Gustav 6,117 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) Hi! It's been a while. On April 21, BlankMediaGames announced Town of Salem 2--the game we know and love, with lots of different rules, roles, and mechanics, and something I'd love to bring to the forum. I've been through the role list, and I'm super excited and highly optimistic that we'll be able to run a game in this format at some point...but it's going to require quite a bit of work to get there. I'm going to put up a role list here that's the extent of what I know, and I encourage you to look it over. In some cases, ToS2 mechanics are advanced beyond what I know how to support on the forum, and they'll require some modifications. In a lot of those cases, there are a good number of roles with day actions, and things that happen instantly when an action is taken during the day. I'll note right up top that my default way to handle this will most likely be "it will happen when I notice" and that I will most likely introduce an "end of day mail" system that anyone can use in a limited capacity. I'll standardize this in the future and add it to the rules, but it will most likely work like this: (after going through the list I don't think this is necessary) Quote Player who can investigate during the day and should be receiving results able to be reported before end of day (in Discord): Hi, please investigate [player]; end of day mail to say "I'm investigating [player] who turned out to be suspicious/not suspicious" depending on my results Me in game thread, if I'm not able to give results with over 2 hours or so left in the day phase: End of Day Mail: From X: I'm investigating [player] who turned out to be suspicious From Y: [Player] is not suspicious This will be made available to all players to avoid hard confirmation of roles that otherwise wouldn't have been able to be directly confirmed. Oh, and also there's no Mafia faction at all in ToS2; it's just Coven That's the only thing I can think of now that applies to a bunch of roles, so let's take a look at the list for ToS 2: NO FORMATTING; BOLD ONLY: kept the same as in original ToS BOLD AND ITALICIZED: Role from original ToS with changes made in ToS2 RED: New role entirely ^^ANY OF THE ABOVE MARKED WITH 2 CARETS: Role with a day action; default modification likely to be end of day mail system "it happens when I see it" **ANY OF THE ABOVE MARKED WITH 2 ASTERISKS: Role with other modifications potentially necessary for forum play ORANGE TEXT: Gustav notes Credit to this page for just about everything that's below; this is a copy-paste of that with my own notes added. Let's get on with the role list. Keep in mind that this is an extremely rough draft and not an official set of rules yet: Town Roles Town Investigative ^^CORONER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Perform an autopsy on a dead player during the day to gain clues about who killed them. - Once an autopsy has been performed, you may check a living player each night to determine if they were the killer. - Enchanters will make your target appear to be a killer. Attributes: - You can reset your autopsy on a new corpse. I don't know what the "clues" are here and I'm interested to find out. Game-specific revision might be necessary so clues remain generic enough that our longer day phases don't make this role too powerful. INVESTIGATOR Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Investigate a player's house at night to see if they have incriminating evidence. Attributes: - You will find incriminating evidence if your target attacked someone that night. - An Enchanter can make your target appear to have incriminating evidence. - An Illusionist can make your target appear to not have incriminating evidence. I believe this is simple enough that we're good to go with it. LOOKOUT Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Watch one person at night to see who visits them. Attributes: - You do not visit the person you are watching. - You will not see roles that have Astral visits. The only real change seems to be that a Lookout doesn't visit their target. This isn't clear whether the "can only see 3 visits" limit for ToS Lookout is present in ToS2 but that's a minor change either way. **PSYCHIC Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Target a player to have a vision at night. Attributes: - On odd nights you'll have a vision of three players, at least one will be Evil. - On even nights you'll have a vision of two players, at least one will be Good. - The player you target is included in your vision. - Illusionists can make evil players appear good, and Enchanters can have good players appear evil. Psychic is now slightly stronger (and slightly different) because of the ability to have a vision including a particular player. **If we start gaming this too hard or it becomes too powerful I might revert it back to the original ToS role. SEER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Choose two players at night to determine if they are on opposing factions. Attributes: - You may not choose yourself. - You may not choose a revealed Mayor. - An Enchanter or Illusioner can throw off your results. SHERIFF Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Search one person each night for suspicious activity. Attributes: - Enchanters can make players appear suspicious. - Illusionists can make players appear innocent. - The holder of the Necronomicon will appear innocent. Seer and Sheriff seem...really really similar from a fundamental perspective and I'm not sure why both are needed...but why not both I guess? SPY Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - You may bug a player’s house to see what happens to them that night. - You will detect what happened to them such as being Attacked, Protected, Roleblocked, Silenced, Dreamweaved, Controlled and more. - You will also detect hidden effects such as Hex, Douse, Insanity, Enchant, Illusioned and more. Attributes: - You will not see what your target did. - Your information cannot be fooled by any other role. I love the changes to this role. A Spy no longer gets a list of evil faction visits (a mechanic I always thought was kind of stupid for the work I had to put into it) and I also really appreciate that it's able to check for hidden effects that were undetectable in OG ToS. TRACKER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Track one person each night to see who they visit. Attributes: - You will not see your target visiting if their visit is Astral. - Your information cannot be fooled by any other role. Oh look, exactly the same! I liked Tracker to begin with so I'm good with this. Town Killing **^^DEPUTY Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Ability Uses: 1 Abilities: - You may shoot a player during the day. Attributes: - You cannot shoot on Day 1. - If the player you shoot is a Town member, you will immediately die. - Players you shoot during the day are dealt a Powerful Attack. **I think I'm going to make a Deputy FORUM MESSAGE me with the day action--the Deputy shouldn't be able to take it back and that way there's something that can't be deleted if someone changes their mind. Voting numbers will be adjusted accordingly at the end of the day--for example, if we started with 7 votes needed, and one death (or two) takes that down to 6, there will be 6 votes needed at the end of the day. I considered making it so the Deputy can't talk once the action is taken (between shooting and me noticing) in case they should be dead, but I don't have an issue with this because there's an added level of gameplay in "hey I shot you, might as well tell us what you know" on both ends of that situation. TRICKSTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - You may trick an attacker against you into another player. Attributes: - You can redirect multiple attacks in one night. - Any attackers you redirect will be notified of being tricked. I don't know whether I like this one yet but it's easy to moderate. Sort of a half-self-transport but only for attackers? VETERAN Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None* Unique: No Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - Decide if you will go on Alert at night. Attributes: - You will deal a Powerful Attack to any player that visits you when on Alert. - You gain Basic Defense the night you are on Alert. - You will know how many people you shoot. VIGILANTE Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: No Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - Choose to take justice in your own hands and shoot someone at night. Attributes: - You cannot shoot Night 1. - If you kill a Townmember, you will die at the beginning of the day. -*Players you shoot will be dealt a Basic Attack. Town Power JAILOR Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - During the day, you may choose a player to Jail the following night. - You may choose to execute your prisoner, dealing an Unstoppable Attack. Attributes: - You may not Execute someone on Night 1. - You may not Jail the same player twice in a row. - You may anonymously talk with your prisoner. - Jailed players cannot be targeted by any direct ability, except a Jester's Haunt. - If you execute a Town member, you will lose the ability to Jail. A Jailor in ToS2 cannot jail the same player twice in a row, and I've been considering making that the case for ToS1 as well. That's the only difference and it's a good one. MAYOR Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may Reveal yourself as the Mayor of the Town during the day. Attributes: - You may not Reveal Day 1. - When Revealed, your vote counts as 3. - When Revealed, your Defense cannot be raised above None. Mayor is severely altered by the last bullet point; insta-reveals being banned are also new. I'd be interested in finding out whether a Mayor in jail has defense or if they're still unprotected. MONARCH Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 2 Abilities: - Choose another player to Knight at night. Attributes: - A Knighted player will permanently have an extra vote. - You will have Basic Defense while a Knighted player is alive. - You can not Knight the same player twice. I immediately question if it's possible to Knight a revealed Mayor and feel like it won't/shouldn't be. I'm also not sure how visible those extra votes are to other players and will have to learn more about how to represent this in game. **^^PROSECUTOR Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 2 Abilities: - You may Prosecute a player during the day. Attributes: - A Prosecuted player will be put on trial, and their verdict will be guilty. - If you Prosecute a Town member, you will die immediately. This essentially means that a Prosecutor can decide to insta-lynch someone. Like Deputy, I think this will require a FORUM message to be sent to me so the player can't put in an action and take it back before I notice. I'll have to decide what this means for timing of phase transition (will we end and go to night phase immediately? Will we keep day phase open the whole time? Will I just wait on lynching until the end of the day to keep it consistent?) but this should be doable even if it's a bit weird. Town Protective BODYGUARD Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Protect a player one direct attack each night. - Stay at home and protect yourself for the night, gaining Basic Defense. Attributes: - If your target is directly attacked, or the victim of a harmful visit, you and the visitor will fight. -*Players you fight will be dealt a Powerful Attack. - You cannot protect from passive attacks. - You can only protect yourself twice. This doesn't mention the Bodyguard dying while defending from an attack and I'd be interested in verifying whether that's the case. If it's still true, this is the same role as before, but if not, it's slightly different. CLERIC Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Cast a protective barrier on a player each night, granting Powerful Defense and curing Poison. - Stay at home and cast a barrier on yourself. Attributes: - You will know if your target was attacked. - You may only cast a barrier on yourself once. This is the Doctor from ToS1 with a new name--nothing different otherwise. CRUSADER Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Protect a player each night, granting Powerful Defense. Attributes: - *You will deal a Basic Attack to one random visitor to your target that night. - You will know if your target was attacked. TRAPPER Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Place a Trap at another player's house at night, granting Powerful Defense against one attack. - Select yourself at night to Dismantle a Trap, removing it from the player. Attributes: - Traps take one day to build, and you can only have one Trap out at a time. - Traps stay on a player until they are triggered or dismantled. - *Traps are triggered when a player directly visits one, and will deal a Powerful Attack to one harmful visitor. - You will know the roles of the players that trigger your Trap. Town Support ^^**ADMIRER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Ability Uses: 2* Abilities: - You may propose to a player during the day. - Once you have a Lover you may Care for them at night. Attributes: - *If they accept both of your roles will be revealed to each other and you lose any remaining proposals. - If your target accepts and is a Town member you will become Lovers and you can Care for them at night. - if your Lover dies you will die. If you die, your lover will die. - Caring for a player will give them powerful defense, and remove some negative effects - If your target accepts and is a Non-Town member you will be in a Toxic Relationship and you will be silenced the following day. - You cannot propose to a player on day one. I don't like how this is worded and it raises a lot of questions about the role mechanics that I don't know many of the answers to. The "silenced" part makes me wonder if that's similar to being Blackmailed in ToS1 (which is horrible to moderate) and I'd have to come up with a way to communicate the day action. I also wonder if this is valid for one night or for the whole game--and whether I'd say "you have an admirer who has proposed" or "[specific player] has proposed to you". AMNESIAC Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Remember a Townmember to inherit their role at night. Attributes: - You will automatically remember the first Town role that you see appear in the graveyard at night. This is now a Town role and I actually kind of like that in our format. I have no idea how the statements above are consistent with each other (do you have control over the role that you remember/person you choose to be or not?) and I also wonder if there are any roles (i.e. Jailor or just uniques in general) that can't be remembered. It's almost old-retri-by-proxy if given full control in both cases. RETRIBUTIONIST Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Raise a dead Townmember and use their ability on another player at night. Attributes: - You will learn any notifications the Town member that you use would receive. - You only visit the Town member you use. - You are immune to roleblocks and controls. I'm assuming the same dead Townie can't be visited twice, in which case this is the same role. I'll keep an eye out to verify this. TAVERN KEEPER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Have a celebratory beverage with a player at night, roleblocking them. Attributes: - The following day, the player will have a hangover and be immune to roleblocks the following night. - If you attempt to roleblock an uncautious Serial Killer, they will attack you. - You are immune to roleblocks. This is just slightly-nerfed ToS1 Escort and I like the slight nerf because it's something I'd like to do to regular Escort--make it so a player can't be roleblocked every single night. Coven Roles Necronomicon Priority: Coven Leader Wildling Conjurer Medusa Poisoner Witch Dreamweaver Enchanter VoodooMaster HexMaster Necromancer PotionMaster Illusionist Ritualist Jinx Coven Deception **DREAMWEAVER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may invade the dreams of a player and attempt to drive them Insane. Attributes: - Players will go not Insane the following night if they are visited by a Town member, or if they are a non-Town role. - Insane players cannot use any day abilities, and will randomly vote and target at night. - Insanity is permanent until you die. - With the Necronomicon, you will also deal a Basic Attack to your target. The first bullet point lightly implies that this might be a day ability (?) but the "dreams" part lightly implies that it isn't. I don't know yet. I also don't quite know yet how I'm going to do the "randomly vote" part; maybe I'll just record a random vote without saying so at the end of the day but that could throw off me being the one to make vote tracker posts and I don't really know how to make sure an Insane player doesn't just try to blend in and post votes with everyone else without hard confirming that they're Insane. It's going to require a bit of thought. ENCHANTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Enchant a player with evil energy each night. - Alter your target's Role and Last Will at night. Your target will appear as what you selected if they die that night. Attributes: - Enchanted players appear suspicious to Coroners, Investigators, Psychic, and Sheriffs. Enchanted players appear as a Coven member to Seers. - Enchants last on a player until they are visited by an Investigative role. - All Coven members will see an Altered player's true Role and Last Will in the graveyard. - You may only Alter a player 2 times. - With the Necronomicon, you will also deal a Basic Attack to your target. Basically just ToS1 Forger but adapted for the Coven. Illusionist Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may cast an Illusion on a Coven member at night to make them appear innocent. Attributes: - Your Illusioned target will appear innocent to Investigators and Sheriffs. - Your Illusions will make Psychics see your target as good. - Your Illusioned target will appear as a Town member to Seers. - Your Illusions will make Bodyguards and Trappers not interact with your target. - With the Necronomicon, you may deal a Basic Attack to your target instead of casting an Illusion, unless they are a Coven member. I think the fourth Attribute could be interpreted a few different ways but other than that it's just anti-ToS1 Framer. MEDUSA Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - You may choose to Stone Gaze a player at night. Attributes: - If a player you Stone Gaze dies that night, their Role and Last Will are hidden upon death to all non-Coven members. - With the Necronomicon, you will also deal a Basic Attack to your target. Classic Medusa! Coven Killing ^^CONJUROR Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 1 Abilities: - *Conjure a meteor to deal a Powerful Attack towards a player during the day. Attributes: - You cannot conjure a meteor Day 1. - With the Necronomicon, you may deal a Basic Attack to a player each night. I'd like to figure out whether the Necronomicon takes away the original ability, as well as to see if there's any better way to take care of the day action than "I'll kill the player when I see it" as I can see this messing with votes (although a smart Coven could use it to mess with votes on purpose anyway). If there are any outright unfair/unintended ways this could work on the forum, I'd appreciate hearing about that so I can draw up a response. JINX Stats: Attack: None* Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - *You may choose to lie in wait at your target's house, dealing a Basic Attack to one random non-Coven visitor. Attributes: - All players visiting your target will learn your identity. - With the Necronomicon, your target is also dealt a Basic Attack. - You will inherit the Necronomicon last. This is ToS1 Ambusher but for Coven. RITUALIST Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Ability Uses: 3 Abilities: - You may perform a Blood Ritual on a player at night, attempting to guess their role. Attributes: - If you guess your target's role correctly, they will be dealt an Unstoppable Attack. - If you guess your target's role incorrectly, you will be revealed as the Ritualist. - With the Necronomicon, you may deal a Basic Attack to your target instead of performing a Blood Ritual. - You can not guess Town Investigative roles. I love this role (and I appreciate the no-TI nerf). I'm curious if it pertains to a revealed Mayor because that feels kind of cheap, but it's a reason to keep the Jailor quiet in public. Coven Power COVEN LEADER Stats: Attack: Basic* Defense: None* Unique: Yes Abilities: - Choose a player to kill each night. Attributes: - You will gain the Necronomicon first. -With your deep knowledge of the Necronimicon you unlock its full potential to empower your offense or defense. -*With empowered offense you have a Powerful Attack and Roleblock immunity. -*With empowered defense you have Basic Defense. This implies that offense/defense is one OR the other and I feel like that's really weird. I also wonder if you can switch or if you just get to pick one forever. Honestly, I think I like ToS1 Coven Leader a little better, but this is still powerful. HEX MASTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may choose to Hex a player each night. Attributes: - Hexes are permanent. - When all living non-Coven members are Hexed, all Hexed players are dealt a passive Unstoppable Attack. - With the Necronomicon, you gain Astral visits and will deal a Basic Attack to your target. I don't love Hex Master to begin with and this is the same role. Maybe we'll actually see it work at some point! WITCH Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Control someone into a player of your choice each night. Attributes: - You will know the role of the player you control. - You are immune to roleblocks. - With the Necronomicon, your target is also dealt a Basic Attack. - You cannot control the same person twice in a row. I have to decide whether the Witch joining the Coven full-time (it's a Neutral Evil role in ToS1) is cool or uncool, but it's interesting and I appreciate controls don't just disappear with the Coven Leader changes. Coven Utility NECROMANCER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Raise a dead player and use their ability on another player at night. Attributes: - You will learn any notifications the player that you use would receive. - With the Necronomicon, you gain the ability to summon a ghoul each night, dealing a Basic Attack to a player. POISONER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Have a beverage with your target at night, roleblocking them. - Poison a beverage once per game. Attributes: - The following day, the player will have a hangover and be immune to roleblocks the following night. - If you roleblock an uncautious Serial Killer, they will attack you. - A Poisoned beverage will kill the player the following night. The Poison can be cured by a Cleric or Potion Master. - You can only poison 1 beverage. - With the Necronomicon, you will also deal a Basic Attack to your target. This combines the Consort and Poisoner roles from ToS1 into one. Between this and the Tavern Keeper I'm starting to wonder if Wawa has gotten a liquor license... POTION MASTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may use a Protect or Reveal Potion on another player at night. Attributes: - Protect Potions grant the target Powerful Defense, and cure Poison. - Reveal Potions will reveal the target's role to all Coven members. - With the Necronomicon, you gain the ability to use an Attack Potion, dealing a Basic Attack to a target. Same potions, different ways to use them. This says nothing about a cooldown (you should be able to protect twice in a row or reveal twice in a row) and the attack potion isn't accessible until getting the Necronomicon. VOODOO MASTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Choose a player each night to create a Voodoo Doll of, silencing them the next day. Attributes: - Your target cannot talk or whisper the next day. - You cannot silence the same player twice in a row. - With the Necronomicon, your will also deal a Basic Attack to your target. - Silenced players will not be able to vote during the Discussion phase, but can vote during the Judgement phase. This is just Coven Blackmailer. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but I've stopped using Blackmailer in ToS1 because I don't know of a good way to moderate it/one that's fair if someone misses the notification and starts talking anyway. Also, with voting being what it is on the forum, we metagame it way too much. If anyone has any ideas, let me know because I'm not sure I'd use this as is. WILDLING Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - You can see every player that the Town visits at night. Attributes: - With the Necronomicon, you may deal a Basic Attack to a player each night. ToS1 Spy for Coven is interesting and potentially super valuable if it's used right but I can also see it being useless if not used right. It's going to require a deceptive amount of thought to work with from the player end. Neutral Roles Neutral Apocalypse BAKER/FAMINE Baker Stats: Attack: None Defense: Basic Unique: Yes Abilities: - Choose a player to give bread to at night. Attributes: - If 3 living players have bread, you will transform into Famine. - Players with bread will starve slower when the Famine begins. - If there are less than 3 players alive before you transform, you will die and lose the game. Goal: Successfully give bread to 3 living players and become Famine. Famine Stats Attack: None Defense: Invincible Unique: Yes Abilities: - Choose a player each night to speed up their starvation by one day. Attributes: - The night after you transform, all players without bread will be dealt an Unstoppable Attack. - Players with bread will live an additional three days before dying of starvation. - You are immune to roleblocks and controls. Goal: Kill everyone that would oppose you. My first impression is that this role is INSANE and there's a lot I'd like to know about it. Do players know they have bread? Is there any way they can lose it? Is the arrival of Famine publicly announced or does it just happen? If a player with bread is lynched (or is killed) the day after 3 players have been given bread or dies the following night from other causes, does Famine still happen? Also, with our games having more people, is it smart to increase the number to 4 living players with bread? I think it is. BERSERKER/WARBerserker Stats: Attack: Powerful Defense: Basic Unique: Yes Abilities: - Attack a player on Full Moon Nights. Attributes: - With each kill, your powers grow. - On your first kill, you may attack each night. - On your second kill, you will Rampage at your target's house, passively killing any visitors. - On your third kill, you will transform into War. Goal: Kill three players and become War. War Stats: Attack: Unstoppable Defense: Invincible Unique: Yes Abilities: - Kill a player each night, dealing an Unstoppable Attack. Attributes: - You will Rampage at your target's house, passively killing any visitors. Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. This is just a rebranded ToS1 Juggernaut. PLAGUEBEARER/PESTILENCEPlaguebearer Stats: Attack: None Defense: Basic Unique: Yes Abilities: - You may choose to infect a player with the Plague each night. Attributes: - Infections spread when a player visits or is visited by an Infected player. - You will Infect anyone that visits you. - Players will not be notified that they are Infected. - When all living players are infected, you will transform into Pestilence. Goal: Successfully infect all living players and become Pestilence. Pestilence Stats: Attack: Powerful Defense: Invincible Unique: Yes Abilities: - Rampage at a player's house each night. Attributes: - You will passively attack anyone that visits you. Goal: Kill everyone that would oppose you. Classic Pest and this is what made the "Neutral Apocalypse" label make sense. Part of me wonders if there can only be one Apocalypse role in the game but none of this has said that. SOUL COLLECTOR/DEATHSoul Collector Stats: Attack: None Defense: Basic Unique: Yes Abilities: - Watch a player each night and attempt to collect their soul. Attributes: - If the player you watch dies at night, you will collect their soul. - You will passively gain one soul from the Underworld. - When you have collected 6 souls, you will transform into Death. Goal: Successfully collect 6 souls and become Death. Death Stats: Attack: None Defense: Invincible Unique: Yes Abilities: - Bring forth the Apocalypse the following night that you transform. Attributes: - All living players will be dealt an Unstoppable Attack the night the Apocalypse occurs. - If you are lynched the day before the Apocalypse occurs, the Apocalypse will not take place and you will lose the game. Goal: Kill everyone that would oppose you. Trying to figure out the logistics of this has me wondering a lot. Is "the Apocalypse is going to happen" something that's announced at the start of the preceding day or not? Also, much like Baker/Famine, I feel like it's smart to increase the number by at least 1 (maybe 2) to account for our larger player bases. This is based on my assumed understanding that the Soul Collector gets one soul per night no matter what, and adds to that by watching players, and I'll have to confirm that. Neutral Evil DOOMSAYER Stats: Attack: None Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Select three players each night and attempt to guess their roles. Attributes: - If you correctly guess the roles of all three players, they will be dealt an Unstoppable Attack. - After successfully Dooming three players, you will leave the Town in victory. - Guessing a player's role bypass Jail. - You can not guess Town Investigative roles. Goal: Successfully Doom three players. This is another role that kind of discourages a "Town shares everything all the time no matter what" play style and even though I don't like how this role accomplishes that I see the place for it. I wonder how "leave the Town" works--is it actually leaving or just being able to stick around like ToS1 Executioner or Pirate? EXECUTIONER Stats: Attack: None Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Choose a player each night and try to get them hanged the next day. Attributes: - If you successfully hang your target, you will torment a guilty or abstaining voter, dealing an Unstoppable Attack. - If you successfully hang your target, you will walk away from the town in victory. Goal: Hang your target by any means necessary. There are things I like (and things I don't) about choosing a player every night, but it's mostly the same role either way. Same "leave the town" question applies as above. JESTER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Abilities: - Trick everyone into voting against you. Attributes: - If you are hanged, you will Haunt one of your guilty or abstaining voters with an Unstoppable Attack the following night. - Your Haunt bypasses Jail. - You may stay at home and protect yourself to gain Basic Defense. Goal: Get yourself hanged by any means necessary. I wonder if that third Attribute isn't meant to be there because it doesn't seem to make sense in context. Either way it's basically ToS1 Jester. PIRATE Stats: Attack: Unstoppable Defense: None Unique: Yes Abilities: - Choose a player during the day to Duel the following night. Attributes: - When a player is Dueled, they will be roleblocked and must choose one of three options in attempt to defend themselves. - If your target doesn't defend themselves, you will plunder them, dealing an Unstoppable Attack. - If your target defends themselves, you will not plunder them. - If there are not enough players alive for you to plunder, you will die of scurvy. - Once you have successfully plundered 2 players you will walk away from the town in victory. Goal: - Successfully plunder 2 players. Only change here is the fourth Attribute--which I don't think we'll ever actually run into. Neutral Killing ARSONIST Stats: Attack: Unstoppable Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Douse someone in gasoline each night. - You may Ignite at night, dealing all Doused players an Unstoppable Attack. Attributes: - You will passively Douse anyone that visits you. - If you take no action, you will attempt to clean any gasoline off yourself. Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. I'm very glad we've kept classic Arso! SERIAL KILLER Stats: Attack: Basic* Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Kill a player each night, dealing a Basic Attack. - You can choose to go Cautious at night, not attacking any roleblockers. - When you have gotten 2 sucessful kills in a row your Bloodlust consumes you causing your next attack to be a Powerful Rampaging Attack. Attributes: - If you are roleblocked, you will attack the roleblocker in addition to your target, having their Last Will hidden upon death. - If you are Jailed, you will attack the Jailor. - If you are Dueled, you will attack the Pirate. Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. I like the third Ability here and I'm curious if that stacks up (if a Bloodlust kill happens, is the next attack also Bloodlust?) but otherwise it's classic SK. SHROUD Stats: Attack: Basic Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Choose to attack or Shroud a player at night. Attributes: - When Shrouding, you will deliver an Astral Basic Attack to any players that they visit that night. - Shrouded players will appear to be a harmful visitor that night. - You will not attack anyone if the Shrouded player doesn't visit. Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. I immediately wonder if appearing to be a harmful visitor would cause a Trap to kill the Shrouded player, but other than that seems fairly straightforward and I like it. WEREWOLF Stats: Attack: Powerful Defense: Basic Unique: No Abilities: - Transform into a Werewolf and maul a player on Full Moon Nights, dealing a Powerful Attack. Attributes: - You will Rampage at your target's house, passively attacking any visitors. - You will passively attack any of your visitors if you are roleblocked or if you stay home on a Full Moon Night. - If you are Jailed or Dueled on a Full Moon Night, you will attack the Jailor or Pirate. Goal: Kill everyone who would oppose you. I like classic WW, and this is it! So, hi again! If you've got time to read through this, please do, and please tell me what you think (and what you'd like to see) in response to some of my questions. Edited May 14, 2023 by Gustav Ptyrell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) Here's some notes on the roles that I've gathered from watching Pipe's videos: 1 hour ago, Gustav said: ^^CORONER From what I understand, there's not specific clues, they just queue up the body during the day and if the person they check at night is the killer, they find out. Pipe usually bans it since it's pretty meh 1 hour ago, Gustav said: LOOKOUT The limit is gone. Lookout is effectively an Astral visit itself now. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: SPY I also like the Spy changes. Removes the OP non-interactive part and makes the bug more useful. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: **^^DEPUTY Day time actions are gonna be the hardest part for sure. Deputy seems simple enough since it's like a Mayor reveal and Vigi shot at the same time, so posting it in the thread like a Mayor reveal should work fine. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: TRICKSTER Yeah it's a weird pseudo Transporter role. Good fake claim for evils. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: VETERAN No longer being Unique also makes Vet a good fake claim now too. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: JAILOR It's a good change but it's not the only difference: if you exe a Town, you lose the ability to Jail entirely, not just exe. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: MAYOR I don't know the answer for Jailor, but a Bodyguard at least can still protect them. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: MONARCH 99% sure you can't Knight a revealed Mayor. Probably just keep track of it in the vote tally since the Knighting is public at the start of day (I think it's like "The Monarch has knighted so and so", I'll have to double check). 1 hour ago, Gustav said: **^^PROSECUTOR This does immediately end the day phase, so not sure how you'd want to go about it. Not exactly ToS but I've been in Werewolf servers that have open night chat anyway that works ok, so it wouldn't be the worst if you keep it open until end of day. Also if they Prosecute at the very start of day you could just have a speed-up day (if everyone is around to check in). This is probably going to be the toughest to handle. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: BODYGUARD Yeah you still die. Basically the same role except you can self vest twice. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: ^^**ADMIRER Stats: Attack: None Defense: None Unique: No Ability Uses: 2* Abilities: - You may propose to a player during the day. - Once you have a Lover you may Care for them at night. Attributes: - *If they accept both of your roles will be revealed to each other and you lose any remaining proposals. - If your target accepts and is a Town member you will become Lovers and you can Care for them at night. - if your Lover dies you will die. If you die, your lover will die. - Caring for a player will give them powerful defense, and remove some negative effects - If your target accepts and is a Non-Town member you will be in a Toxic Relationship and you will be silenced the following day. - You cannot propose to a player on day one. I don't like how this is worded and it raises a lot of questions about the role mechanics that I don't know many of the answers to. The "silenced" part makes me wonder if that's similar to being Blackmailed in ToS1 (which is horrible to moderate) and I'd have to come up with a way to communicate the day action. I also wonder if this is valid for one night or for the whole game--and whether I'd say "you have an admirer who has proposed" or "[specific player] has proposed to you". This role was terrible before and just got reworked, so not super familiar with it. The proposal is now delivered privately at the start of night phase (it showed the player character before so I assume it would be [specific player] but cannot confirm that atm). And yes silence is blackmailed (and can't vote that day) but only lasts the one day. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: AMNESIAC Remembering is automatic. I don't know if it's just the first one dead or a random one at first opportunity. I don't think it's announced publicly anymore either. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: RETRIBUTIONIST I'm assuming the same dead Townie can't be visited twice, in which case this is the same role. I'll keep an eye out to verify this. You can use the same body over and over again. I think you might still have to share with a Necro or other Retri on a nightly basis, haven't really seen that interaction play out yet. Also you can no longer target yourself with bodies. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: TAVERN KEEPER I also like the roleblock immunity after a roleblock. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: Necronomicon Priority: Coven Leader Wildling Conjurer Medusa Poisoner Witch Dreamweaver Enchanter VoodooMaster HexMaster Necromancer PotionMaster Illusionist Ritualist Jinx I knew there was an order but I didn't know the order. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: **DREAMWEAVER Dreamweaving is a night action, and the person knows when they get dreamweaved so they can ask for someone to visit them to clear it before going Insane. I also don't know how you want to handle the random voting 1 hour ago, Gustav said: ENCHANTER It's actually Framer that also can Forge twice per game. I don't think you can do both on the same night. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: ILLUSIONISTI think the fourth Attribute could be interpreted a few different ways but other than that it's just anti-ToS1 Framer. I think it just means if the Coven's attacker is Illusion'd, BGs and Traps just ignore and don't protect. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: MEDUSA Classic Medusa! Not quite! Medusa no longer attacks. It's basically just Janitor now. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: ^^CONJUROR I'd like to figure out whether the Necronomicon takes away the original ability, as well as to see if there's any better way to take care of the day action than "I'll kill the player when I see it" as I can see this messing with votes (although a smart Coven could use it to mess with votes on purpose anyway). If there are any outright unfair/unintended ways this could work on the forum, I'd appreciate hearing about that so I can draw up a response. I don't think it does, but I always see them blast it off at the start of Day 2 so I can't say for sure. Maybe put a deadline on this one each day (i.e. can't use it if there's less than 3 hours left in the day phase)? 1 hour ago, Gustav said: RITUALIST The no TI nerf made was much needed than when it was first released. Hard to play TI if you'd just get sniped the next night! 1 hour ago, Gustav said: COVEN LEADERThis implies that offense/defense is one OR the other and I feel like that's really weird. I also wonder if you can switch or if you just get to pick one forever. Honestly, I think I like ToS1 Coven Leader a little better, but this is still powerful. It is one or the other. I assume you can choose each night but I haven't seen it in action. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: WITCH Lore-wise, the ToS1 Witch just became the Coven Leader, so it's technically not joining if they founded it in the first place 1 hour ago, Gustav said: NECROMANCER I believe Necro can now self-target! Not 100% certain on that though. Also can use the same body multiple times. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: POISONER Basically Consort with a one time poison. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: POTION MASTER No cooldown afaik, attack is only available with the book. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: VOODOO MASTER Yeah it's just Blackmailer. As fun as it was to get an Executioner win by faking being Blackmailed in a game with no Mafia, it's not a fun effect to have in this format. I do believe you can't be bm'd two days in a row though! 1 hour ago, Gustav said: WILDLING Basically, the Wildling is a Tracker that passively tracks every single player every night. It's super strong (and makes Tracker claims super sus!) 1 hour ago, Gustav said: Neutral Roles Neutral Apocalypse I like the Apocalypse idea they added. I think normally only one can appear in a game outside of the horseman specific game mode but idk for sure if that holds true for All Any. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: BAKER/FAMINE My first impression is that this role is INSANE and there's a lot I'd like to know about it. Do players know they have bread? Is there any way they can lose it? Is the arrival of Famine publicly announced or does it just happen? If a player with bread is lynched (or is killed) the day after 3 players have been given bread or dies the following night from other causes, does Famine still happen? Also, with our games having more people, is it smart to increase the number to 4 living players with bread? I think it is. I don't think they know they have bread. I think the arrival is just signaled by most of the Town dying of starvation. If someone with bread dies, they do need to give bread to someone else before transforming. Probably not a bad idea to scale it with number of people (maybe add 1 bread for each 5 added? Maybe with the caveat that if living players drop below a certain number it scales back down to 3). 1 hour ago, Gustav said: BERSERKER/WAR Juggernaut, but now with Invincible Defense at max power. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: PLAGUEBEARER/PESTILENCE Classic Pest and this is what made the "Neutral Apocalypse" label make sense. Part of me wonders if there can only be one Apocalypse role in the game but none of this has said that. I mentioned it earlier but in a normal game yes there's only one Apocalypse role. Unless you do four horseman mode, then you have all four (with no Coven) and they win together. I don't know if you're allowed multiple in All Any or not (though my guess is no). I also don't know if they have a shared night chat if Four Horseman mode. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: SOUL COLLECTOR/DEATH Trying to figure out the logistics of this has me wondering a lot. Is "the Apocalypse is going to happen" something that's announced at the start of the preceding day or not? Also, much like Baker/Famine, I feel like it's smart to increase the number by at least 1 (maybe 2) to account for our larger player bases. This is based on my assumed understanding that the Soul Collector gets one soul per night no matter what, and adds to that by watching players, and I'll have to confirm that. There's a message that Death has arrived at the start of the day. If Death isn't lynched, they just kill everyone after the vote ends. Afaik you're right with 1 guaranteed soul per day with chance for additional 1 if they watch the right person. 6 for 15, so probably add 1 per 3 players after that? 1 hour ago, Gustav said: DOOMSAYER This is another role that kind of discourages a "Town shares everything all the time no matter what" play style and even though I don't like how this role accomplishes that I see the place for it. I wonder how "leave the Town" works--is it actually leaving or just being able to stick around like ToS1 Executioner or Pirate? This is Pipe's new favorite role. ALL the Neutral Evils leave the game with they get their win now, no more kingmaker scenarios. Note that they can kill any role, not just Town. Just gotta guess all 3 right! Would probably also put the "no-TI" restriction on it. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: EXECUTIONER There are things I like (and things I don't) about choosing a player every night, but it's mostly the same role either way. Same "leave the town" question applies as above. They leave when they win. They can choose anyone at night, including Coven or other Neutrals. And if they win, one person who voted for that target gets killed randomly (guilty or abstained, basically same rules as Jester). 1 hour ago, Gustav said: JESTER Same Jester as before. Note that Sheriff now finds ALL neutral evils as SUS, so technically Jester got buffed! 1 hour ago, Gustav said: PIRATE Unstoppable attack is also new, and they too leave when they win. It wasn't unique at first but they made it unique again. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: SERIAL KILLER I like the third Ability here and I'm curious if that stacks up (if a Bloodlust kill happens, is the next attack also Bloodlust?) but otherwise it's classic SK. I think it resets after use, but don't know for sure. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: SHROUD I immediately wonder if appearing to be a harmful visitor would cause a Trap to kill the Shrouded player, but other than that seems fairly straightforward and I like it. It does! This happened to Pipe in his Cursed Soul video. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: WEREWOLF I like classic WW, and this is it! It's no longer Unique! Edited May 14, 2023 by omgitshim Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 1 hour ago, omgitshim said: Basically, the Wildling is a Tracker that passively tracks every single player every night. It's super strong (and makes Tracker claims super sus!) Two questions: -Is it actually "Player A visited Player B" and so on down the list? I interpreted this as a reverse old-Spy-sees-all-evil-visits mechanic. If so that's way more powerful than I thought. -I love you. How the fuck do you know all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 Just now, Gustav said: Two questions: -Is it actually "Player A visited Player B" and so on down the list? I interpreted this as a reverse old-Spy-sees-all-evil-visits mechanic. If so that's way more powerful than I thought. I assume so? I haven't actually seen it. Just now, Gustav said: -I love you. How the fuck do you know all this? I watched too much Pipetron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 Just now, omgitshim said: I watched too much Pipetron Even so there's no way I would have picked up on that many details. Lots of respect for this. Thankfully I think your clarifications, for the most part, work in ways that make it more forum-playable. There's still definitely some stuff I'll have to work with but I think it's certainly achievable as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 On 5/14/2023 at 9:48 AM, Gustav said: Even so there's no way I would have picked up on that many details. Lots of respect for this. Thankfully I think your clarifications, for the most part, work in ways that make it more forum-playable. There's still definitely some stuff I'll have to work with but I think it's certainly achievable as a whole. Well I was also curious on a lot of the new roles especially to see what I could use for custom roles in discord format As an aside: for Prosecutor, you could just have the day proceed as normal and the Prosecute just overwrites the voting results at the end of the day. It would have the one downside of allowing other day actions to go off after the Pros intended to end the day but it would keep it a lot simpler overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted May 15, 2023 Author Share Posted May 15, 2023 38 minutes ago, omgitshim said: Well I was also curious on a lot of the new roles especially to see what I could use for custom roles in discord format As an aside: for Prosecutor, you could just have the day proceed as normal and the Prosecute just overwrites the voting results at the end of the day. It would have the one downside of allowing other day actions to go off after the Pros intended to end the day but it would keep it a lot simpler overall. Then why not just…override the other day actions too? If the Prosecutor does their thing that should cancel out all that wouldn’t have counted otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/15/2023 at 2:40 PM, Gustav said: Then why not just…override the other day actions too? If the Prosecutor does their thing that should cancel out all that wouldn’t have counted otherwise. Yeah can do that too if Pros announces in the thread. Might be awkward if Deputy tries to shoot after though. Also, found out Jester gets a 1 time use Vest now. Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Update with Sheriff: Neutral Evils (Doomsayer, Exe, Jest, Pirate) appear sus but all other neutrals show inno. Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Veterans can be roleblocked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Patch update: • Trickster Reworked • Trickster may visit a player at night and play a trick on them, taunting that player into attacking them if able • If a Trickster is attacked by a player they taunted, the Trickster will counter-attack with a Powerful Attack • While a Trickster is tricking someone they will appear suspicious to the Sheriff • Trickster is now roleblock immune • Retributionist/Necromancer updated to now be able to reanimate a Trickster • Witch is now Taunt immune • Executioner will now visit their target the night they choose them • Executioner must now choose a target on night 1 and cannot change targets unless their target dies • Executioner can use their new special ability to choose a priority target for Torment • Wildling Reworked - Now sees who their target visits and who visits their target. Can also overhear whispers. • Spy can now also detect plague • Spy bugs now persist until triggered • When a player that is silenced goes on trial their text will be replaced with "..." one time • Same applies to a silenced prosecutor and silenced prosecutee • Jailor now deals a Powerful Attack (this only affects Admirer care protecting players in jail) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Another update: Trickster does not get defense when Tricking, so effectively they trade when successfully pulling in an attacker. Retri can use stoned roles! Not sure if it was a bug or not but if they selected an invalid role it would pop up the message "<Role> does not have an ability that can be used." If it is a useable role it doesn't say what it is but when you target someone it gives the "You decided to have your zombie <action> <target> tonight." (i.e. investigate, guard, etc.). Since that would be a pain to mod, I'd probably say that at night Retri learns the roles of stoned players? -patched out • All horsemen now see plagued player effects • All horsemen now see who has bread Edited June 21, 2023 by omgitshim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 19 hours ago, omgitshim said: Retri can use stoned roles! Not sure if it was a bug or not but if they selected an invalid role it would pop up the message "<Role> does not have an ability that can be used." If it is a useable role it doesn't say what it is but when you target someone it gives the "You decided to have your zombie <action> <target> tonight." (i.e. investigate, guard, etc.). Since that would be a pain to mod, I'd probably say that at night Retri learns the roles of stoned players? This was actually patched out, Retri can't use stoned roles. There was also clarification that Hex Bomb kills everyone no matter what (stronger than unstoppable attack, even the neutral apocs can't defend against it). They also added a ghost town mode: ghosts can still vote! In game this means that the majority to put up for trial counts all living and dead players (so will always be 8 in a full 15 game lobby unless there are DCs). Lemorse7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 They are patching this game too frequently Soul Collector now has Astral visits. Seer cannot target revealed town roles anymore. Trickster now has unlimited Tricks. Coroner autopsy message will now clearly state the role of the killer they can now check for. (I.e. if they check a corpse that was killed by a member of the Coven, they would know specifically that it was say a Coven Leader or whichever one did the kill). Coroners night ability is not affected by enchantment anymore. (Still affected by Illusionist). Werewolf can now permanently remember the scent of their target on human nights. Once a Werewolf has the scent of a target they will be able to track who their target visits each night. War's immense speed and combat prowess allows him to visit 2 players each night. Shroud will now attack their Shrouded target if that target fails to visit anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Plaguebearer/Pestilence Rework Plaguebearer's night priority increased above base priority. This allows PB to visit before most roles in the game and spread plague before other roles visit. This change should increase the rate of plague spreading as well as making it more consistent. Pestilence, Horsemen of the Apocalypse no longer has a direct attack, does not rampage, and does not attack players that visit them. When Pestilence emerges all plague on players will transform into pestilence. When a player visits someone they will spread a stack of pestilence. When a player visits Pestilence they will spread a stack of pestilence onto themselves. When Pestilence visits someone they will add the maximum stacks of pestilence to their target. At 3 stacks of pestilence a player will succumb to pestilence and die. Horsemen cannot have more than 1 stack of pestilence applied to them. Arsonist will now douse the jailor that jails them. (I thought that was already a thing) Werewolf scent tracking messages now indicate which player they are tracking. War is now roleblock immune. War will now attack a Jailor that jails them. Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 5 hours ago, omgitshim said: Plaguebearer's night priority increased above base priority. This allows PB to visit before most roles in the game and spread plague before other roles visit. This change should increase the rate of plague spreading as well as making it more consistent. Pestilence, Horsemen of the Apocalypse no longer has a direct attack, does not rampage, and does not attack players that visit them. When Pestilence emerges all plague on players will transform into pestilence. When a player visits someone they will spread a stack of pestilence. When a player visits Pestilence they will spread a stack of pestilence onto themselves. When Pestilence visits someone they will add the maximum stacks of pestilence to their target. At 3 stacks of pestilence a player will succumb to pestilence and die. Horsemen cannot have more than 1 stack of pestilence applied to them. Bruh This is like when you’re on the playground and the other kid starts dragging out the “oh yeah well I’m bulletproof and invisible and also I can go through walls” I still can’t get over “stacks of pestilence” but thanks. I promise I haven’t forgotten about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 On 7/24/2023 at 4:19 PM, Gustav said: Bruh This is like when you’re on the playground and the other kid starts dragging out the “oh yeah well I’m bulletproof and invisible and also I can go through walls” I still can’t get over “stacks of pestilence” but thanks. I promise I haven’t forgotten about this. I think they just wanted to make it more distinct from War since before they were both similar flavors of "just Rampage everyone". Why they decided on a more complex Famine for "diversity" idk but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted August 15, 2023 Author Share Posted August 15, 2023 Would like some clarification on the following: On 6/20/2023 at 6:23 PM, omgitshim said: All horsemen now see plagued player effects What do you mean by "effects" here? On 7/18/2023 at 9:33 AM, omgitshim said: Coroner autopsy message will now clearly state the role of the killer they can now check for. (I.e. if they check a corpse that was killed by a member of the Coven, they would know specifically that it was say a Coven Leader or whichever one did the kill). So does this mean that ToS2 messages just say "Coven" (as in regular ToS with Mafia) as opposed to giving specific roles (as with regular ToS Mafia)? More generic questions on roles that I have: -Does Pestilence know how many stacks are on each player? -Is there a list somewhere of roles that are roleblock/control/whatever immune? -Is there anything against Psychics using revealed Town roles (as with Seer)? Also with these roles, I'd consider a house rule that you can't target a player who has claimed Jailor--let me know if this is sensible. -Does Admirer cure effects like stacks of pestilence or give bread back to living players with Famine? I'm assuming no. -Also, if a non-Town member accepts a proposal, is that player a Lover or does it just waste the Admirer's ability? I'm also assuming yes but it would be good to clear this up. I have a separate thread now to draw up the rules that we're going to use--I have a few VHL-specific modifications in there so feel free to take a look through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gustav said: Would like some clarification on the following: What do you mean by "effects" here? All Horseman see who is plagued or has bread. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: So does this mean that ToS2 messages just say "Coven" (as in regular ToS with Mafia) as opposed to giving specific roles (as with regular ToS Mafia)? Yeah if the book holder kills it says "killed by the Coven" or something like that. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: More generic questions on roles that I have: -Does Pestilence know how many stacks are on each player? I assume so? But I haven't seen it in practice. I know there's a message "You have spread pestilence to the player you visited." for visiting with Pestilence. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: -Is there a list somewhere of roles that are roleblock/control/whatever immune? Not sure. The roles are on the wiki but they are incomplete. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: -Is there anything against Psychics using revealed Town roles (as with Seer)? Also with these roles, I'd consider a house rule that you can't target a player who has claimed Jailor--let me know if this is sensible. I'm not sure. That's a sensible rule but does that confirm them? Or if someone fake claims Jailor can they not be targeted too? 1 hour ago, Gustav said: -Does Admirer cure effects like stacks of pestilence or give bread back to living players with Famine? I'm assuming no. I assume no too. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: -Also, if a non-Town member accepts a proposal, is that player a Lover or does it just waste the Admirer's ability? I'm also assuming yes but it would be good to clear this up. It wastes it, though the Admirer knows that player is evil and can out them in their will. 1 hour ago, Gustav said: I have a separate thread now to draw up the rules that we're going to use--I have a few VHL-specific modifications in there so feel free to take a look through. Will look when I get a chance. Edited August 15, 2023 by omgitshim Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgitshim 898 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 6 hours ago, Gustav said: I have a separate thread now to draw up the rules that we're going to use--I have a few VHL-specific modifications in there so feel free to take a look through. ^^PSYCHIC Psychic is now slightly stronger (and slightly different) because of the ability to have a vision including a particular player. **If we start gaming this too hard or it becomes too powerful I might revert it back to the original ToS role. Definitely stronger, though visiting someone adds a bit of danger through ambush and rampage. Generally I support changes that increase player agency. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: SEER A Seer in VHL gameplay also may not target a revealed Prosecutor or Deputy. I believe they changed it in game that any Town revealed role cannot be selected at all anyway. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: **^^DEPUTY **In actual ToS2 gameplay, this role does not officially work like a Mayor reveal, but in our version, it will to offset delays between the action being taken and closing of the thread. A Deputy will make a post in the thread (which may not be edited or deleted later) stating their role and their target, and this will be officially confirmed by the moderator. Assuming the target dies, the day phase will end and the night phase will begin upon any day-phase death. Maybe this was one of the things you added for balance, but normally Deputy (and Conjurer) do NOT end the day phase after they kill someone. Prosecutor DOES because it takes over the hang for the day. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: MAYORPer omg's note in the draft thread, I believe that the last bullet point is worded wrong and that a Mayor can still be protected by a Bodyguard (and I will rule that a Mayor in Jail is granted the same level of defense there as any other role). This may change in the future depending on what we can continue to learn. I haven't really seen much on this tbh; I think the idea is the Bodyguard intercepts the attacker before the attack happens rather than granting defense, but again I don't know for sure. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: ^^**ADMIRER I also believe that "negative effects" includes hidden effects detectable by a Spy (Hexed, Doused, etc.) and will be treating this as such. I think it works most similar to like a ToS 1 GA purge. I know it definitely clears dousing at the very least. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: AMNESIAC The Amnesiac does not have control over the role that's remembered and will remember the first Town role that is in the graveyard. If multiple roles appear at the same time (ex. two deaths on N1), one will be chosen at random. One thing to note: it does prioritize Town Power roles if multiple roles die at the same time. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: ^^**CONJUROR For VHL gameplay, the Conjuror must submit their Day action (if desired) as a Discord message, with a ping, no less than 3 hours before the stated end of Day phase (in the morning post). If no time is given in that post, the Conjuror's deadline will be considered to be 7:00 PM Eastern. Killing a player with a meteor will immediately end the day phase upon mod post. Additionally--for the purposes of this game, a Deputy or Prosecutor action taken after submission of a Conjuror action but before a mod post will still count (and, presumably, two deaths will be recorded). Additionally, a Mayor reveal that takes place during this time will officially take effect the following morning--the Mayor will be confirmed at that point but is still afforded the same ability to be protected as before revealing for that night. This is not how either situation works in real gameplay but I see it as the only way to avoid severely disadvantaging either Town or Coven with mod delays. I mentioned it with Deputy, but Conjuror's ability does NOT end the day phase normally. Arguably allowing it to do so would be too strong since Coven could force skip a full day with it. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: RITUALIST This does not specify, but I believe the Ritualist will be revealed in private to their target upon an incorrect guess (in the same way as Ambusher from ToS1). Ritualist is revealed to EVERYONE if they guess wrong. "Player cast a spell on someone, but it backfired! They must be a Ritualist!" 6 hours ago, Gustav said: POTION MASTER Same potions, different ways to use them. This says nothing about a cooldown (you should be able to protect twice in a row or reveal twice in a row) and the attack potion isn't accessible until getting the Necronomicon. No cooldown. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: Neutral Roles Neutral Apocalypse *Neutral Apocalypse roles are limited to 1 per game in standard role sets. We do not know if this is the case in Any All modes. In Four Horsemen mode, all appear at once. All Neutral Apocalypse roles may see players with bread, as well as plagued player effects. This restriction was removed, at least for All Any modes. I honestly couldn't tell you what the standard role sets even are 6 hours ago, Gustav said: DOOMSAYER Attributes: - If you correctly guess the roles of all three players, they will be dealt an Unstoppable Attack. - You cannot guess Town Investigative roles. Note that for Town you must guess the exact role, but for evils you just need to guess their alignment (Neutral Evil, Neutral Killing, Neutral Apoc, or Random Coven). 6 hours ago, Gustav said: SERIAL KILLER We don't stack up Bloodlust kills--if one is Bloodlust, the next one won't be. Note that the 2 kills needed to build up Bloodlust can come on the same night. i.e. if you kill your target N1 and also kill a Tavern Keeper who tried to RB you N1, you'd have Bloodlust on N2. 6 hours ago, Gustav said: SHROUD Yes, a Shrouded player appearing harmful will set off a trap and be killed by a Trapper. I'm going to imagine the same applies for Bodyguard defenses. I've seen a Shrouded Bodyguard protecting their target by killing themselves (died protecting their target and also from a BG). 6 hours ago, Gustav said: WEREWOLF - On non-Werewolf nights, you may visit a player to record their scent. - You will be able to permanently track players whose scent has been recorded, seeing their visits throughout the game. I will rule (for now) that you will not see visits of players revived by a Retributionist or Necromancer. Trackers went from one of the safer TI claims in ToS 1 to immediately being sus'd as Werewolf and Wildling in ToS 2. Gustav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,117 Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 On 8/15/2023 at 4:33 AM, omgitshim said: I believe they changed it in game that any Town revealed role cannot be selected at all anyway. I updated this here and also added it to other role-guessing roles (ex. Doomsayer). I'm thinking about adding Jailor to the list but not sure. On 8/15/2023 at 4:33 AM, omgitshim said: Maybe this was one of the things you added for balance, but normally Deputy (and Conjurer) do NOT end the day phase after they kill someone. Prosecutor DOES because it takes over the hang for the day. I didn't know this and now it's fixed. On 8/15/2023 at 4:33 AM, omgitshim said: I haven't really seen much on this tbh; I think the idea is the Bodyguard intercepts the attacker before the attack happens rather than granting defense, but again I don't know for sure. I have this in there for now. Maybe it changes when we learn more about it but at least the standard is set. Added all the rest as stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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