What is your opinion?

[AJW 2,196]

Another controversy, not really, I want opinions. New member recruitment retention is always on my mind and my brain thought of another idea that I’m not 100% on. Instead of posting this somewhere special I figured why not write a .com and see what others think if they see it. So recently in the discord channels of the VHL, a question was brought up:

 

”What is your opinion on how other leagues have draft class servers?”

 

To then a response:

 

”Pretty much just goes back to our earlier discussions on mentors and whether that'd be feasible for the VHL to operate”

 

Pretty bang on in my thoughts, we’ve talked about this topic many times before not only on discord, but through multiple threads here on the forum. Two members later responded:

 

- “I found it very helpful in the PBE to help learn how things were done there.”

- “That's a suggestion.  It worked for me in shl.”

 

Is this just a VHLM GM job? Is a discord server where all rookies are invited to that contains all the right members of the league (VHL/E/M GMs, Recruitment, BOG?, etc.) a good resource for us to have? Is this seen as a mentor job? Well, you can either shit on the VHL parade like most people do, including myself many times in the past, or… suggest a way to change things up. My idea is this, and is why I am unsure and want opinions:

Beketov has an automated messaging system set up on the forum to help guide new members with a few helpful links once they join the league. I can’t quote exactly what it says since I don’t have it in front of me, but in my opinion the only thing it does not contain is LIFE! There’s no humans in there! Bek is human, I’m pretty sure, but he’s not going to be messaging every single new member of course. What if instead of Bek having the automated message sent out, the recruitment team would instead be plugged to that message. Every time a new player is created, an automated private message is set up on the forum between the new member and the recruitment team. Then and there the player is able to reach out if needed to a hopefully active group of responders when needed. This could flood recruitment member’s DMs which was my first issue with this idea. I don’t know if it could be coded in a way that the recruitment team doesn’t hate it, but some might start to hate it if implemented.
 

Personally I do like the idea of Discord server more. A discord server with all GMs and other league positions will always sound the most appealing to me… Discord is an essential tool that many of us use, I even suggested for new player threads to contain discord usernames, and I think it’s gonna happen soon!… If we’re talking about “mentors”, all the GMs from each league who joins this server would become the “mentors”.
 

If the discord server idea is a no, then why not try for a better way on the forum? A place that we try to get new users checking everyday. Either way, plain and simple, I’m not 100% on any of this at all. So what do you think VHL? @Banackock is this something recruitment would even be interested in at all? Am I crazy? What is your opinion?

 

[Ricer13 2,824]

I do like the server idea more. I’m that automated message that new players get it could provide a link to their specific draft class server. In each server you could have a handful of GMs from any league, recruitment team members, etc. The nice thing about servers is they’re just used to help players get a grip on how things work in the league and then after a few seasons the servers can be deleted or recycled. 

[mattyIceman 1,229]

It's helped me in shl and ssl, so volunteers that can help out newbies navigate the league.

 

I know what you're thinking, isn't this the GM job??  Isn't that what the #newcomers channel is for??

 

Well, yeah.

 

The issue is, when scouting for activity, all GMs would have to have access to all the servers, rather than just the one.

 

Secondly, if, for any reason, anyone needs immediate help for any reason, someone should be active in that one server to help.

 

Also, what if they are NOT in the VHL discord server for any personal reason?  The scope and purpose of the proposed server is much smaller and could be more personalized.

 

Don't forget to mention possible player rivalries that could erupt out of there, that may possibly lead to retention and higher and consistent earning.

 

Obviously after every draft the server gets nuked (I have the unfortunate experience with this, sorry Houston) and begins anew after a trade deadline.

[Spartan 4,531]

7 minutes ago, mattyIceman said:

The issue is, when scouting for activity, all GMs would have to have access to all the servers, rather than just the one.

I'm still of the opinion that it's not the league's job to make GM scouting easier than it already is to send a DM to a member. Sure, GM's can make handshake agreements to let each other into their servers to find users easier or check out their public activity. I just don't see myself advocating for forcing everyone to be allowed to be in every other M team's LRs and see all chats.

 

23 minutes ago, AJW said:

If we’re talking about “mentors”, all the GMs from each league who joins this server would become the “mentors”.

So if this a situation where "if someone wants to be of help, they'd join the server and make the self available with a role" is the whole point of the server just a consolidated version of the VHL main server where the entire GM user list is implied to be available to reach out to? Just trying to figure out what the expectations are, and what the logistics look like.

 

Additionally, who owns the servers? Would we need oversight from the league? Just want to hear some more details on how this would work since that's usually what spurs further BoG discussion to consider implementation.

[Beketov 9,101]

46 minutes ago, AJW said:

Bek is human, I’m pretty sure

 

47 minutes ago, AJW said:

What if instead of Bek having the automated message sent out, the recruitment team would instead be plugged to that message. Every time a new player is created, an automated private message is set up on the forum between the new member and the recruitment team. Then and there the player is able to reach out if needed to a hopefully active group of responders when needed.

So the auto-message doesn't have to come from me, it can come from any user ID. I think it has to be an individual though, I don't think you can set multiple people as recipients but anyway. It is a normal DM though, it's not some special thing that the member receives and I don't. My inbox currently looks like this:

 

 

So like people can respond to me and I will answer questions. It's rare but it could happen.

 

I'm not saying the content of that message is perfect, we've discussed changing it a boatload of times, but I don't really see how making it come from a different person would change much. By all means we can, I would love to have my inbox back, but it's not a message that I can't respond to, it's simply automated.

[Hogan 1,425]

Wait until this guy finds out about the newcomers channel 

[Spartan 4,531]

9 minutes ago, Beketov said:

 

So the auto-message doesn't have to come from me, it can come from any user ID. I think it has to be an individual though, I don't think you can set multiple people as recipients but anyway. It is a normal DM though, it's not some special thing that the member receives and I don't. My inbox currently looks like this:

 

 

So like people can respond to me and I will answer questions. It's rare but it could happen.

 

I'm not saying the content of that message is perfect, we've discussed changing it a boatload of times, but I don't really see how making it come from a different person would change much. By all means we can, I would love to have my inbox back, but it's not a message that I can't respond to, it's simply automated.

Would it make sense at all for it to come from either recruitment head or an M commish?

[Pifferfish 597]

39 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I'm still of the opinion that it's not the league's job to make GM scouting easier than it already is to send a DM to a member. Sure, GM's can make handshake agreements to let each other into their servers to find users easier or check out their public activity. I just don't see myself advocating for forcing everyone to be allowed to be in every other M team's LRs and see all chats.

 

So if this a situation where "if someone wants to be of help, they'd join the server and make the self available with a role" is the whole point of the server just a consolidated version of the VHL main server where the entire GM user list is implied to be available to reach out to? Just trying to figure out what the expectations are, and what the logistics look like.

 

Additionally, who owns the servers? Would we need oversight from the league? Just want to hear some more details on how this would work since that's usually what spurs further BoG discussion to consider implementation.

To the point of M LR access, when I was GM I had access to every LR and all I needed to see was the Mee6 bot level up messages to see who was active. If a user was leveling up multiple times in the same month I could see they were active without having to see the messages. Could they be toxic, maybe. But that's part of the fog of war so to speak and why I also advocate that GMs across all leagues should be willing to ask other M GMs about players. When Masu was in Istanbul I personally reached out and gave the scoop on which of my players were good LR assets and which maybe needed the right environment to be coaxed out of their shell a bit. But communication and access for GMs is necessary, but it doesn't have to be full frontal.

[Pifferfish 597]

26 minutes ago, Beketov said:

 

So the auto-message doesn't have to come from me, it can come from any user ID. I think it has to be an individual though, I don't think you can set multiple people as recipients but anyway. It is a normal DM though, it's not some special thing that the member receives and I don't. My inbox currently looks like this:

 

 

So like people can respond to me and I will answer questions. It's rare but it could happen.

 

I'm not saying the content of that message is perfect, we've discussed changing it a boatload of times, but I don't really see how making it come from a different person would change much. By all means we can, I would love to have my inbox back, but it's not a message that I can't respond to, it's simply automated.

Could make a dummy recruitment team account specifically for this purpose that the whole team has the login for. Not saying that suggestion is perfect but I'm spitballing.

[mattyIceman 1,229]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

I just don't see myself advocating for forcing everyone to be allowed to be in every other M team's LRs and see all chats.

 

Yeah I recall the days when I was in nearly every LR and at some points I was like, where the heck am I?  Get does get confusing and convoluted, NGL.

 

Also, I forgot to mention that this server would/could/should be an unofficial one, with no actual job pay.  It would be a volunteership.  Also, GMs shouldn't be allowed to chat in there, but monitor activity.  If they do want to reach out to a specific player, they would dm.  It would be strictly draftees and mentors chatting live.  GMs would lurk.  Keeps chat simple.

 

Perhaps posting some exclusive pressers for them could be an idea.  VSN coverage could be simplified.  Mock drafts, TDL theme weeks, maybe this opens up a task in the future that only draftees can do.

 

Win win win

[jacobcarson877 2,563]

JST revamp??

[AJW 2,196]

1 hour ago, jacobcarson877 said:

JST revamp??

This was actually part of discussions

[jacobcarson877 2,563]

16 minutes ago, AJW said:

This was actually part of discussions

I know my dream for the JST is that it becomes the landing spot for new players, they can ask their questions and such, get like waiver scouted by GMs, hang out with their class, get VHLM specific pings, maybe even a draft class role and then the tournament at the end of each season. Obviously Alex, N0H and I as a base for mentoring, the VHLM GMs should be around, and maybe some other volunteers, I know some people who have offered before when I've thought about the idea. Goes along nicely with a spot on the forum for newcomer tools, and then the JST Sims.

Also really like the WJC/WC combination idea I've seen in other leagues where you foster a bit more of a pipeline, cheering on the team in the World Cup as you compete in the Juniors, build a bit more of a permanent connection to your long-term teammates, consistent, or at least season-long known GMs, recruiting players to their countries, international transfers, there's lots of wonderful things to steal, and maybe can help hype up the increasingly dreary offseason tournaments. I know that's been a discussion in the background, so just some more things to think about.

I know you've been a real advocate for the rookie mentor/draft class landing spot idea over the last few years, and I've flip-flopped a few times mostly because I don't know what recruitment does, and I don't know where the gaps are between the VHLM GMs and Recruitment, but I'm currently on board!

[Beketov 9,101]

5 hours ago, Spartan said:

Would it make sense at all for it to come from either recruitment head or an M commish?

I mean like I said, I would be totally fine getting it off of me. The vast majority of people don’t respond to it anyway but having all those DM’s does make finding any that I need quite difficult.

[mattyIceman 1,229]

2 hours ago, jacobcarson877 said:

I know my dream for the JST is that it becomes the landing spot for new players, they can ask their questions and such, get like waiver scouted by GMs, hang out with their class, get VHLM specific pings, maybe even a draft class role and then the tournament at the end of each season. Obviously Alex, N0H and I as a base for mentoring, the VHLM GMs should be around, and maybe some other volunteers, I know some people who have offered before when I've thought about the idea. Goes along nicely with a spot on the forum for newcomer tools, and then the JST Sims.

 

That's close to the idea I had.  A place with only the basics and all the links to everything capping off with the JST.  That automated message could include the discord server invite and they'd be dropped in at the right place from the get-go.  It's just so simple.

[mmrs617 362]

7 hours ago, Pifferfish said:

Could make a dummy recruitment team account specifically for this purpose that the whole team has the login for. Not saying that suggestion is perfect but I'm spitballing.

What about a second inbox for the recruitment team instead. That way people don't have to log in and out of accounts and it would be more personal than getting a message from an unknown person.

[Beketov 9,101]

1 hour ago, mmrs617 said:

What about a second inbox for the recruitment team instead. That way people don't have to log in and out of accounts and it would be more personal than getting a message from an unknown person.

What do you mean a second inbox? As far as aim aware we can’t add secondary inboxes.

[mmrs617 362]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

What do you mean a second inbox? As far as aim aware we can’t add secondary inboxes.

I wasn't sure. I just feel like the best way to help a new member is if they had contact with someone within the first 24 hours. I know they get the welcome message, but I feel like it is a bit of an info dump that can be hard to process.

I would suggest the welcome message link to one place that gives the basics of the league (What it's all about, what is TPE, How to earn TPE, and How to join a team). I think this is less overwhelming for someone who has no experience with sim leagues at all. Maybe at the end of the welcome message there is some sort of confirmation that they've read it (like a google form or a poll) which the recruitment team can access. Then a member of the recruitment team can sign up to mentor that player until they join a team and are comfortable to continue on their own.