The VHLM is quiet and Recruitment is so different right now

[Daniel Janser 2,037]

12 hours ago, Spartan said:

"Hey no offense, you do an absolute shit job. No offense though."

The following is semi-related:

 

Zetterberg's message basically was that something needs to be changed and that it appears that recruitment does not meet the goals of creating a steady flow of new members.

 

I would not have delivered the message the way Z did, but it is not a good look, that recruitment then posted his original forum post (which is kind of an interna) on social media with the context 'pitiful'. 

 

It does not help that the community by and large has no clue what is going on in the recruitment team. Or if they even are aware of the concerns of VHLM GM's. And if they knew a short 'We know that there is a lack of new members and we are urgently working on new ways to attract same' would have been more helpful than to retaliate imo.

 

People are more concerned how a message is delivered (and again, I would probably not have been that outspoken as Z was) than the message itself. I.e. 'I deny the validity of your argument/concerns, because I do not like the way you conveyed the message.'

[Triller 1,477]

6 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

that recruitment then posted his original forum post (which is kind of an interna) on social media with the context 'pitiful'. 

Holy crap you all can't handle it can you.  Pitiful in the song was meant to show how pitiful the instagram account was according to Zetterberg.  They were trying to lighten the mood by taking a jab at themselves.  Also, you don't have to be a member here to browse the forum.  "Internal" lol its the internet.

[Daniel Janser 2,037]

13 minutes ago, Triller said:

Holy crap you all can't handle it can you.  Pitiful in the song was meant to show how pitiful the instagram account was according to Zetterberg.  They were trying to lighten the mood by taking a jab at themselves.  Also, you don't have to be a member here to browse the forum.  "Internal" lol its the internet.

Even if the intention for the post was as you describe it, it does not look good either way. And yes the forum is on the internet, but the chances that somebody browses it randomly and reads exactly that post of all the thousands available is rather small.

 

As to the 'Holy crap you all can't handle it can you' (sic): I hope the irony is not lost on you

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Daniel Janser

[Triller 1,477]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Janser said:

Even if the intention for the post was as you describe it, it does not look good either way. And yes the forum is on the internet, but the chances that somebody browses it randomly and reads exactly that post of all the thousands available is rather small.

 

As to the 'Holy crap you all can't handle it can you' (sic): I hope the irony is not lost on you

 

Nobody sees the account that is the whole issue.  Also, I don't see the irony.  I'm not on the recruitment team.  Explain it to me Daniel.

[Spartan 4,150]

6 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

People are more concerned how a message is delivered (and again, I would probably not have been that outspoken as Z was) than the message itself. I.e. 'I deny the validity of your argument/concerns, because I do not like the way you conveyed the message.'

If you'd like to make this a "wow everyone is soft" tangent, feel free. The actual work will be done, and is being done, where these narratives don't permeate - in the recruitment server. I don't think recruitment has denied that they have not had success. If anything it's been in response to the various brash statements that I posted earlier in the thread that were unnecessary to providing constructive criticism and suggestions.

 

So yeah, miss me with the "oh no people can't take criticism" if you also can't understand what a civil conversation with one another is.

[Daniel Janser 2,037]

8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

So yeah, miss me with the "oh no people can't take criticism" if you also can't understand what a civil conversation with one another is.

I seem to have not been clear. I do not think that Z chose the right tone to convey his concern. I for myself endeavour (with mixed results admittedly) to remain calm and factual in any dispute I enter into. I prefer Jacob's approach for the record. Or others' who followed after Z aired out his grief. A valid question is whether these more constructive threads would have been posted, if it wasn't for Z's controversial post and the ensuing back and forth on the topic. I am aware that correlation does not necessarily mean causation, in this case I think it is related though.

 

 

[Daniel Janser 2,037]

27 minutes ago, Triller said:

Nobody sees the account that is the whole issue.  Also, I don't see the irony.  I'm not on the recruitment team.  Explain it to me Daniel.

I never said you are part of the recruitment team. Considering that you seem to exactly know what the intention of the social media post was and you seem to defend that post, that is what I am referring to. Because that post was at best unnecessary and at worst harmed the VHL's reputation and was published I believe by recruitment (if I am factually wrong, mea culpa).

 

That was the context of my 'irony statement'. Recruitment found it difficult to accept Z's valid concern about the outcome of the team's success in attracting new members and in reply re-posted his article on social media.

 

Anyway, apparently there are new recruitment drives in the work and I am excited to see the next wave of first-gen (or returning members) come in in its wake.

 

 

[Triller 1,477]

18 minutes ago, Daniel Janser said:

I never said you are part of the recruitment team. Considering that you seem to exactly know what the intention of the social media post was and you seem to defend that post, that is what I am referring to. Because that post was at best unnecessary and at worst harmed the VHL's reputation and was published I believe by recruitment (if I am factually wrong, mea culpa).

 

That was the context of my 'irony statement'. Recruitment found it difficult to accept Z's valid concern about the outcome of the team's success in attracting new members and in reply re-posted his article on social media.

 

Anyway, apparently there are new recruitment drives in the work and I am excited to see the next wave of first-gen (or returning members) come in in its wake.

 

 

Lol harmed the VHLs reputation.  Again, you don't have to be a member to browse these forums so the post stating that people who are volunteering their time here to try and keep the league going are "bad", isn't drawing people to this kind community.

 

Recruitment didn't find it hard.  As long as I've been here they have been criticised.  They are working on recruitment like they always have.  The suggestions made were already something they tried on Instagram to no more success than posting graphics but again it wasn't that they weren't doing something it was that someone didn't like one of the things they were doing so specifically that they then targeted specific posts and called out the creator of the graphic for doing a bad job and the person who posted it.

 

Also, I will always defend anyone who is trying to make this place better.  Some just talk about it, others are trying to do it.

[Spartan 4,150]

37 minutes ago, Daniel Janser said:

I seem to have not been clear. I do not think that Z chose the right tone to convey his concern. I for myself endeavour (with mixed results admittedly) to remain calm and factual in any dispute I enter into. I prefer Jacob's approach for the record. Or others' who followed after Z aired out his grief. A valid question is whether these more constructive threads would have been posted, if it wasn't for Z's controversial post and the ensuing back and forth on the topic. I am aware that correlation does not necessarily mean causation, in this case I think it is related though.

Right, this point is different than your original post of "people care more about message delivery than the message." If in terms of message delivery, you mean bringing up valid concerns and offering solutions is better than just saying people's current efforts are worthless, then sure - I agree. Some of y'all really need to not just pull overused buzz words and phrases without understanding their definitions and use cases.

 

I agree that these more brazen posts end up getting more interactions by default due to the community feasting on drama. But there are plenty of posts that raise issues that also generate worthwhile discussion without putting others down (Gus is a good example, Sam has done it in the past as well, others can be provided if you need links to threads). Not every productive conversation needs to start with ragebait or someone being a dick to someone else.

[JCarson 644]

Article review:  I am definitely coming into this conversation late and can be seen by the multiple media spots and comments that this and many other articles have garnered.  I don't plan on adding anything new to this conversation as I think that many with great wisdom have already addressed the difference between targeting an individual vs addressing a topic.  What I find specifically appealing about this article is that it provides an insight into actual business workings.  If this area of business intrigues you I would recommend you find a book called "The Game of Numbers" written by Nick Murray.  It focusses particularly on the Financial Planning industry and addresses the reality that most businesses (actually all businesses) don't need to reach everyone, you don't need to sell to everyone, in fact most businesses only need to sell to a small fraction of the total population.  In fact most businesses need to purposefully opt some people out of even being potential customers as they will never meet the product or service requirements.  All this to say that addressing the largest group of potential new recruits frequently and in a manner than catches their interest will over time draw people in.  Targeting specific markets and being conscious of how and when you so that will potentially increase that percent of adoption.

I give this article a 9/10, hoping that open communication of this nature can help in the long run and we can bring new people to the VHL who will enjoy this for years to come.

[jacobcarson877 2,200]

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