Seth 92 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would be in favor of a lottery involving the worst four teams or so in the VHLM. In regards to expansion, I agree it has hurt the quality of teams in the league. However, once an expansion is made, diminishing teams once again becomes tricky. There needs to be a system formulated that spreads players among teams, regardless if they are active or not. It truly becomes an unfortunate situation when the LR of some teams are horrific, as there are little to no actives. I have always claimed that a GM dictates his LR's activity, but that is only the case when there are actuall actives to work with. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think it would be nice to have some form of incentive program for VHLM GMs in that they get rewarded TPE for the number of first gen players who get over x number of TPE before the draft. Just my two cents, I've always stated VHLM GMs should get paid. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Looking at the rosters though, which may be wrong because of Jardy'd drunkeness, I see a lot of teams with no goalies and a lot of other teams with two goalies. That's idiotic to say the least. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,898 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 This to an absolute tee. In the case of Da, I understand the situation you are in but what would be wrong with putting a claim in for a guy with 0-15 TPE? He won't be the MVP of the season and regardless you will have draft picks as well. Question, what's the current draft pick rules in the VHLM? Is it a Lottery like the VHL? If not maybe we should make it so you aren't guaranteed good picks. So that every year they try to compete. Romanes brings up a good point though. Maybe the VHLM Commish should announce the VHLM Dispersal draft eligible players more than 2 days prior to the draft, so that VHLM GM's can contact. Cause thats one of the problems that I've seen with Corco posting them the day of. It's not the fact of him being MVP. I would appreciate having a human goalie. I mean if I can have a few actives, it's better than having none at all. I can try to help pass on some knowledge at least of some positions and help with media spots at least. I mean keep people motivated and get them on the right track like I should be doing. I know I am not here to baby sit anyone but if I could help someone else out, it would be a great help to the league. I was in the shoes of some of these guys not that long ago and being relatively close to the beginning of my career here, at least I can relate to them. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Currently, there is no lottery for the VHLM. I think that goes hand in hand with your first point. If you own your own picks and are trying to tank this season, the worst teams in the VHLM are so bad that that guy who perhaps isn't active, tops out at 50 TPE, or turns out to be a really active member who gets to around 100 TPE actually does really hurt your chance at getting one of the top 2 picks. I forget who was talking about this before (I think it was Romanes), but expansion has really hurt the VHLM. There just aren't enough active players each season to have more than 1 or 2 teams that can seriously compete for the Founder's Cup. Now, you're probably left with 2 teams or so that are building up for next season but can't realistically compete for the top teams, 2 teams that are just getting over making a run the previous season and have jack-squat left for picks, and 4 teams that are somewhere in the middle. Essentially 60% of the league will not be able to compete with everyone else. Hell, if you're in the worse of the 2 conferences and somehow sneak into the playoffs as the third seed, not only will you be demolished by whoever you play, but you're now in a worse off spot for future seasons because your first round pick will be too low to get one of the top studs in the draft. As to your last point, I would think that most GMs track the progress of the draftees during the season, but I may be too optimistic here. Well currently at 0 TPE these guys are doing more harm on waivers then on his team. I realize it wouldn't help his team tank, but then maybe our goal in the VHLM is flawed. Maybe our goal is win championships #1 and develop new members #2. So basically putting recruitment efforts to waste... Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's not the fact of him being MVP. I would appreciate having a human goalie. I mean if I can have a few actives, it's better than having none at all. I can try to help pass on some knowledge at least of some positions and help with media spots at least. I mean keep people motivated and get them on the right track like I should be doing. I know I am not here to baby sit anyone but if I could help someone else out, it would be a great help to the league. I was in the shoes of some of these guys not that long ago and being relatively close to the beginning of my career here, at least I can relate to them.So having a few lesser known guys isn't much a worry then? I'd say claim them and develop them and you could even trade them come trade deadline. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well currently at 0 TPE these guys are doing more harm on waivers then on his team. I realize it wouldn't help his team tank, but then maybe our goal in the VHLM is flawed. Maybe our goal is win championships #1 and develop new members #2. So basically putting recruitment efforts to waste... Which I affirmed in an earlier post must change. Member development should be prioritized over winning. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,898 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 So having a few lesser known guys isn't much a worry then? I'd say claim them and develop them and you could even trade them come trade deadline. I have been trying to claim. Kimmo was the only active out there and I apparently couldn't get him after Corco told me I had higher priority than Oslo. I ain't about to claim no one and them not do anything. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3vilsfire 132 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I have been trying to claim. Kimmo was the only active out there and I apparently couldn't get him after Corco told me I had higher priority than Oslo. I ain't about to claim no one and them not do anything. Kimmo i believe was the only active goalie.. but i was/am active Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,898 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Kimmo i believe was the only active goalie.. but i was/am active I understand this but you are playing at a position that my team doesn't need as the top priority. I have no goalie at all. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3vilsfire 132 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I understand this but you are playing at a position that my team doesn't need as the top priority. I have no goalie at all. Aye.. Thats what i thought.. Just makin sure Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,898 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Aye.. Thats what i thought.. Just makin sure I wouldn't have minded grabbing you at all to help out the team but goalie is my #1 priority. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I have been trying to claim. Kimmo was the only active out there and I apparently couldn't get him after Corco told me I had higher priority than Oslo. I ain't about to claim no one and them not do anything.Them not do anything? Why would you want them to do anything if you said you were tanking? Now you have gone back and are on two sides of this. I'd say in your current position there is a slight chance they get active on a team who has a GM contacting them instead of the waiver wire just simply sitting there. I would assume I am right in that assessment? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,898 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Them not do anything? Why would you want them to do anything if you said you were tanking? Now you have gone back and are on two sides of this. I'd say in your current position there is a slight chance they get active on a team who has a GM contacting them instead of the waiver wire just simply sitting there. I would assume I am right in that assessment? So now you know if I have or haven't been PM'ing them? How would they get on my team if I am lower priority? I can still tank and have guys perform well. Other teams out there have way better players and I just need a few actives. I never said I was going to go on a waiver claiming spree but like 2-3 guys coming in and being active would be nice. If they perform well, I can trade them somewhere else and help them win a ship or they can stay if they would like. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah there should definitely be a lottery in the VHLM-Draft, at least to randomize the order for all teams that didn't make the Playoffs. Also, if we can't get rid of say 4 VHLM-teams because the Sim wouldn't allow for that then I would like to suggest a different solution: Turn those four teams into bot-teams. They still exist but have no players on them and, most importantly, don't participate in the draft. I know this idea doesn't sound very enticing at first, because who wants teams that don't actually matter and basically serve as a wild card in the file? But hear me out, because I think the biggest problem the VHLM has had over the last few season is this: You just can't compete with the number of picks your team usually has in the draft. Let's look at a middle of the pack team for example... - With the 5th Overall, they get a good active player - With the 15th Overall, they get a player who they might be able to get active again, but who currently isn't - With the 25th Overall and ever pick after it, they get trash So that's one, maybe two active players a team would normally be able to get out of a draft. If you look at that it's no surprise that teams are deciding to tank for not just one year, but multiple seasons in a row, then go all in for one year. The talent pool is just way too shallow to support the number of teams we currently have with talent. Even the S32 VHLM-Draft, which looks ridiculously strong compared to the most recent ones, didn't yield nearly enough players to have more then 5-6 teams good enough to compete for the playoffs. But if we decreased the number of teams so we end up with six, it would look like this: - A middle of the pack team would have the 3rd Overall now and get a good active player with it - The 2nd rounder would now be the 9th Overall, which gives you another good active - They still just get a question mark player with the 15th Overall, but now this pick is this teams 3rd rounder, not their 2nd - Their next pick is 21st Overall, which gives them an outside shot at maybe another active player Only after that the picks get shitty, but until then each team could have about 3-4 actives from that draft alone, not counting the players from previous drafts, which should make for a way more competitive league and would allow you to compete without having to prepare for that with two years of tanking. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You can run bot teams as with the STHS, you dont need to have players on Minor league teams. It would likely ruin the league though or at least that is what I would theorize since four teams would be useless. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 So now you know if I have or haven't been PM'ing them? How would they get on my team if I am lower priority? I can still tank and have guys perform well. Other teams out there have way better players and I just need a few actives. I never said I was going to go on a waiver claiming spree but like 2-3 guys coming in and being active would be nice. If they perform well, I can trade them somewhere else and help them win a ship or they can stay if they would like.No need to get testy. I never said I know if you have or haven't, but you kind of made it clear that you hadn't by your reaction to other posts. My point being that a PM goes a long way. Sometimes (in most cases) PM inbox's are connected to their email address so contacting them can bring them back. Have you at all attempted that? That's what I'm saying. I really don't think any GM has an excuse if their team is "tanking" or has "no one" on it. I'm not pointing fingers at you. I'm trying to solve a problem. If you don't want me to help this then I won't. We will just continue to have 10 active players in a 30 player draft every off-season. Which in turn makes this league (the VHLM) look like a joke. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah Romanes, scrap or get rid of the thought of removing teams. That's not a viable option for us and our sim as I told you. It just won't work. That being said, if was realistically possible I know who we could remove as they haven't even poked their heads in here to talk or claim or do anything... Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's difficult to diminish teams once an expansion occurs. It becomes unfair to the members whose teams are revoked. It creates a terrible situation. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah Romanes, scrap or get rid of the thought of removing teams. That's not a viable option for us and our sim as I told you. It just won't work. That being said, if was realistically possible I know who we could remove as they haven't even poked their heads in here to talk or claim or do anything... Oh snap, Kendrick suggesting the removal of some GM's!!!! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Btw I don't think there is an obligation for VHLM-GMs to claim 0 TPE guys and try to get them active. It would be nice if as many of them as possible did that, but we can't expect that from every GM. What we should expect from every GM though is that he tries to get good value for his team and a great way to do that, especially for rebuilding/tanking teams, is to add low-risk guys that have a low chance, but still a chance, to pan out via the Draft or through Waivers. GMs shouldn't try to keep players active for the good for the league (although this would be a good reason too), but for the good of their own team. Taking a new guy and helping him out, or turning a 0 TPE guy into a 50 TPE guy over the course of the junior season isn't some abstract good deed you do for the league, it's something that's good for your team. A cup-run doesn't just start in the year you are going for the cup, it starts way earlier. I had to experience that first hand when I was drafted by a team full of inactives in the 3rd round, but their GM didn't just give up on the season, he did his best to keep me happy and interested. A season later, the second year of his teams rebuild, he was able to trade me for a 1st and a 2nd rounder - two picks that would help him win a championship a year later! So I think giving up on a season and not even checking the waivers/the draft is very short-sighted, most great teams build the foundation for their cup-winning squads in years where the actually didn't have a chance to do much damage. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I know there are many problems that would come with diminishing teams, but a 10 team VHLM will never work properly. We could triple the number of new members over night and would still barely be able to sustain a junior league with that many teams. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah Romanes, scrap or get rid of the thought of removing teams. That's not a viable option for us and our sim as I told you. It just won't work. That being said, if was realistically possible I know who we could remove as they haven't even poked their heads in here to talk or claim or do anything... The topic hasn't even been up for 24 hours yet. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 What I don't understand is what GM's have to lose by claiming an inactive member and messaging them? Best case scenario you gain an active, and if nothing occurs, then you gain a player who will probably have no impact on your team. There is no reason a GM shouldn't try messaging these inactives. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The topic hasn't even been up for 24 hours yet.This topic is in continuation of the Waiver Thread. I've seen them online too. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/2/#findComment-25569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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