Garsh asked a question about players being stuck between 200-400 TPE and if there was analysis of this comparing it with the VHLE, but it's 150+ words, so it's going in a vhl.com, I'm no idiot. But actually I am cause it's over 500, so I am an idiot.

[MubbleFubbles 1,289]

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People talk about the VHLE specifically being a problem but I haven't seen anyone do any analysis on if we have a higher percentage of players dropping off since the E compared to before the E.  People have always have to go from 200-400 TPE.  Have we always had a falloff at that point?  Would kind of make sense if we had, people try out this new thing might get to this point and decide they don't like it.  I don't know one way or another but would be interesting to see.

 

I'd like to thank @Garshfor this post that led to the topic of my vhl.com as it did get me curious as to the actual numbers at play.

 

Taking players from the Season 63-Season 78 as a sample size, 694 players achieved 200 TPE or more and, of those 694, 253 finished between 200 and 400 TPE, which is 36.5% of players who surpassed 200 TPE not making it past 400 TPE. 

 

Now you can compare that 36.5% with the numbers for players from the S79, S80 and S81 classes:

 

S79: 31.3% (One active still able to get over 400 TPE, which would make 28.1% if they surpassed 400 TPE)

S80: 30.6%

S81: 36.4% (Four actives still able to get over 400 TPE, which would make 29.1% if they surpassed 400 TPE)

 

So all three of the first drafts that were most likely to be affected by the implementation of the VHLE have all seen similar, if not better, success with getting players through that 200-400 TPE than pre-VHLE.

 

Season 82 and Season 83 still sit above the 36.4% mark with 44.7% and 56% respectively, but both also have several actives still in the 200-400 mark (S82 has 11, S83 has 15) and if all those surpassed 400 TPE, the amount of players between 200-400 TPE from those classes would reduce to 28.3% for Season 82 and 26% for Season 83, so even half to two-thirds of those players making it past 400 TPE would see them getting around the league average. 

 

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Also of note, Season 81 (our first VHL Draft class with a proper recruitment drive post-VHLE implementation) actually was arguably one of our best recent draft classes at getting first gens past 400 TPE. To date, 20 (57.1%) of the 35 First-Gens that surpassed 200 TPE from that class have gone on to surpass 400 TPE, and this is not accounting for the four active first-gen players from that class who can still surpass 400 TPE. Compare that 57.1% with draft classes that had a similar number of first-gens achieving over 200 TPE.

 

Season 66: 37 First Gens surpassed 200 TPE, 17 surpassed 400 TPE (46%)

Season 67: 34 First Gens surpassed 200 TPE, 18 surpassed 400 TPE (52.9%)

Season 68: 33 First Gens surpassed 200 TPE, 15 surpassed 400 TPE (45.5%)

Season 76: 36 First Gens surpassed 200 TPE, 17 surpassed 400 TPE (47.2%)

 

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As an aside, I still do stand by my point that VHLE Drafts should take place in the off-season following the player surpassing 200 TPE rather than just taking place in the same off-season as the VHL Draft. Of the 46 IA VHLE players and Free Agents, 39.1% (18 total) had stopped updating before they'd even played a single VHLE game, and the vast majority of these had spent at least one extra season after their VHLE Draft in the VHLM. Maybe moving the draft to the point where it is more relevant to their careers, that could potentially keep members more interested in the lead-up to their promotion to the VHLE and spread out the natural excitement and intrigue of drafts rather than sandwiching it in at a point where it generates less hype and sometimes more confusion (several players have been under the impression they've been moved to the E once they've been VHLE drafted and have to be corrected). 

 

[Gustav 6,406]

I was thinking about doing something similar, so thanks for this.

 

I've said since before the VHLE existed that perhaps the shift in environment post-draft is enough to make some people drop off. VHLM team locker rooms are always going to be more active (in general) due to all the question-asking going on and the super high turnover rate as new members enter the league. When someone moves into a community of people that's fairly well established there, some of which have been in that server as a member of that team for up to a year or so, and everyone knows what they're doing and everyone knows everyone else...yeah, that's going to lead to some people losing interest. And, unfortunately, there have always been VHL teams that just don't really care to connect with and retain their new members. 

 

I've never played in the VHLE and I've heard many negatives about it from the viewpoint of more established members who have gone through it. People have told me both in public and in private that their locker room is dead, that they're surrounded by inactive players, and that they just can't wait to get out. I've never said myself that the VHLE is directly leading to inactivity because I know there's always been a drop-off...but I also wonder how much of that inactivity can be prevented as it seems that the E has mostly the same issues with keeping new members around as does the VHL. I hope there are genuinely good experiences to be had there, and I hope the GMs can do what they can to make it an overall positive experience (though I'll still hold certain...opinions of it myself).

 

 

17 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

As an aside, I still do stand by my point that VHLE Drafts should take place in the off-season following the player surpassing 200 TPE rather than just taking place in the same off-season as the VHL Draft.

 

I also fully support this. Being drafted three times at once is stupid and overwhelming even for someone who knows what they're doing.

[Beketov 9,024]

47 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

I still do stand by my point that VHLE Drafts should take place in the off-season following the player surpassing 200 TPE rather than just taking place in the same off-season as the VHL Draft.

Draft date being set at creation is still an integral part of the VHL though. I get other leagues handle it this way and while it has some advantages I stand by the fact that it’s far too easy to cheese with people generally being asked if not forced to do so, which can result in a lack of activity.

 

What I mean is that if we say “your draft date is the off season after cutoff X” then what you’ll get is people earning up to X-1 so that they can have a full “uncapping” season. This congests the VHLM with top end players who don’t need to learn and are just taking ice time from new players while also making it so that people may have weeks at a time where they are told to earn nothing in order to be “optimal.” I know I went inactive in the EFL because of this because I was literally told for 3/4 of a season to earn nothing or else I would go over 199 and lose my optimal “uncapping season.”

 

Personally I find that drawback outweighs the benefit.

[MubbleFubbles 1,289]

13 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Draft date being set at creation is still an integral part of the VHL though. I get other leagues handle it this way and while it has some advantages I stand by the fact that it’s far too easy to cheese with people generally being asked if not forced to do so, which can result in a lack of activity.

 

What I mean is that if we say “your draft date is the off season after cutoff X” then what you’ll get is people earning up to X-1 so that they can have a full “uncapping” season. This congests the VHLM with top end players who don’t need to learn and are just taking ice time from new players while also making it so that people may have weeks at a time where they are told to earn nothing in order to be “optimal.” I know I went inactive in the EFL because of this because I was literally told for 3/4 of a season to earn nothing or else I would go over 199 and lose my optimal “uncapping season.”

 

Personally I find that drawback outweighs the benefit.

TBH, I don't think that's a great comparison because those leagues have other systems built in that are specifically geared towards not penalising you for waiting around in a lower league, whereas the VHL doesn't really have that, if you decide not to earn TPE and stay down in the M for example, that only means you have to earn more TPE to guarantee you get through the VHLE and, if you don't do that, you miss out on a season of VHL eligibility, so I don't see why people would go "hold back for a bit with your earning to stick around in the M". The only difference in moving the VHLE Draft (specifically VHLE, VHL would stay where it is at creation) would be instead of getting called-up your VHLE team after surpassing 200 TPE, you'd be getting drafted to a new one. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by MubbleFubbles

[Victor 10,939]

[Beketov 9,024]

28 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

TBH, I don't think that's a great comparison because those leagues have other systems built in that are specifically geared towards not penalising you for waiting around in a lower league, whereas the VHL doesn't really have that, if you decide not to earn TPE and stay down in the M for example, that only means you have to earn more TPE to guarantee you get through the VHLE and, if you don't do that, you miss out on a season of VHL eligibility, so I don't see why people would go "hold back for a bit with your earning to stick around in the M". The only difference in moving the VHLE Draft (specifically VHLE, VHL would stay where it is at creation) would be instead of getting called-up your team after surpassing 200 TPE, you'd be getting drafted to a new one. 

I misunderstood. So VHLM and VHL draft dates would still be set at creation but VHLE would move depending on TPE?

 

It makes sense on the surface but it might be confusing if someone gets drafted to the VHL before the VHLE. Mind you depending on dates I guess that could happen now anyway and it would probably be rare.

[MubbleFubbles 1,289]

7 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I misunderstood. So VHLM and VHL draft dates would still be set at creation but VHLE would move depending on TPE?

 

Yeah, so theoretically you could use the same cut-off date that VHLM uses to determine who can/can't play in the VHLM to be the cut-off point by which players who have exceeded 200 TPE for the first time at that point enter the upcoming VHLE Draft. 

 

 

[Shindigs 1,771]

The VHLE draft in its current implementation is a source of constant confusion for 1st gens and recreates alike (since most of them never had to deal with it in previous careers). So having it only actually happen when needed for a player does make a lot of sense to me as well.