Suggestion turned MS [1/2]

[Quik 4,113]

Fixing Welfare / Making the league more competitive

 

Yeah, I'm sure some are sick of me coming up with ideas to make the league easier for some people You could all do yourselves a favour and add me to the BoG, then I'd just keep this kind of shit in that forum lol

 

Anyways, I think one way to entice new members to stick around is to beef up the welfare system. I understand that it's kept lower in order to reward members who are actively putting in te effort and posting PTs, but even that system is fairly crap now too. With insta-6, nobody really cares about quality content, and a lot of stuff ends up being low-effort anyways.

 

I think there's a few ways that we could up activity across the league, in regards to changing the PT system.

 

1. Get rid of the 590/VHL.com point. Again, most of these are shit-posts, and nobody gives a shit about them to begin with. I'd get rid of the point for that, and fold it into the weekly PT/welfare system. You can still keep it around, for people who want to post random shit that's league related, but no points for posting there. I think it's redundant and unnecessary to make people force out 150 words for 1TPE.

 

2. Get rid of the first level of Pension, and bump Welfare to that level. With the ease of hitting 400 TPE nowadays, having one player hit that level isn't that special. Get rid of that level. Now, it's 7 if you do a PT, 5 if you have a pair of 400TPE players, and 4 for newcomers.

 

3. Have activity check-ins. Do it the same as VHLM, but instead of 1 TPE/week, it's TPE given out at the end of the season. Something like 8 check-ins = 5 TPE, 6 = 3 TPE and 4 = 1 TPE. It could be the same thing, where you link to a comment in a game thread, or you could just have a check-in thread that everyone needs to post in. You could even do the same for people who complete PTs. That way, you're still encouraging people to complete their PTs.

 

4. Change the update scale. Obviously with the added TPE to players, it would require a new update scale to keep from people maxing out too easily. Something like 40-60 = 1, 60-75 = 2, 75-85 = 3. So to get an attribute up to 85, it would now cost an extra 15 points (80 vs the current 65).

 

I really think this is a solid way to up activity and get those new members that the league is sorely lacking. If you have guys getting a bit more TPE, their players start to show some more quality, and activity check-ins mean people stick around a bit more as well. Plus, making it harder to max out stats levels the playing field a bit, giving the "weaker" and younger players more chance to have an impact than they do right now.

 

I'd rather the league be filled with active members and decent players than have 10-15 core members who are TPE whores, but everyone else is quiet. Part of the fun of the league is feeling like you're a part of something. Interacting with other members and making friends is a huge reason why many are here/joined in the first place.

 

Make an "Activities Center" Forum, with a stickied post where everyone keeps track of their activity checks. Then post different threads where people can check in. "Hockey Memorabilia" thread where you post a picture and/or just a story about your favourite piece(s) of sports memorabilia, "Pro-Sport Encounters" where you talk about pro athletes you've met, etc. You could even move the off-topic style discussions there/make it a part of that. Then, each week, you just make your posts that show some activity, and in the main thread you just update your post like:

 

Nov 06-12: Link 1 / Link 2 / Link 3

Nov 13-19: Link 1 / Link 2 / Link 3

 

etc. for the full season. After the season is done, someone tallies all the legit check-ins, and announces the activity points earner, and you start again the following training camp.

 

 

On 11/7/2017 at 1:46 PM, Spade18 said:

It's person to person I think.  I'm in the EFL, and I just link to my MS here.  but that doesnt stop me from participating in predictions and reddit recruitment and posting in the sim threads there.  I think it could work.

 

I mean, that's not the worst thing in the world, but I don't know that affiliating with a PT done in another league is the answer. Like, I'm only in the VHL, so if I did want to go the welfare route - were I a new member - affiliating with another league does nothing for me. I think the key is to do something in-house, rather than relying on activity in other leagues. Upping it from a literal pittance is a start. Whether or not people want to agree, bonus points for activity is another. It's easy, and has a high chance at retaining members who are continually coming back. And changing the update scale keeps the added TPE opportunities from breaking the sim.

 

I get that there's tradition, and this could change the league for many players, plus the transition of going from players who've already updated past the 85 scale to members who haven't hit it yet, but IMO it makes the league more competitive, which is what's fun. Get as many active members as you can, even if they don't create superstars, and the league can be much more competitive, which is way more fun than being on a losing team.

 

I don't think nerfing welfare is the way to go. I think making it 4 for everyone is a better way to do it if you don't want members making 5 TPE off of a pension claim. If anyone really has a problem with people claiming welfare when they're not even putting in large effort in their own PTs anyways, then that's their own problem, IMO. Personally though, I think keeping the pension for guys with 2 400TPE players is fine, when you consider it's just the 4 TPE + the 1 TPE for 590s that nobody gives a fuck about anyways. These are members who have shown activity before, so it's not just guys who come in, claim, and leave. I think some loyalty to those of us who have put in years here is deserved.

 

I mean, even if we go the 7/5/4 route, over the course of an 8 week season plus 2 week off-season, someone who submits PTs every week would, with my layout, earn at least 25 TPE/season more than the pensioners (2x10 + 5 for completing 8 PTs), and 35 more than the welfare players. Add in that the PT players are also more likely to have jobs/review/do trivia, and that jumps up possibly another 30. So if you have guys earning up to 65 TPE/season more than the welfare players, that's still enough that PT players will be better, but the guys who just want to be here don't have to deal with being in the minors for 3-4 seasons and then hitting depreciation the minute they get decent.

 

And if we go this route, with changing the update scale as well, there's no need for archetypes IMO, either. Guys would need to be more selective with their TPE, and maxing out stats would be a lot more difficult (and the player-store would be more important). I mean, 510 TPE would create a legit scorer with 90 SC, 85 SK/PH/DF, 80 PA/ST, and 70 CK. Let's say that in the time it takes to get 510 TPE through PT route, without doing any other stuff like trivia and jobs, predictions, etc., it would give a pensioner ~380, and a welfare player ~310. Pension scorer could have 85 SC, 80 SK/PH, 75 PA/DF, 70 ST and 65 CK while welfare scorer would be slightly worse and probably have to neglect CK.

 

So yeah, changing the system would mean that everyone needs to be a bit more selective in how they update their player, but it also means that players become more realistic, and there's not this gigantic gulf between players, while the guys who are putting in more effort are clearly going to be the better/star players. It might mean changing depreciation a bit as well, and tacking on a year or 2 at the end of a player's career might be cool too, but I really think this would help the league attract more users and be more competitive.

 

If we assume there's 10 weeks in a season, and players start 1 full season in the VHLM pre-draft, with VHLM Bonus (say max, even though not everyone hits it -- and twice for non-PT guys who would return to VHLM after draft), Predictions (let's say an avg payout of 3 TPE?), Trivia (we'll say 8 TPE for PT guys, and 3 for non-PT guys), Donations (2x Doubles for PT, 2x 5TPE for non-PT and no use of doubles), Activity Bonus (5), PT Bonus (5), Bio + RP done pre-draft for PT guys, and no job/other TPE earned, the triple breakdown of TPE per season would be (assuming everyone starts with 30, even though PT players are more likely to have carryover):

 

Season --- PT --- PP --- WF

PreDraft --- 172 --- 97 --- 87

S1 --- 144 (316) --- 107 (204) --- 97 (184)

S2 --- 144 (460) --- 87 (291) --- 77 (261)

S3 --- 144 (604) --- 87 (378) --- 77 (338)

S4 --- 144 (748) --- 87 (465) --- 77 (415)

S5 --- 144 (892) --- 87 (552) --- 77 (492)

S6 --- 144 (1036) --- 87 (639) --- 77 (569)

S7 --- 144 (1180) --- 87 (726) --- 77 (646)

S8 --- 144 (1324) --- 87 (813) --- 77 (723)

 

Eventually, we'd have to raise the bar for Pension, since hitting 500 shouldn't be difficult, but there's a very clear divide still between PT players and non-PT players. Even with my suggested update scale, PT players would be able to hit stardom in their 3rd season, while it would take almost all non-depreciation years for non-PT guys to get to that point. They'd be able to create solid players still, guys who score 30 goals and come close to PPG, which makes it a lot more fun for them, but they wouldn't be able to hit superstar levels unless they get very lucky, like Krigars and Locke this season. I get the fear of breaking the league, but it just won't happen. Hell, even with the new update scale, by the time they start their 5th season, PT players would be able to max out 2 attributes, have a 95, two 90s, an 85 and a 60. And that's without having a job that pays an extra 20 TPE/season. Honestly, after laying it out like that, I think an even harsher update scale might be necessary lol. Looking at it this way, I'd push it to:

 

40-60 = 1 / 60-70 =2 / 70-80 = 3 / 80-85 = 4 / 85-90 = 5 / 90-95 = 6 / 95-99 = 7

 

That would cost 173 to max out an attribute, vs the originally proposed 149, and the current 134. It's still possible to max out an attribute or 2, but again, is more realistic in doing so, in that it sacrifices other possible skills.

 

So this is pretty much my entire opinion on the matter of fixing the point distribution in the league. You up welfare to 4, I would keep a pension worth 5 - but you could do without that if you want, welfare @ 4 still gives a solid player - and make PTs worth 7. Nerf the redundancy of the 590/vhl.com or whatever you want to call it. And make it harder to max skills. Doing that will give new members an easier way to become accustomed to the league, hopefully turning them into active members who move on to submitting PTs. But now I've passed 2000 words (excluding the quote from @Spade18), and nobody's going to read this giant wall of text anyways.

 

Claiming for the weeks of: Nov 13-19, Nov 20-26, Nov 27-Dec 03, & Dec 04-10.

Edited November 22, 2017 by CowboyinAmerica

[Beaviss 4,949]

I read most of it! 

 

Agree with Ish almost all the points here especially the 590. I don't even do them beacuse I can't get my point across in 150 words.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

Review:

People need to read this, because I think you raise a lot of good points @Quik and I have to admit you have been amazing since you got back into the VHL. I wasn't really around or wasn't old enough to understand the VHL back when you were around but now I see how valuable you are as a member. I think you should be added to the BOG because you have a lot of great suggestions.

[Quik 4,113]

14 hours ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

Review:

People need to read this, because I think you raise a lot of good points @Quik and I have to admit you have been amazing since you got back into the VHL. I wasn't really around or wasn't old enough to understand the VHL back when you were around but now I see how valuable you are as a member. I think you should be added to the BOG because you have a lot of great suggestions.

Thanks man, means a lot! VHL is definitely something I care about, it was a huge part of my teenage years, and I was really happy that it was still around when I looked it up a few months ago. Lots of great memories here and I'd like to pass the same type of experience to the new members joining nowadays.

[STZ 5,339]

@Quik the new @Devise

[Quik 4,113]

1 hour ago, STZ said:

@Quik the new @Devise

??? lol

[Baozi 1,658]

I'm with this.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

5 hours ago, STZ said:

@Quik the new @Devise

thats a compliment to Devise but an insult to quik

[STZ 5,339]

4 hours ago, Quik said:

??? lol

 

He likes words

[Quik 4,113]

51 minutes ago, STZ said:

 

He likes words

Werdz are phun!

 

[Devise 4,475]

I prefer to think of that as a compliment to both of us. But have no fear, as Quik knows he is absolutely BoG bound.