fragmented thoughts with fishy #5

[fishy 1,757]

1. holidays are finally fucking over. we’re getting a lot of snow. driving terrifies me. you see where i’m going with this.
2. i’m kind of excited because i know exactly what i’m going to do my vhl.com radio on. i hope that vhle and vhl gms actually listen to it. it’s about them and i want them to know what i have to say.
3. as terrible as this sounds, the recent bans that the mod team has given out has been a nice presentation of the changes we’re working at. i think we’ve done a lot better about transparency, and i think that people who were exceptionally pissy at us have noticed that we’re doing better about it. we talked about those changes a while ago, but this has been the first chance that we’ve had to actually show our work rather than “we hear your complaints and we’ll respond accordingly.”
4. it’s interesting to see how people react to bans and punishments. i think that it’s a common misconception that an individual is “bad” when they receive a punishment. specifically with the cases concerning multis, nobody thinks that any of the users who got slapped are shitty people. i have no idea who @16z was trying to throw shade at in his most recent status update. if i had to guess, though, i’d imagine that it has something to do with the fact that people don’t just disown their friends when they get smacked. i think it’s stupid to think that you would and lowkey embarrassing to suggest that i should blacklist everyone who gets in trouble. yes, people broke the rules and then they got slapped for it. no, that doesn’t mean that everyone who got caught is a shitty person. that line of thinking is outrageous. they got in trouble, we move on. they don’t do it again. why are we trying to create some kind of moral high ground over people who fuck up and then get caught? dumb. be fucking kind to each other

[diacope 1,696]

There's so many other members who wont abuse the rules, not saying blacklist and lock them up lmao, all manager jobs should be lost a their and players should be reset though. It's a bad look and they changed a lot of experiences for other members, not to mentionspread paranoia and ruined the leagues integrity. Do you even like hockey? Anybody can make a multi and get slapper on the wrist at this point lmao

[Dom 1,445]

28 minutes ago, 16z said:

There's so many other members who wont abuse the rules, not saying blacklist and lock them up lmao, all manager jobs should be lost a their and players should be reset though. It's a bad look and they changed a lot of experiences for other members, not to mentionspread paranoia and ruined the leagues integrity. Do you even like hockey? Anybody can make a multi and get slapper on the wrist at this point lmao

What looks bad right now is that members want permanent bans for multis and want a simple warning for harassment. By listening to the community, we should let people harass and bully each others as long as they are not cheating. They made mistakes, they are punished and we can move on. 

[diacope 1,696]

43 minutes ago, Dom said:

What looks bad right now is that members want permanent bans for multis and want a simple warning for harassment. By listening to the community, we should let people harass and bully each others as long as they are not cheating. They made mistakes, they are punished and we can move on. 

 

Not sure what rules should be implemented or what a reasonable length would be because I have zero experience but I've been harassed plenty of times, I can close the laptop and leave. I cant do nothing about cheaters because what has happened has already happened.. It's a simulation league. Both should be punished the same depending on how bad the harassment was.. It's just a shame that right after and most of us still being shocked we see apologies, not sure if it was bad advice or the lack of feelings towards the rest of us because what they did was wrong and the last thing I want to see is a member being treated better than other deserving members, if I do something bad I feel ashamed and nobody has my back, why is this different? You guys are friends, not only that it's not a good look when you guys group up together to make a point, this is how I feel and if I'm a crazy copy pasta keep on screenshotting. Been part of simulation my whole life and if our league wasn't a joke already this just made it worse

[diacope 1,696]

Thinking about it more.. Cheaters are even worse because not only are they changing the atmosphere.. They are also making managers and members they were close to lose trust and all those emotions 

. 

[Dom 1,445]

2 minutes ago, 16z said:

 

Not sure what rules should be implemented or what a reasonable length would be because I have zero experience but I've been harassed plenty of times, I can close the laptop and leave. I cant do nothing about cheaters because what has happened has already happened.. It's a simulation league. Both should be punished the same depending on how bad the harassment was.. It's just a shame that right after and most of us still being shocked we see apologies, not sure if it was bad advice or the lack of feelings towards the rest of us because what they did was wrong and the last thing I want to see is a member being treated better than other deserving members, if I do something bad I feel ashamed and nobody has my back, why is this different? You guys are friends, not only that it's not a good look when you guys group up together to make a point, this is how I feel and if I'm a crazy copy pasta keep on screenshotting. Been part of simulation my whole life and if our league wasn't a joke already this just made it worse

My point is that the TPE-ban is their punishment. The whole league pointing at them like they are the devil in person is too much and I speak for everyone who got caught. Not only those who I consider friends. The list of people who made mistakes in the league is long and will always keep getting longer. We can't just exile all of them at the first mistake. I understand that you are upset and you have all the rights to be upset but please let them attempt learn from it and get their things together.  Let's not forget that all of these users are at their first offense.

[diacope 1,696]

17 minutes ago, Dom said:

My point is that the TPE-ban is their punishment. The whole league pointing at them like they are the devil in person is too much and I speak for everyone who got caught. Not only those who I consider friends. The list of people who made mistakes in the league is long and will always keep getting longer. We can't just exile all of them at the first mistake. I understand that you are upset and you have all the rights to be upset but please let them attempt learn from it and get their things together.  Let's not forget that all of these users are at their first offense.

That's what I'm saying, how many more "new" members will do this for their first offence if the consequence is so small?

Edited December 28, 2021 by 16z

[diacope 1,696]

Not saying the league should treat them like a demon.. I may be too serious with my wording sometimes. I just been in positions where I did something wrong and nobody told me it was okay and to not do it again, nobody treated me like shit though and all i wanted to do was prove them wrong the next time, some never get over it and use copy pasta but I move on myself so it doesn't matter. This definitely shouldn't be swept under the rug and we cant all get along right after, I'm still shocked!

Edited December 28, 2021 by 16z

[fishy 1,757]

@16z  I'm not going to sit here and quote each of your posts and break down what I disagree with. It's a waste of my time because it's petty, and I'm not trying to be an asshole.

 

My point was similar to what Dom is saying. You and I disagree, that's chill. I'm not out here saying that you're a shitty person because we have different opinions. You shared your thoughts in a public post on the forums, I shared my thoughts in a public post on the forums. That's it. You said yourself: "we all have opinions and if you don't agree with mine so be it"

 

Not once did I say anything about your character, so I don't know why we went from a simple disagreement to "I thought we were friends." If you're upset that we disagree, cool, chill, live your truth, but don't act like I'm going out of my way to shit on you when all I did was comment on your shady status

 

[diacope 1,696]

I agree with it all but the confusion and tag for a vhl.com article, if you are chill be chill and leave me the fuck out of your business. Anyways peace

[Daniel Janser 2,159]

18 hours ago, Dom said:

What looks bad right now is that members want permanent bans for multis and want a simple warning for harassment. By listening to the community, we should let people harass and bully each others as long as they are not cheating. They made mistakes, they are punished and we can move on. 

I  do not quite agree. Having multis is an objective standard, there is not much room left for interpretation. Being harassed is most of the time a subjective feeling. That does not mean that I support any harassment in any way, shape or form. For example if I were to call my brother names in the forums or discord, he knows I am just pulling his leg, we have done that for close to thirty years (I am aware that this might not be the most healthy behaviour but this is beside the point). In an other instance, I used a very common word, which has no inherent condescending or otherwise negative meaning that I am aware of (to the contrary, afaik it is a word to express sympathy or affection) in a conversation with the conning artist formerly known as Horcrux. Which they called out and asked me not to use again. I said my apologies, assured it was not meant as an insult and that I will respect their wish to not use that word anymore when talking to them.

As to first offenders: How is creating six! additional accounts spread out over a considerable amount of time a first offense? The first multi-account, yes I can see that. But every time, a user creates an account/player, they agree not to open an additional one. I am aware that this is not a court room and I do believe in second chances per se. Having said that, if I do not know a specific law in my private life and am in violation of same, I will be held responsible for said violation and the feeble excuse 'I did not know it' will be answered with 'Well, you should have'  and will do jack all for my case.

I am not advocating now for harsher punishments, the damage is done, the sentence given. Let's move on. I do think Shindigs suggestion to compensate franchises who wasted a pick to acquire the rights of one or even several multis should be somewhat compensated for the loss of the respective pick. However, I see challenges for that, as now all the other clubs who get 'pushed' back with their picks are not to blame either and get worse picks if additional 'compensation picks' were created... quite a pickle here...