Devise 4,475 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bonino, Clendening, and a second for Sutter and a conditional third. This trade is interesting, we move a very cap friendly player in there prime (Bonino) and a solid young 7-9 defensemen and a pick (I am assuming its the Anaheim one) for a young (well 26 so) and a third. We are actually taking on cap from this trade because Bonino was only at 1.9 and Sutter is at like 3.3. I do like this trade and if Sutter can immediately jump into that second line center position and play a shut down role and still put up points we may have won this deal. I know Sutter was limited on the Pens with third line ice time + special teams but he still put up around thirty points. So I am hoping for him to get at least player a larger role. I think Sutter has the potential to be more than a third line guy, it's just a matter of if he can reach it. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) What an awful fucking trade. Younger, cheaper players and a 2nd for a fucking 4th line centre who happens to be a UFA next season. Sutter is awful. He dragged down the Corsi of even Malkin and Crosby! What in the actual fuck is Jim Benning doing? Make up your fucking mind and rebuild, or compete already. Preferably the former of those two options. Kill me, please. Edited July 28, 2015 by Sandro Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Toronto was all about corsi last season... it didn't help . Sutter might be the best 3rd line center in the league imo Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Toronto was all about corsi last season... it didn't help . Sutter might be the best 3rd line center in the league imo Corsi isn't the only stat the matters. Look at the fucking HERO chart. Sutter is a black hole in terms of possession, and he doesn't suppress shots well enough to counteract that. He's paid more, he's going to be a UFA next summer, and we're going to lose Bonino's offensive production. Him, Matthias, Kassian, gone... That's a lot of scoring that's gone with no one to replace it. This team is turning into a fucking tire fire, fast, and the sooner Benning is told to fuck off to Boston the better things will be. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 No one to replace? Yeah because Horvat is not getting better, Vey is not getting better, Baerschi is not getting better, Virtanen is not getting better. Watch sutter come in and put up 40 on our second line and play a strong defensive game. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Baertschi and Virtanen are wingers. Virtanen will be lucky to get 9 games, he stalled offensively in the WHL. Vey is a fringe NHLer right now. Horvat is being thrust into a second line roll with pretty much no back up now. Brandon Sutter is a pending UFA, a fucking black hole possession-wise, and is not as strong defensively as everyone is deluded enough to believe. And we gave up Clendening and a 2nd for no fucking reason. P.S. NHL GMs are using those same analytics that the "armchair GM bloggers" use. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's like Sandro wants them to rebuild but be a Stanley cup champion all at once. Make up your damn mind. It's not a horrible trade, but hey the sky is falling and the Cubbies are winning the world series, run!!!!! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarch 3,150 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Fuck you Kendrick Kendrick 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's like Sandro wants them to rebuild but be a Stanley cup champion all at once. Make up your damn mind. It's not a horrible trade, but hey the sky is falling and the Cubbies are winning the world series, run!!!!! I want them to rebuild. But the team keeps saying they're competing. This is not a trade that helps a rebuild, and it doesn't do much to help them contend either. Sutter is a downgrade from Bonino, then they threw in a 22 year old defenceman and a 2nd round pick for shits and giggles. It's a terrible trade, there's clearly no plan guiding this management group, and I'm ready for Benning to be fired. TheLastOlympian07 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Do you not understand that the difference between an Anaheim 2nd and a Buffalo 3rd will not be that much different? Sutter is an upgrade and is younger, Clendening was used to balance the trade out. Having a center core of Sedin-Sutter-Horvat-Vey is a very young core down the middle. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastOlympian07 2,388 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 i agree with Sandro, In Nick Bonino (1season) Luca Sbisa Derek Dorsett Linden Vey Ryan Miller Will Acton Andrey Pedan Adam Clendening (1/4 season) Sven Baertschi Cory Conacher Brandon Prust Brandon Sutter Out Ryan Kesler Jason Garrison Jeff Costello Nick bonino Kevin Bieksa Eddie Lack Gustav Forsling Shawn Matthias Brad Richardson plus picks here and there, Idk about you but Eddie Lack for peanuts really pissed me off Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Do you not understand that the difference between an Anaheim 2nd and a Buffalo 3rd will not be that much different? Sutter is an upgrade and is younger, Clendening was used to balance the trade out. Having a center core of Sedin-Sutter-Horvat-Vey is a very young core down the middle. Nothing wrong with that. It's not the Buffalo 3rd. It's the higher of Vancouver or NYI's 3rd. Get your facts right. Sutter is 10 months younger, and a downgrade in every way except maybe his hairline. It's also a terrible group that relies on Horvat to step his game up immensely if they want to have a hope in hell of scoring goals. Edited July 28, 2015 by Sandro Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Imma post the HERO charts again since people seem to enjoy ignoring them. Here's Nick Bonino. Not a defensive stalwart, but hey he puts up points! And here's Brandon Sutter... Oh look he doesn't do either of those those things well. Maybe this will be easier for you to understand. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sutter plays as shutdown center, those stats are irrelevant. If you want a shutdown center that is able to put tons of pts and control the game, those are Anze Kopitar and Jonathan Toews. Sutter fills the defensive aspect that Kesler left. You can find a Bonino elsewhere. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 And 21 goals for a 3rd line center is amazing. Player like him (ex Troy Brouwer) are top 3rd line players in the league and brings more than just pts and corsi Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Gilbert had a good corsi but was the worst D in MTL so corsi isn't everything Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sutter plays as shutdown center, those stats are irrelevant. If you want a shutdown center that is able to put tons of pts and control the game, those are Anze Kopitar and Jonathan Toews. Sutter fills the defensive aspect that Kesler left. You can find a Bonino elsewhere. Yes, they are relevant. A shutdown center would suppress shots. That's their fucking job. If they don't, then they suck at their fucking job. Sutter isn't half the player Kesler was, or still is. And yeah, replacing a 40 point centre getting paid under $2M a year for the next two years is so easy. I should always trust your judgement, boubabi. You know everything. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Boubabi, you do realize I'm referencing a helluva lot more than just Corsi, right? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Oh right, I forgot the famous defensive system of Pitsburgh. Yes your GM is bad, but I would trust his hockey judgment over anyone here. Its been told that Bonino didn't want to play for Vancouver so give him a chance. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The stats that you are bringing are based on the offensive production of a player, so yes they are irrelevant because it favors offensive players. Bonino was playing with better offensive players than Sutter, it's like comparing Eller to Desharnais Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) The stats that you are bringing are based on the offensive production of a player, so yes they are irrelevant because it favors offensive players. Bonino was playing with better offensive players than Sutter, it's like comparing Eller to Desharnais THERE ARE LITERALLY STATS ABOUT DEFENSIVE PLAY IN THE HERO CHARTS. YOU AREN'T EVEN TRYING. The only thing Sutter has on those charts that is better is his GA60 +/-, and it's not that enough of an improvement to make up for the colossal drop off in every other aspect. Edited July 28, 2015 by Sandro Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I do think sutter is better at what he does than Bonino. Yes, Bonino is a better offensive player but he pretty much already on his max potential compared to sutter who's been restricted to the 3rd line role in Pittsburgh Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Its been told that Bonino didn't want to play for Vancouver so give him a chance. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Bonino literally just bought a house. Where the fuck is it said he doesn't want to play for Vancouver? This is the same sort of bullshit that comes up after every trade. Like... WTF. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I do think sutter is better at what he does than Bonino. Yes, Bonino is a better offensive player but he pretty much already on his max potential compared to sutter who's been restricted to the 3rd line role in Pittsburgh I don't see how you can say Bonino is at his best when Sutter is 10 fucking months younger than him. If Bonino has topped out, so has Sutter. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Oh right, I forgot the famous defensive system of Pitsburgh. Yes your GM is bad, but I would trust his hockey judgment over anyone here. Its been told that Bonino didn't want to play for Vancouver so give him a chance. Right, because the Canucks are such a defensively strong team that Sutter will fit right in and improve. THIS TEAM PLAYS LUCA FUCKING SBISA 20 MINUTES A NIGHT. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/12151-2014-2015-nhl-discussion/page/104/#findComment-250142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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