Bypass the VHLM

[Molholt 2,185]

It seems like contraction of the VHLM might be a given, and might be coming soon (happened). Frankly, I would welcome it with open arms. I don't like the VHLM and I've never been one to shy away from mentioning that, but having more competitiveness couldn't hurt. I think that with contraction, the league should try to find a way to allow veteran members a way to bypass the VHLM altogether. YEAH! wrote an article this week (weeks ago) about all of his bad experiences with the VHLM and his lack of desire to go back through it. The VHLM makes a lot of sense for new members, as they can learn how the league works and get familiar with our systems before entering the VHL. I don't think we need to have that phase for returning and veteran members, if they'd rather go straight through to the VHL. I don't immediately have any great ways to implement this, so let's figure it out as we go.

 

My first thought is just to take whatever carryover a player gets and double it if they want to bypass the VHLM. They'd enter the draft straight away and be eligible for the VHL. This works great for members who have 75 carryover, as they'd have 150 TPE and then, if they retired at the trade deadline like a lot of people do, they'd have half a season to earn TPE that would put them over 200 TPE heading into their rookie season. If you wanted to play your one VHLM season, you'd take the 75 carryover without it being doubled and then earn whatever TPE you could in that time-frame. I think that most active people would earn more TPE by staying down for that season and earning as much TPE as they could, but those who don't like the VHLM as much, or want to get into the VHL as fast as possible, could forego some of that TPE to go straight into the pros.

 

Another idea is just to offer a flat TPE amount to those who want to go straight into the VHL. In the SBA, you can get a bonus chunk of TPE if you enter the draft after your freshman year, 50 TPE. I've never thought this was enough of an incentive, and people never go for it (I don't blame them), but something like that might could work. If you retire and would like to go straight into the pros, we could just give the user 150 TPE if they retire at the beginning of the season or 100 if they retire at the deadline, giving them a bigger boost to kickstart their career. I'd say that carryover would still be added to these totals. So, the 150 TPE option would mean that you wouldn't join the VHLM at all, if you retired in the offseason, your next player could immediately enter the draft and play in the VHL, so if you had max carryover, you'd get the 150 TPE + 75 carryover and start your career with 225 TPE (all of these numbers could be adjusted). If you retired at the deadline, you'd get less of a TPE chunk, 100 in this example, but you'd join the VHLM for half a season, like you do now. Instead of playing another full VHLM season you'd be drafted into the VHL and go straight to the pros. So a player with max carryover would get 100 TPE + 75 carryover, putting them at 175 TPE with a half season to earn TPE before the draft. Again, these numbers could be adjusted but I think a TPE incentive to be able to skip the VHLM might give users the option to bypass the minor league if they'd like, which is more for first-gen development in my opinion. 

 

Another thought would be to give a player 20% of his past TPE and put him straight into the draft. You could cap this number, at say, 225 or 200 TPE, but to get to that level you'd have to have had a player with 1,000 or more TPE that just retired. Sure, if I retired Max I'd get 200 TPE and be put straight into the next available draft with no time in the VHLM, and 200 TPE sounds like a lot - but I'd be skipping out on VHLM Development, Achievement Tracker and cash. I'd sacrifice those things to be able to bypass the minor league and go straight to the pros, but the number would have to be high to incentivize people to do that. I think 20% with a 200 or 250 cap would be good, something that rewards high TPE earning in a career, but also puts players on par or slightly below what an active member could earn by going through the VHLM system.

 

- When I wrote this I thought there would be more than one team contracted. I still think there should be.

 

-- Again, this was a magazine article but the last post I made got more traffic than the entire magazine, so I'm still testing.

[frescoelmo 1,276]

1 hour ago, Molholt said:

My first thought is just to take whatever carryover a player gets and double it if they want to bypass the VHLM. They'd enter the draft straight away and be eligible for the VHL. This works great for members who have 75 carryover, as they'd have 150 TPE and then, if they retired at the trade deadline like a lot of people do, they'd have half a season to earn TPE that would put them over 200 TPE heading into their rookie season. If you wanted to play your one VHLM season, you'd take the 75 carryover without it being doubled and then earn whatever TPE you could in that time-frame. I think that most active people would earn more TPE by staying down for that season and earning as much TPE as they could, but those who don't like the VHLM as much, or want to get into the VHL as fast as possible, could forego some of that TPE to go straight into the pros.

 

td;dr except for this part...  where I think it's only fair to reduce the maximum career length given the additional boost.

[Molholt 2,185]

1 minute ago, frescoelmo said:

 

td;dr except for this part...  where I think it's only fair to reduce the maximum career length given the additional boost.

 

It wouldn't be "additional" compared to someone who went through the VHLM. It'd usually be less, if both were active.

[frescoelmo 1,276]

2 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

It wouldn't be "additional" compared to someone who went through the VHLM. It'd usually be less, if both were active.

 

8 years with 150tpe

8 years with 75tpe

 

Not trying to be devil's advocate but I just don't see the benefit is in taking less TPE to stay in the minors...  Unless there was a caveat.  Of course if you just eliminate the VHLM then whatever

[Molholt 2,185]

Just now, frescoelmo said:

 

8 years with 150tpe

8 years with 75tpe

 

Not trying to be devil's advocate but I just don't see the benefit is in taking less TPE to stay in the minors...  Unless there was a caveat.  Of course if you just eliminate the VHLM then whatever

 

If you go through a season of the VHLM you don't lose a year of eligibility. So, you wouldn't be at 8 years with 75 TPE - you'd be at 8 years with 75 TPE plus all of the available VHLM TPE, which includes development, extra cash and the achievement tracker, on top of weekly TPE opportunities throughout the season. The 150 would let you bypass that, at a penalty of losing out on the extra TPE you'd earn if you were active in the VHLM.

 

Does that make sense?

[frescoelmo 1,276]

3 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

If you go through a season of the VHLM you don't lose a year of eligibility. So, you wouldn't be at 8 years with 75 TPE - you'd be at 8 years with 75 TPE plus all of the available VHLM TPE, which includes development, extra cash and the achievement tracker, on top of weekly TPE opportunities throughout the season. The 150 would let you bypass that, at a penalty of losing out on the extra TPE you'd earn if you were active in the VHLM.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Mostly, I guess it just comes down to whether or not you want to wait for the tipping point.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

If this is what you're going for, better to just scrap the VHLM altogether

[Molholt 2,185]

3 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

If this is what you're going for, better to just scrap the VHLM altogether

 

Completely disagree. This is for a small group of veteran members that want to bypass it (its also just ideas for discussion). It's not for people who like the VHLM or for the VHLM's biggest job - new members.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

29 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

Completely disagree. This is for a small group of veteran members that want to bypass it (its also just ideas for discussion). It's not for people who like the VHLM or for the VHLM's biggest job - new members.

So, only me? Lol

 

but seriously, if that's what we're going for I think we should just scrap it. Our biggest job as you said is new members, right? Well, I think someone said I was the last first gen to actually stay active. So apparently VHLM isn't good at that. I came close with 457 and 754 but they seem to be gone now. And why wouldn't new members take this option? I like to think that I was a decently active new member, and I created pretty much at the deadline, and I only had 133 TPE on draft day. Grabbing 150 TPE would be an improvement in and of itself, and if new guys were allowed to have the 30 TPE they normally get, it would be against their best interests if they turned that down. Not to mention welfare guys, why would they turn this down? I've got 2 of them on my team right now, Kylrad's player at 129, and Tylar's player at 144. Skipping would be the best option for them in this case for sure. Plus just look at how the VHLM will be affected. Let's assume that every welfare guy goes straight to the VHL, then assume every 2nd player is going straight to the VHL since it only would make sense not to do for Shankley and DeGrath. That alone leaves the VHLM with 17 members above 60 TPE, and even less of whom are active. That's low even if we contracted the VHLM to 4 teams.

 

Now assume that 1 player for every draft class goes straight to the VHL(likely more based on how many people don't enjoy the VHLM), 1 new recruit every year goes straight to the VHL(likely more because going straight to the pros would probably appeal to a lot of guys, plus I would advise them to, more TPE than they would likely get from staying in the VHLM, and most other players that I think were first gens like Tsbagsuph and J.J. Dynamite did well but stalled out just short of 100 TPE, so at worst it helps the league have better drafts and better role players than the unusable 30 TPE guys we have now, and at best helps new guys by giving them more TPE to start and they might have a better chance of staying active). This draft already only had 19 non-second players, and only 8 with more than 30 TPE, and only 6 that were active. Now take 2 of those guys away, and I just don't see why we should keep the VHLM in that case

[Molholt 2,185]

3 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

So, only me? Lol

 

but seriously, if that's what we're going for I think we should just scrap it. Our biggest job as you said is new members, right? Well, I think someone said I was the last first gen to actually stay active. So apparently VHLM isn't good at that. I came close with 457 and 754 but they seem to be gone now. And why wouldn't new members take this option? I like to think that I was a decently active new member, and I created pretty much at the deadline, and I only had 133 TPE on draft day. Grabbing 150 TPE would be an improvement in and of itself, and if new guys were allowed to have the 30 TPE they normally get, it would be against their best interests if they turned that down. Not to mention welfare guys, why would they turn this down? I've got 2 of them on my team right now, Kylrad's player at 129, and Tylar's player at 144. Skipping would be the best option for them in this case for sure. Plus just look at how the VHLM will be affected. Let's assume that every welfare guy goes straight to the VHL, then assume every 2nd player is going straight to the VHL since it only would make sense not to do for Shankley and DeGrath. That alone leaves the VHLM with 17 members above 60 TPE, and even less of whom are active. That's low even if we contracted the VHLM to 4 teams.

 

Now assume that 1 player for every draft class goes straight to the VHL(likely more based on how many people don't enjoy the VHLM), 1 new recruit every year goes straight to the VHL(likely more because going straight to the pros would probably appeal to a lot of guys, plus I would advise them to, more TPE than they would likely get from staying in the VHLM, and most other players that I think were first gens like Tsbagsuph and J.J. Dynamite did well but stalled out just short of 100 TPE, so at worst it helps the league have better drafts and better role players than the unusable 30 TPE guys we have now, and at best helps new guys by giving them more TPE to start and they might have a better chance of staying active). This draft already only had 19 non-second players, and only 8 with more than 30 TPE, and only 6 that were active. Now take 2 of those guys away, and I just don't see why we should keep the VHLM in that case

 

I don't think this would even be an option for a new member, this is sort of an adjustment to carryover, for veteran members. Also, the guys like Shankly and Snatch who are highly active and want the most TPE wouldn't bypass it, because they'd earn much more by staying down. Plus, it would only be available to people who passed a certain TPE threshold with their previous player, so it would be someone active, not the welfare guys who haven't been around much. The TPE numbers I mentioned would scale based on previous player's TPE, the number I mentioned were just the caps.

 

Also, all numbers are adjustable in my proposals, just to put a number on it at the time. 

[FacePuncher 1,343]

7 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I don't think this would even be an option for a new member, this is sort of an adjustment to carryover, for veteran members. Also, the guys like Shankly and Snatch who are highly active and want the most TPE wouldn't bypass it, because they'd earn much more by staying down. Plus, it would only be available to people who passed a certain TPE threshold with their previous player, so it would be someone active, not the welfare guys who haven't been around much. The TPE numbers I mentioned would scale based on previous player's TPE, the number I mentioned were just the caps.

 

Also, all numbers are adjustable in my proposals, just to put a number on it at the time. 

If the new members couldn't I can understand it slightly, but still. And yeah a handful of 2nd players might be used better off going through the VHLM, but most would not. And how would the 150/100 TPE be adjustable? I would like to see what you have in mind I'm just confused about it atm

[Molholt 2,185]

13 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

If the new members couldn't I can understand it slightly, but still. And yeah a handful of 2nd players might be used better off going through the VHLM, but most would not. And how would the 150/100 TPE be adjustable? I would like to see what you have in mind I'm just confused about it atm

 

It would work like carryover - so it would be based on a percentage of your previous players tpe. 

[Jericho 917]

The issue there is that new guys need older members in their teams to guide them. During my time as a VHLM GM I found that newbies had questions basically night and day, which is totally understandable, but the GM alone can't be there all the time to answer. People have jobs, need to sleep, do other shit. I always encouraged people to ask me questions when I was around, but if I wasn't I told them to ask another guy on the team. It was semi-successful as a model. That's how I got the Gow brothers, which I will always call my biggest success as a VHLM GM. Having vets in the M is really useful and it isn't THAT big of a sacrifice for us to do once per player. Especially the guys with Project 2, since they'll have a guy in the pros anyway.

[Molholt 2,185]

8 minutes ago, Jericho said:

The issue there is that new guys need older members in their teams to guide them. During my time as a VHLM GM I found that newbies had questions basically night and day, which is totally understandable, but the GM alone can't be there all the time to answer. People have jobs, need to sleep, do other shit. I always encouraged people to ask me questions when I was around, but if I wasn't I told them to ask another guy on the team. It was semi-successful as a model. That's how I got the Gow brothers, which I will always call my biggest success as a VHLM GM. Having vets in the M is really useful and it isn't THAT big of a sacrifice for us to do once per player. Especially the guys with Project 2, since they'll have a guy in the pros anyway.

 

I agree that the two player system helps this, although I was still really bored with my recent draftee. Although I can say first-hand that having me in the locker room, when I don't want to be there, does no good. I doubt everyone on Saskatoon even knew I was on the team last season  

[FacePuncher 1,343]

7 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I agree that the two player system helps this, although I was still really bored with my recent draftee. Although I can say first-hand that having me in the locker room, when I don't want to be there, does no good. I doubt everyone on Saskatoon even knew I was on the team last season  

I did! But you never posted until like the very end

 

what don't you like about the VHLM? I just don't get it. Sasky won the cup, we had a full roster of players(which I thought was cool and unique but maybe not I've only been here like 5 seasons), I had my most active LR to date, your player did pretty well and was a punishing checker. What was missing?

[Da Trifecta 1,899]

1 minute ago, ADwyer87 said:

I did! But you never posted until like the very end

 

what don't you like about the VHLM? I just don't get it. Sasky won the cup, we had a full roster of players(which I thought was cool and unique but maybe not I've only been here like 5 seasons), I had my most active LR to date, your player did pretty well and was a punishing checker. What was missing?

 

After being in the VHLM more than once, it just isn't worth being there again and again. Maybe it's just his personal preference that he don't want to be there. Some people just rather get their careers going with their players instead of waiting.

[Molholt 2,185]

1 minute ago, ADwyer87 said:

I did! But you never posted until like the very end

 

what don't you like about the VHLM? I just don't get it. Sasky won the cup, we had a full roster of players(which I thought was cool and unique but maybe not I've only been here like 5 seasons), I had my most active LR to date, your player did pretty well and was a punishing checker. What was missing?

 

I've just never liked developmental/minor leagues. I don't like the NCAA in the SBA either. I just want to be in the pros, where it is "real." Sure, I now have a Cup from the VHLM, but I only really care about the Continental Cup. I only care about my career VHL stats, etc. Even in the SBA, at least you can test and see how your player is going to perform at the next level because there is more build variety. Here, everyone on the site knows what our limited attributes do and so I'm not even interested in testing my build or anything like that. The only thing I care about in the VHLM is the extra TPE from the achievement tracker and development, and I didn't even do development this time around. 

 

There are people who do great things for the VHLM. I just think its mostly for new members. I had a blast in the VHLM with my first player, Jarkko Olsen. But it was my first player, I was learning how the league worked, how attributes worked, etc. Now all of that mystique and wonder is gone, so it just feels like I'm wasting my time. 

[Jericho 917]

26 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I agree that the two player system helps this, although I was still really bored with my recent draftee. Although I can say first-hand that having me in the locker room, when I don't want to be there, does no good. I doubt everyone on Saskatoon even knew I was on the team last season  

 

You are right about that, but I don't think everyone has as much disdain for the VHLM as you do. Most people probably prefer the VHL (myself included) but having a season there every 9 isn't so bad. The first partial season flies by since you'll usually still have your retired player in the pros anyway.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

1 minute ago, Jericho said:

 

You are right about that, but I don't think everyone has as much disdain for the VHLM as you do. Most people probably prefer the VHL (myself included) but having a season there every 9 isn't so bad. The first partial season flies by since you'll usually still have your retired player in the pros anyway.

I think that is a dangerous assumption lol

[Molholt 2,185]

1 minute ago, Jericho said:

 

You are right about that, but I don't think everyone has as much disdain for the VHLM as you do. Most people probably prefer the VHL (myself included) but having a season there every 9 isn't so bad. The first partial season flies by since you'll usually still have your retired player in the pros anyway.

 

That half season doesn't bother me, which is why I'd like to enter the VHL immediately following it  

[Molholt 2,185]

Just now, ADwyer87 said:

I think that is a dangerous assumption lol

 

I really don't think people hate it league-wide or anything. I dislike it, but it's also not the end of the world, I'm just playing the side of the person who doesn't like it for these suggestions. I've been through it multiple times and lived, but I've also went inactive in it twice. 

[FacePuncher 1,343]

Just now, Molholt said:

 

I really don't think people hate it league-wide or anything. I dislike it, but it's also not the end of the world, I'm just playing the side of the person who doesn't like it for these suggestions. I've been through it multiple times and lived, but I've also went inactive in it twice. 

Seems like most people really don't like it. Maybe I'm just seeing a few things from a few guys and thinking it's a more widespread feeling, but it feels like VHLM gets very little love. I mean if it wasn't for me and @hedgehog337 there would be almost no VHLM coverage, besides the suggestions to change it