims need to happen at more peak times.  My concern with doing sims real late or occasionally missing is retention may take a hit in the minors.

[Beketov 8,642]

5 minutes ago, Advantage said:

 

I actually sorta agree and do feel Sims need to happen at more peak times.

 

Peak times is super dependent on time zone for what it’s worth. Let’s say peak is 7pm. So for someone like Beav in the west coast that’s 11pm for me which is Obviously not going to fly. It isn’t like there’s presentation to go with it that people need to see live.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

4 minutes ago, Advantage said:

I actually sorta agree and do feel Sims need to happen at more peak times.  My concern with doing sims real late or occasionally missing is retention may take a hit in the minors.

Exactly. 

 

It's awful when new users, who barely know what sims are,who barely know what TPE is, really want to see some action and then ask "When do the games get posted?" And I have to answer with "I don't know" or "Supposed to be sometime each 24 hours so you could get sims at hour 1 of the first 24 hour period then net games hour 24 of the 2nd 24 hour period." 

 

For the most part (from my experiences) players literally come on to do their updates quick and see games (i.e., see their player in action). Miss one day well ok that was the day they were gonna do updates but nothing to look at so that could literally be it for them. Gone. Inactive. Obviously there are other reasons for going IA but we shouldn't be adding to that, we should be minimizing it, especially in the M.

 

 

[Advantage 2,769]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Peak times is super dependent on time zone for what it’s worth. Let’s say peak is 7pm. So for someone like Beav in the west coast that’s 11pm for me which is Obviously not going to fly. It isn’t like there’s presentation to go with it that people need to see live.

Sure but midnight AB time isn't really prime for any timezone in Canada.

[Beketov 8,642]

2 minutes ago, Advantage said:

Sure but midnight AB time isn't really prime for any timezone in Canada.

I mean I can’t speak for Devise but I’ve never Simmed at midnight. It’s either at lunch or after supper so noon or 7ish Atlantic. On ridiculously rare occasions it’s in the morning but that happens maybe once every few seasons.

[Beaviss 4,949]

I don't even know why this is an issue. The sims are super consistent and I couldn't imagine doing it as consistent as @Beketov and @Devise. They are doing it for everyone on the sites enjoyment and are not being paid to do it. The fact that they only miss a sim or two a season is mind blowing to me. 

 

You should have been here two years ago when we would get a couple sims a week lol

 

 

 

[Devise 4,475]

5 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

I don't even know why this is an issue. The sims are super consistent and I couldn't imagine doing it as consistent as @Beketov and @Devise. They are doing it for everyone on the sites enjoyment and are not being paid to do it. The fact that they only miss a sim or two a season is mind blowing to me. 

 

You should have been here two years ago when we would get a couple sims a week lol

 

 

 

 

Not that any of this should mean we can't or aren't open to discussing a different set of simmer requirements that could appease some of the critique in this thread. 

 

But framing it as if sim consistency has been lacking to me is arguing in bad faith. 

[Devise 4,475]

@Advantage My issue with a peak time format has always been its lack of flexibility. I don't think any system that tries to set a standardized sim time makes sense for how spread out the members are.

 

That said, setting some sort of deadline timer to a peak time like say 9pm ET, where if no sim has occurred a back up comes on and covers makes sense to ensure daily sims by at the latest a evening peak time regardless. This would also help with @Motzaburger issues telling members when the sim is. 

 

But if a simmer gets up in the morning and has to sim before getting busy for the day they should be fine to do regardless of any peak time. I don't think members should be entitled to sims at the exact perfect time for their ideal daily activity level. But some clarity on a deadline timer should at least ensure at worst everyone knows what to expect.

[Advantage 2,769]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

@Advantage My issue with a peak time format has always been its lack of flexibility. I don't think any system that tries to set a standardized sim time makes sense for how spread out the members are.

 

That said, setting some sort of deadline timer to a peak time like say 9pm ET, where if no sim has occurred a back up comes on and covers makes sense to ensure daily sims by at the latest a evening peak time regardless. This would also help with @Motzaburger issues telling members when the sim is. 

 

But if a simmer gets up in the morning and has to sim before getting busy for the day they should be fine to do regardless of any peak time. I don't think members should be entitled to sims at the exact perfect time for their ideal daily activity level. But some clarity on a deadline timer should at least ensure at worst everyone knows what to expect.

Thats sorta what I mean.  I think its more of a 9 pm at the latest.  If its a morning or early afternoon sim that's fine but if it falls past 9 then a backup can come in.

 

I think you and Beketov do a great job but unlike @Beaviss I do see how we can improve things to keep it more consistent.

 

Also, Josh shouldn't be one anymore imo.

[BigTittySmitty 172]

I want to say one word to you, just one word:  schedule

 

Ya, it makes sense so if xyz simmer cannot sim then admin team would be searching for a backup if no sign of life of regular. We talk about retention and having the thing we all want (sims) is critical to that. Having backups are great.  Have GMs upload lines/etc to google drive and whomever is simming then plugs that file into the program and then does the needful.  Lots of solutions for those willing to look for them.

[Beaviss 4,949]

52 minutes ago, Advantage said:

I think you and Beketov do a great job but unlike @Beaviss I do see how we can improve things to keep it more consistent.

 

Yes but how realistic is it to have the admin team communicate nightly regarding sim status? We are talking maybe 1-2 misses a season.... This is alot of effort for something so small imo.

[Advantage 2,769]

2 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

Yes but how realistic is it to have the admin team communicate nightly regarding sim status? We are talking maybe 1-2 misses a season.... This is alot of effort for something so small imo.

Is it really a lot of effort?

 

9 pm comes and goes.  A backup simmer can now sim.  Maybe devise has something come up later at night and figures it would have to be a late sim and shoots a quick msg.  If the backups can't get it he sims when he gets back.

 

Its really not that much effort.

 

And its not just misses its when they happen.  A more set time schedule would be better for newer members.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Advantage

[Beaviss 4,949]

Just now, Advantage said:

Is it really a lot of effort?

 

9 pm comes and goes.  A backup simmer can now sim.  Maybe devise has something come up later at night and figures it would have to be a late sim and shoots a quick msg.  If the backups can't get it he sims when he gets back.

 

Its really not that much effort.

 

Doing it nightly would be alot of effort .. are we talking 9pm pst or est? Central? Everyone is in a different time zone.. I'm not sure why it's a big deal. I love Sims as much as the last guy but I think this is alot of effort to put on something that is so rare.

[Advantage 2,769]

2 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

Doing it nightly would be alot of effort .. are we talking 9pm pst or est? Central? Everyone is in a different time zone.. I'm not sure why it's a big deal. I love Sims as much as the last guy but I think this is alot of effort to put on something that is so rare.

What was discussed in here was 9 ET.  And not really..most nights as you said it wouldn't be an issue.  And if it's happening for at least 4-5 sims (when factoring in time) a season its not THAT rare.

[Josh 1,598]

1 hour ago, Advantage said:

Also, Josh shouldn't be one anymore imo.

 

I've already said I'd stream any of mine related to VHL/VHLM. I don't for WC or WJC. 

[Gustav 6,097]

Back in my day Jardy something something

[Advantage 2,769]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

 

I've already said I'd stream any of mine related to VHL/VHLM. I don't for WC or WJC. 

Thats fine.  I just also think while you are GM it would be easier to just pass it off to one of the other people that are willing to until you aren't one again.  Just my opinion.

 

I was of the same opinion with Devise even tho i don't think either of you would cheat.