Jericho

Oo this gets spicy. With a dead tracker and a dead investigator we're starting to see some pick offs. I sheriff checked on Devise last night to check for Mike's suspicions and can confirm that Mike was correct. Devise came up suspicious. This also confirms Mike as a legit sheriff.

1. Failed to make the playoffs. 2. My player won every game he played in S76, he is the greatest goalie the league has ever seen. 3. Gym, Tan, Laundry. 4. Any team with a shot at the post season. 5. I don't, I haven't watched NHL games regularly since like 2011. 6. Spring is dope. Cool enough to start ditching heavy jackets, not so hot you want to die every time you step outside, and no fucking snow to clear every goddamn time it snows.

I counted 12 for Flex, ignoring the one 16z dead as a corpse. This is giving our good mayor his 3 of course.

Devise's answer is the nail in the coffin for me. Vote MMFLEX

For the record I'll be mostly not around for the next 4ish hours as I'm working if anyone has additional questions. Job gonna job.

I went to visit Berocka. I did a sheriff investigation and he came up clean.

Ok NEEDS to be a change is maybe a little premature. It's worth talking about, the necessity is not really established yet. You're being a little choosy if you think Bek saying "Hey there's like legit damage that can be done if we let just anyone have access to the sim engine it has admin powers that can fuck things" reduces down to "We don't trust". That's a legit issue that would need to be solved before giving out simming privileges to anyone, which is why changes in simmer have been chosen ver carefully over the years. You're being a little intentionally reductionist here. You seem to have glossed over a bunch of bullshit on Gorlab's behalf but are really stuck on some of the criticisms with a few pretty poorly thought out reasons. "Old people = busy/can't" was a response to "There's clearly no good reason we wouldn't do this ever under any circumstances". Again there's merit to the concept in general, but pushback is also totally fine. "None of those are helpful in trying to ease the situation" is kind of silly when the first take was a wild and baseless accusation at Bek's character. That sure as fuck wasn't helpful or trying to ease any situation.

A few people did a better job of making that point than I did, the overall sentiment was that things are a lot more complicated on the back end than they appear and a bunch of people had some takes that assumed otherwise. Also I'm now having an early life crisis that we consider late 20s and early 30s to be old men, but I digress. I was feeling like Dennis in the Sunny episode about whether science was real and everyone was looking at Mac's argument and putting themselves on the fence. As I said before there is totally merit in the discussion as long as it's coming from a place of good faith and well reasoned argument. Most people on that side of the argument have been doing that. The original post was anything but.

Having taken the night to think about it I've come to two conclusions. 1. We super need to separate the conversation of live simming from talking about Beketov's integrity. As said before there is merit to that conversation in a vacuum, although he did raise some pretty legit reasons why that gets complicated but that discussion is totally fine. 2. Absolutely no case was built to support the rigging argument. Gorlab cherrypicked one stat that looked favourable to his conclusion and people read that as "That stat is true, so his conclusion is correct. Several members, including Beketov himself brought evidence forward about variables that would have affected that. Gorlab was either too malicious or too stupid to do his due diligence and this argument shouldn't be given the time of day. Using a single data point, regardless of how true the point is doesn't mean you can make conclusions based on that. For example "I had the best W/L record in the VHLM, therefore I should be top goalie" is in a similar vein. That statement is true, 100% accurate. The issue is it ignores the context that says I only played 3 games. Gorlab did the same thing here, ignoring countless factors to sling shade on someone for no reason, either out of malice or stupidity. The rest of this discussion should only be about the validity of live simming, and Gorlab's take should be treated like the trashfire conspiracy theory of a lunatic it deserves to be.

So a couple of things. One: The simmers swap leagues every year. Two: Arguing for live simming is one thing, arguing that Bek is cheating is a very different thing. Gorlab pulled his conclusions out of his ass, and Beketov shouldn't be mentioned in the discussion for the remainder of the discussion. Live simming as a discussion is all good, I personally disagree but there's a discussion to be had. My issue was ENTIRELY with the way this was presented. From the the baseless accusations to the horribly misrepresented data this was completely inappropriate. The suggestion could have been made without dragging a storied member through the mud for no reason.

You have to stop calling this evidence, it's literally the furthest thing from it. You can't look at one set of numbers and draw ANY conclusion from them. Overall league scoring goes up and down from season to season. I have seen seasons where the points lead was as high as 180 and as low as 99. There is a reason you have to look at these stats in context and need WAY more data points to draw these conclusions. Plus he won Best two way forward and MVP in a season he wasn't simming, which is apparently all you need to prove a point so there I guess?

Too short didn't read. Needs a third paragraph. Jk this is actually a much better summation of the point I was trying to make.

You clearly forgot the 43 page Kesler and I did back in the day. Or half of the Seattle-NY arguments in the 20s. Our edgy youth!

I don't think I'll go back, that place is a cesspool. A special someone got angry and decided to get wrecked in real time.

No Gorlab got salty and tagged me in gen chat and then when he lost 3 arguments he went to taking shots at my wife. I disagree with you but you haven't been arguing in bad faith. I have respect for your take because you didn't come in full of bad faith.

See this is a totally fine take. There's a difference between "Hey I think live simming is a good idea all the time" and "Beketov definitely cheated and this must be a thing now." One of those is the thought process of a rational person. The other is a lunatic who loses an argument and immediately jumps into ad-hominum because of his own in built insecurities.

my issue is that this is like the 15th time i've seen this out of Gorlab, and it's equally poorly reasoned out every time

So you've moved the goalposts. Before it was about making us absolutely certain nothing fishy was up, now it's about making sure we're reasonably sure nothing weird is going on. 99% of the league is reasonably sure nothing weird is going on. Gorlab has a history of hissy fits and conspiracy theories when things don't go his way. He used to insta-retire in the 20s and 30s, now he's found his new favourite method. Providing one data point and drawing conclusions from it that you can't accurately make are not a good enough reason to make rigging claims. This is the claims of one person who made a post long enough that a few people who have no idea how the scientific method works got on board and people are acting like they've cracked the case wide open. This is not data, it should not be treated as such.

Oh thank god we finally have an adult here. I feel like I was taking crazy pills.

Ok let's entertain this logic line. So the way a simmer would cheat would be to trial and error the results until they came out favorably to them. So if they stream it in theory they couldn't do that right? Well if we're giving them the infinite time you seem to think a bunch of dudes in their thirties have, what's to stop them from recording the fake sim and then streaming that and acting like it's live? You could ask them to do it at a time where people are around so they have to interact with chat but now you're dictating which hours the sim can be to people who already have adult-level commitments and may or may not be available at those times 7 days a week. The "Well we can eliminate 100% doubt if we add these restrictions for things we've never had an issue with" is the same argument people make with voter ID laws for voter fraud, and those get squashed for similar reasons.

as someone with a bit more inside baseball, simming already takes a decent amount of time. The simmers are all dudes in their 30s who have a lot going on and adding a headache because Gorlab is paranoid again isn't worth justifying. He was like this in the 40s, he clearly hasn't grown up as much as the rest of us since then. We already stream the playoffs when the simmer is in that and it's a big hassle. For those it makes sense because a few games are super indicative of success or failure, but rigging a 72 game season would take so much extra time to the point where it's unfeasible. He'd have to account not only for individual stats, but also team stats and he'd have to resim every single time for games were things went his way, and make sure his opponents didn't also do just as well in that sim.

Ok My analysis: Gorlab isn't smart enough to make sweeping statements like this. My evidence is this thread.

Also the duck quote is basically you saying "Muh feels"