VHLM Waiver Discussion

[Guest]

Out of respect for the waiver claim. Which can be weeded through to delete posts that aren't related to the actual claim, I started this.

 

Do we need to take a look at the way it is done by VHLM GM's again? Keep in mind the goal and plan for the VHLM was to make new members interested and active by getting them affiliated with the league right away. Now I realize a bunch of the guys on the waiver board haven't done anything since creating. However, I ask of anyone that is or has been a VHLM GM: Have you ever PM'd any of them to find out what their reason is for not doing anything, or if they are confused?

 

I hear "Well they haven't made any posts since creating their player". Well that's true, but maybe they just need help and if you ask them or claim them they may have an easier time getting accustomed to our everyday actions in a LR.

 

Also, I understand teams don't want to lose priority by picking up a guy who may not do anything. However I have two comments on that.

 

#1 - Do we still have the free priority rule after 2-3 days?

 

#2 - Is the success of the guys on your team more important then the growth of the entire VHL/VHLM leagues?

 

If the answer is YES to #2, then maybe we need to re-think what our goal of the VHLM's is. Cause if that's the case our goal isn't to grow, but it's to just simply succeed with re-creates?

 

I'm not pointing fingers or anything. I just get pissed when GM's leave guys lying around in the waiver priority if there team isn't even competing this year.

 

Examples:

 

Turku can't possibly be doing anything this season. Why haven't they claimed anyone?

 

Brampton has 4 people on their roster. The highest having 25 TPE. Why haven't they claimed anyone?

 

To be honest, I shouldn't care. I don't have any affiliation to the VHLM and don't really need to be interested. But I am and care about the growth. So I think we should look at this.

 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Free claim is after 24 hours, although I'm not sure if it's in the rules anywhere on this site.

[Guest]

Free claim is after 24 hours, although I'm not sure if it's in the rules anywhere on this site.

Oh okay. Maybe we need to look at that being in bold somewhere. I for one would claim guys like Otter just to speak to them and see what their thoughts are at this time

[Corco 1,265]

Free claim is indeed after 24hours with no claim. Thus, all of the undrafted players are first come, first serve.

[Guest]

Free claim is indeed after 24hours with no claim. Thus, all of the undrafted players are first come, first serve.

So that brings the question up: Why haven't the lesser talented teams claimed them?

[Seth 92]

So that brings the question up: Why haven't the lesser talented teams claimed them?

It's either an obvious ploy to tank or a simple lack of preforming one's due diligence. 

[Victor 11,021]

I think the best solution would be to assign players to teams after 3-4 days. So player is added to waivers, after 24 hours becomes a free waiver, after 72 hours is assigned without affecting priority to a team, becoming that team GM's responsibility.

Incentive for VHLM GMs would help too. 1 TPE for every player who reaches 100 TPE, who started on that team?

[Squinty 116]

I think the best solution would be to assign players to teams after 3-4 days. So player is added to waivers, after 24 hours becomes a free waiver, after 72 hours is assigned without affecting priority to a team, becoming that team GM's responsibility.

Incentive for VHLM GMs would help too. 1 TPE for every player who reaches 100 TPE, who started on that team?

For assigning players, it'd probably make the most sense if you started from the bottom...

...now we here.

Incentive should be 1TPE if the player reaches 50 tbqhswagswag

[Seth 92]

I think the best solution would be to assign players to teams after 3-4 days. So player is added to waivers, after 24 hours becomes a free waiver, after 72 hours is assigned without affecting priority to a team, becoming that team GM's responsibility.

Incentive for VHLM GMs would help too. 1 TPE for every player who reaches 100 TPE, who started on that team?

The only issue with the your first suggestion is that teams that are tanking, will simply not place the acquired players on their lines. It's one thing to force the player on the roster, but a completely different scenario when enforcing lines.

 

In regards to your second suggestion, should doing your job as a VHLM GM be rewarded? I always assumed keeping members active was an essential aspect of the job description. 

[Victor 11,021]

The only issue with the your first suggestion is that teams that are tanking, will simply not place the acquired players on their lines. It's one thing to force the player on the roster, but a completely different scenario when enforcing lines.

If anyone did that, their days as VHLM GM would be numbered. Not that there is any reason to do it, a 0 TPE player won't stop a team from losing. That is the real problem for me, since an inactive LR can disinterest a new member. Hence the GM has to take the initiative.

Hence...

 

In regards to your second suggestion, should doing your job as a VHLM GM be rewarded? I always assumed keeping members active was an essential aspect of the job description.

The VHLM GMs are all fine individuals who enjoy the league and want to see it prosper. But not everyone is going to go out of their way to do absolutely everything. A little incentive won't hinder matters. VHLM GMs don't get much recognition or attention, their accomplishments are overlooked alongside the whole league. We can talk about how it's their job, but we have to be realistic.

[Seth 92]

If anyone did that, their days as VHLM GM would be numbered. Not that there is any reason to do it, a 0 TPE player won't stop a team from losing. That is the real problem for me, since an inactive LR can disinterest a new member. Hence the GM has to take the initiative.

Hence...

 

The VHLM GMs are all fine individuals who enjoy the league and want to see it prosper. But not everyone is going to go out of their way to do absolutely everything. A little incentive won't hinder matters. VHLM GMs don't get much recognition or attention, their accomplishments are overlooked alongside the whole league. We can talk about how it's their job, but we have to be realistic.

I presuppose everything you affirmed is both logical and accurate. The basic formula for a GM in general, is active LR = active members which eventually = success.

[Guest]

If anyone did that, their days as VHLM GM would be numbered. Not that there is any reason to do it, a 0 TPE player won't stop a team from losing. That is the real problem for me, since an inactive LR can disinterest a new member. Hence the GM has to take the initiative.

Hence...

 

The VHLM GMs are all fine individuals who enjoy the league and want to see it prosper. But not everyone is going to go out of their way to do absolutely everything. A little incentive won't hinder matters. VHLM GMs don't get much recognition or attention, their accomplishments are overlooked alongside the whole league. We can talk about how it's their job, but we have to be realistic.

But realistically, you sign up to be a GM in the VHLM to take ownership over a team, not groom prospects. So yeah i think an incentive. Because at this stage Turku and Brampton have really kind of pissed me off (mainly Toast and fever) for not doing anything.

[Seth 92]

But realistically, you sign up to be a GM in the VHLM to take ownership over a team, not groom prospects. So yeah i think an incentive. Because at this stage Turku and Brampton have really kind of pissed me off (mainly Toast and fever) for not doing anything.

Oh snap, names have been dropped!

 

[Guest]

Oh snap, names have been dropped!

 

I don't mean to throw them under the bus. I just simply want to know why two teams with barely anyone on them would wait? Both guys are active (we know that) and with their current rosters you have to figure playoffs aren't in their sights. However, if they are waiting for the right players to re-create then really we potentially lose members as well.

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

Dissolve 4 VHLM teams, problem solved

 

But jokes aside, of course we want VHLM GMs to groom prospects but I think we have to accept that this isn't the priority for every one of them. At the end of the day you want to have success with your team and we can't blame them for that. Luckily most of the time those two things go hand in hand, if you manage to keep the guys on your team active you'll have a higher chance to be successful. But sometimes this doesn't apply and some GM (don't wanna drop any names since I really don't know) just seem flat out disinterested. But the main problem for me is that every season at least, if not more than half the league seems to be in tanking mode. That's hardly an interesting enviroment for new members if there are maybe two teams who have a good chance to compete, but they mainly rely on Recreates, 2-3 teams who maybe have one or two other actives besides you at best, and five teams with nobody on them. The VHLM really looks like an abomination at the moment, at least to an outsider.

Edited January 5, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus

[d3vilsfire 132]

Dissolve 4 VHLM teams, problem solved

 

dissolving teams is never fun.. and is dangerous

 

Experience from being commissioner of other hockey leagues like in Metroho.com and stuff

Edited January 5, 2014 by d3vilsfire

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

dissolving teams is never fun.. and is dangerous

 

Experience from being commissioner of other hockey leagues like in Metroho.com and stuff

The VHLM has way too many teams for the numbers of players it has imho. But we've already had this discussion in the Waiver thread and I've been told that it would be pretty much impossible to shrink down the VHLM anyway.

 

Edited my previous post btw with some more serious thoughts from my side.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

What about certain scenarios like mine? I was handed a team with no picks for this draft that just passed. I did what I could and dealt an inactive for a pick. I am clearly trying to tank and I will state it here because the only person who is semi-active on my roster is Elliot and at times he is a huge question mark.

 

Teams that are stuck in this scenario (aka having the team screwed over on them before they come in) should have higher priority to claiming players. I mean I have been trying to move Elliot's player as stated to many different people because I want to restock this team and actually get some active players. I have posted in my locker room and tried to get some input but it's rather difficult when, as stated above, I only have one active player on my team.

 

Now I am not saying to salvage those teams either but either that should be taken into a little bit more consideration or the fact that a recruitment drive should be done and actually have prizes given out. However the Commissioners see it fit to reward off the recruitment drive is their own worry. But I mean everyone else should take it upon themselves whether getting a reward or not to try and help make this community grow further than what it has already grown. I have been here for almost a year in real life time and I can honestly say I love this place more than any other sim league I have been a part of. Why? Simply because this place has some of the best members on here and this place has thrived for so long.

 

Back to the task at hand. I am not a firm believer in the just handing teams players because they haven't gotten anyone on their team. I tried to make a push during free agency and simply got outbid for players. Also this waiver system is really flawed. I mean like stated above, it would be good for a team like mine in which I had this team gutted by another person (we all know who did it), it would be beneficial to have higher priority than some of the other teams. I put in a claim for Kimmo Salo to come to Minot and be my goalie but it appears he is headed to Oslo. This isn't a personal shot towards Doom because I love the guy (like a brother), but the fact that I have tried numerous times to bring in players and have failed. I know it gets easier as it goes but there is only so much that one person can do.

[Victor 11,021]

That's why I think losing seasons should be spent on grooming new members. They have 0 TPE which isn't going to stop your from losing. Yeah, losing teams' LRs are shit but so are some of the contenders (which is sad but true). Losing teams GMs' best course of action should be to have a PM/IM relationship with new members, make them active and improve the upcoming VHLM and VHL drafts. Hence being forced to acquire overlooked new members should at least theoretically force the VHLM to accept responsibility for them.

Additionally, perhaps knowledge that a player will only be on free waivers for 48 hours will make GMs more enthusiastic about helping new members (not saying others aren't, but some are particularly awesome at it) claim them faster.

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

As a first generation player myself, maybe I can give some insight on my experience in the VHLM. Because even though it was a pleasant experience in general, as I had two great GMs, there were also some thing that surprised me and that I think could be improved.

 

First of all I don't think the people here knew anything about me when I first joined, this was my first player and I was pretty quiet at the beginning of my career, even though I started doing articles right away. But then when the VHLM-Draft came away, I have to say that I was pretty surprised that not a single GM contacted me prior to the Draft. I don't expect every GM to talk to every player beforehand and of course there are recreates where this isn't necessary because you know what you'll get. But I was a guy people knew nothing about so I thought that they'd at least want to get to know me a little better before they consider drafting me. But I didn't get a single PM from a GM and I at least partially attribute that to laziness. I mean if I was a GM I would try to get in touch with as many people as possible prior to the draft and this really isn't much work, I mean you just need a standard PM that you then copy and paste to every eligible player and it takes maybe 10 to 15 minutes, so really nort much work...

 

Then when the VHLM-draft came around I dropped all the way to #21 (it was a strong class though), I didn't mind much at the time but looking back at it now, it really feels like many GMs just didn't care about a new guy that they didn't know and that they may have had to do a little scouting work on. Looking at the people that were drafted before me, I think some of them were never active, they just had a few more TPE to start then I did. So I can't help but think that a considerable amount of GMs didn't even bother to check my player and instead just went by the starting post in the draft thread that listed everyones TPE. Again, I'm not pissed because of that or anything and many aspects of it didn't occur to me until recently anyway, but when I saw what happened with Azhishchenkov it kind of reminded me of my own situation back then. I wasn't a Waiver pickup but just like Azhi I was overlooked by pretty much everyone, even though we had already submitted PTs and had written our Rookie Profile and Biography, and we both ended up on a team with a good active GM, but pretty much no other active players because they just came of a cup rund and had sold all their picks for this season. It still turned out well for me because I had a great GM who helped me out whenever I had questions and did his best to keep me active, and I think flyersfan will do the same for Azhi, but I think when first generation players like us are completely ignored by a large portion of the VHLM, be it out of laziness or because they just want high-TPE Recreates, it is a problem.

Edited January 5, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus

[Victor 11,021]

I know a lot of SHL guys in the past were surprised by the lack of contact even at the VHL draft (it's just not as important here because TPE sets players apart to make the draft order fairly straightforward) but I do agree it's probably a more important part of the VHLM draft where there are so many more unknowns.

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

I know a lot of SHL guys in the past were surprised by the lack of contact even at the VHL draft (it's just not as important here because TPE sets players apart to make the draft order fairly straightforward) but I do agree it's probably a more important part of the VHLM draft where there are so many more unknowns.

The not being contacted thing is only one sympton of a bigger problem though - which is that many VHLM GMs just don't seem to care. And maybe you can't even blame them for it if you consider that each year about seven or eight of them have no chance at a championship anyway (which brings me back to my "the league is too bloated" argument).

Edited January 5, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus

[Seth 92]

The VHLM as a whole should be far more concerned about member development, as opposed to competitiveness. I'm not quite sure if that seems to be the case among the majority of GM's, but the aforementioned mindset, should undeniably be the direction the GM's elect to follow.

 

Everyone wants to win, I completely understand that sentiment. However, I can easily vision a scenario at which an inactive member returns to find his player in the VHLM, only still to be on waivers, and simply have no interest.. Perhaps if he had a team and a GM to convince himself to return, that member would remain active 

[Guest]

That's why I think losing seasons should be spent on grooming new members. They have 0 TPE which isn't going to stop your from losing. Yeah, losing teams' LRs are shit but so are some of the contenders (which is sad but true). Losing teams GMs' best course of action should be to have a PM/IM relationship with new members, make them active and improve the upcoming VHLM and VHL drafts. Hence being forced to acquire overlooked new members should at least theoretically force the VHLM to accept responsibility for them.

Additionally, perhaps knowledge that a player will only be on free waivers for 48 hours will make GMs more enthusiastic about helping new members (not saying others aren't, but some are particularly awesome at it) claim them faster.

This to an absolute tee.

In the case of Da, I understand the situation you are in but what would be wrong with putting a claim in for a guy with 0-15 TPE? He won't be the MVP of the season and regardless you will have draft picks as well.

Question, what's the current draft pick rules in the VHLM? Is it a Lottery like the VHL? If not maybe we should make it so you aren't guaranteed good picks. So that every year they try to compete.

Romanes brings up a good point though. Maybe the VHLM Commish should announce the VHLM Dispersal draft eligible players more than 2 days prior to the draft, so that VHLM GM's can contact. Cause thats one of the problems that I've seen with Corco posting them the day of.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

This to an absolute tee.

In the case of Da, I understand the situation you are in but what would be wrong with putting a claim in for a guy with 0-15 TPE? He won't be the MVP of the season and regardless you will have draft picks as well.

Question, what's the current draft pick rules in the VHLM? Is it a Lottery like the VHL? If not maybe we should make it so you aren't guaranteed good picks. So that every year they try to compete.

Romanes brings up a good point though. Maybe the VHLM Commish should announce the VHLM Dispersal draft eligible players more than 2 days prior to the draft, so that VHLM GM's can contact. Cause thats one of the problems that I've seen with Corco posting them the day of.

 

Currently, there is no lottery for the VHLM.

 

I think that goes hand in hand with your first point. If you own your own picks and are trying to tank this season, the worst teams in the VHLM are so bad that that guy who perhaps isn't active, tops out at 50 TPE, or turns out to be a really active member who gets to around 100 TPE actually does really hurt your chance at getting one of the top 2 picks. 

 

I forget who was talking about this before (I think it was Romanes), but expansion has really hurt the VHLM. There just aren't enough active players each season to have more than 1 or 2 teams that can seriously compete for the Founder's Cup. Now, you're probably left with 2 teams or so that are building up for next season but can't realistically compete for the top teams, 2 teams that are just getting over making a run the previous season and have jack-squat left for picks, and 4 teams that are somewhere in the middle. Essentially 60% of the league will not be able to compete with everyone else. Hell, if you're in the worse of the 2 conferences and somehow sneak into the playoffs as the third seed, not only will you be demolished by whoever you play, but you're now in a worse off spot for future seasons because your first round pick will be too low to get one of the top studs in the draft.

 

As to your last point, I would think that most GMs track the progress of the draftees during the season, but I may be too optimistic here.