Hall of Not Bad, Volume 6: Lasse Milo (and Evgeni Fyodorov!)

[Gustav 6,395]

"Lasse Milo followed in the footsteps of his agent and became Mr. Vasteras"

-@sterling, VHL 30 in 30 #27

 

"[HoF teammate Tukka Reikkinen] and Milo benefited from being the only good players on their teams."

-@.sniffuM, A Muffin's Take on a S20s VHL Dream Team

 

"Very similar stats [to Tyson Kohler, subject of HoNB #5], though Milo has a Beketov and a cup..... why isn't Milo on the ballot lol"

-@Victor, S62 BoG Hall of Fame Discussion

 

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"Jardy and Kyle argued that Fyodorov would have been a Hall of Famer had he stayed active. You can make that argument about Kronos Bailey today. The thing is, Fyodorov might just be anyway."

-@Victor, Not in the HoF: Evgeni Fyodorov

 

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Ah yes, the S20s. I've been here less than 30 seasons, and our subjects were drafted over 40 seasons before me, so this is a deep dive as far as I'm concerned. It's our earliest ever HoNB, with a couple extending into the later S40s but none before that. There are a few reasons for this--in cases like Alexander Pepper (HoNB #1) and Shawn Glade (#2), we were talking about players that I remembered personally, and in each of the others (Boeser/Holik/Kohler), the article was about someone who I'd seen discussion about in BoG. Here, the only time either name in our title was mentioned in BoG in my time was in the S72 discussion thread, which I don't remember at all and most certainly did not cause me to learn any league history. I came across Milo's name on our all-time stats spreadsheet, and even though some of the places where his name has been mentioned on the forum are threads that I've been through before, I still more or less learned all about him over the past couple days as I went back and actually paid attention.

 

But anyway, Lasse Milo. @PensFan101 (who made the HoF as a builder in S30) was the first GM of Vasteras and remained in that role until S14 as the longest-tenured original VHL GM. He'd lead a Scotty Campbell-centric team to the VHL's first ever championship and helped to create a unique team identity that made Vasteras (despite its long-standing curse) a favorite for many dedicated VHLers. It was following a strong personal connection to the franchise that it came as no surprise to the league that Milo, PensFan's player, came to Vasteras in S23.

 

As stated above, Milo led the league in assists (in S27) and won a rare championship with the Iron Eagles (in S26). Save for one season partially spent in Seattle, he was a career lifer, racking up four seasons above 100 points--including that Beketov-winning season in S27 with a total of 147. It's no stretch of the imagination to say that he was a great player, but the Hall of Fame requires players to be taken in the context of their eras. And the S20s were an era of great players--the S23 class also featured @Squinty's Leeroy Jenkins, who broke 800 points and a remarkable 2100 hits, while S26-28 held four players in the top 15 all-time in points. I think we can (and should) do our best to separate the early S20s from the late ones, but even when we do that, there's quite a bit to consider.

 

With that being said, it would be remiss to neglect Evgeni Fyodorov in this article. Many times Milo is brought up, so is Fyodorov, and for good reason. Part of the draft just two seasons earlier than Milo in S21 (and making it up to the VHL in S22), Fyodorov was attached to one of the VHL's most important historical anecdotes. This was also covered in a VHL 30 in 30, but as a short recap, Fyodorov was created by a controversial member who provided one of the league's most impactful changes--facilitating the VHL's move from its old forum to this one--and very soon after flamed out completely. Built to perfection, Fyodorov continued to be a great player through his agent's inactivity and even through his own depreciation, breaking 100 points three times and never falling below 85. Like Milo, Fyodorov does have somewhat of an awards cabinet, winning two championships in S23 and S25 and sharing the Brooks trophy for the league lead in goals in S26. Though his agent would check in later as @fyo, the league has never seen another player from one of its most short-lived members to be deserving of remembrance years later.

 

Usually, my HoNB articles have focused on one player's chances at induction, but these two are similar enough that I think they both deserve to be evaluated as players with a chance. Both have been part of championship-winning teams, and both have an award. Really, the only difference is that Milo has an extra season, giving him a lower point rate (because of a slower start) but higher point totals. I think Fyodorov makes up for this with, well, a higher point rate, but I would also say that there's some intangible stuff that I'll talk about later.

 

Although we're talking about two players, not in HoNB fashion, we'll do the same thing to compare them to the rest in HoNB fashion by comparing them with others in the same era both in and out of the VHL Hall of Fame. We'll skip Leeroy Jenkins, who I mentioned earlier, and S25's Ansgar Snijider, for the reason that both were huge as two-way forwards and I'd rather not need to compare players based on an added level of "let's figure out how much the difference in hits sets them apart," and thankfully we have enough of a player pool to use others. Namely...

 

Tuukka Reikkinen: a HoF player. From one Vasteras GM to another, we go from PensFan to Milo's teammate in @.sniffuM. Drafted 4th overall in S25, it's not at all controversial to say that Reikkinen deserves the HoF. 20th all-time in points, Reikkinen led the league in points twice, won MVP once, and took home two Cups. Oh, and he's our exception to the "we won't talk about players with lots of hits" rule--with over 1800 to add to this, he's our "very clearly a HoFer" benchmark. 

 

Felix Peters: a HoF player. An inspiration to HoF hopefuls everywhere, Peters, created by @gregreg, started in S24 and waited until S52 to make it in. Very similar to both of our subjects, Peters has one individual award (playoff MVP in S28) and two championships, and posted four seasons over 100 points. Finishing his career with 769 points, it's important to note that Peters was not a heavy hitter and is thus suitable for purely offensive comparison to both Milo and Fyodorov.

 

Ignatius Feltersnatch: NOT a HoF player. A @sherifflobo create, Feltersnatch was one of the odd ones out in an otherwise generally storied agency. That's not to say that he wasn't still a really good player, though--starting in the unusually high-scoring S20 after one season down in the M, Feltersnatch never won an individual award, but does have a Cup win in S22. There's not a whole lot separating Feltersnatch from Fyodorov (only 7 points), but I've only come across one of those players consistently mentioned as a HoF candidate.

 

To dive into the numbers a bit, here's this:

 

 

 

Tracking both goals and points over the course of each player's career, it's easy to say that Reikkinen is a step ahead of the rest (hit totals notwithstanding). And if we look at career totals, of course, Milo appears to be a tiny step behind. He's really not that far off from the HoFer in Peters, but someone looking at these charts wouldn't necessarily be inclined to believe that Milo deserves much. A more interesting argument, really, is the one pertaining to Fyodorov (and even Feltersnatch), who put up points at a rate pretty comparable to that of Reikkinen and just don't have the extra season that would have been needed to hit the same total. Interestingly, the goals chart pretty clearly shows the best season for both of our subjects--Fyodorov's S26 and Milo's S27 are shown in the same place and show some of the steepest slopes on the graph.

 

So, case closed, right? Milo and Fyodorov aren't on the ballot for a reason, right?

 

If you're familiar with these articles, you'd know that my answer here is always a resounding "not really." It's pretty accurate to say that I spend part of this series making cases for players (as unbiased as I try to keep it overall), but at the same time I wouldn't drag out anything I thought was total bullshit. And in this case, I think there is a legitimate case to be made by digging into the numbers a little bit.

 

One thing that I feel is ignored way too often is that the very beginning of a player's career is usually not as good as the meat and potatoes of it. This also, in my opinion, unfairly affects a player's HoF chances when looking at career totals. Why should someone who played a low-TPE rookie season in the VHL be punished for that season giving them a low point rate? Sure, Fyodorov had a 91-point rookie season, but wasn't that effectively following a 0-point post-draft season? With that in mind, shouldn't our points chart actually look like this?

 

 

If you're wondering: all I did here was move Fyodorov and Feltersnatch over one spot horizontally, so their first season lines up with all the others' second seasons after the draft.

 

I do prefer to show things the other way, because this is mostly just a plot of career totals while the other can tell you a bit about per-season performance as well, but my main point is that the start of a career affects quite a bit depending on how one chooses to frame it and I don't believe the BoG usually dives into this stuff. It was my biggest reason why I thought Jakab Holik might have a chance after all in HoNB #3, and it's a point that I think sticks out for Milo especially here. You'll notice that Milo's first two seasons flatlined somewhat, as he started with the lowest first-season total and followed that up with an even lower-scoring second season. From there, he's already at a disadvantage as far as those looking at career totals are concerned. Heck, he's about 100 points back of Fyodorov and Feltersnatch on our arguably-skewed first points chart.

 

So, what happens if we look at that good bulk of Milo's career? I don't mean to reject strong rookie campaigns altogether, and I do believe that it's valid that the highest career totals tend to get the first attention, but the HoF has tons of players who didn't start off very strong and had a very solid rest of their career. I mentioned Milo's S27 and Fyodorov's S26 as two of the best seasons on here, so how much did that actually help? Let's see what happens when we chop off those first two post-draft seasons for everyone and just look at their last six:

 

 

 

Milo isn't looking so bad, is he? And for that matter, neither is Fyodorov. Overall, Milo has the second-strongest "peak" period of all players here and outperforms Peters in both categories during the period of his career when both players excelled the most. Peters' first season (56 points) wasn't even all that different from Milo's (51) and it was only in their second season (81 vs. 43) that the point differential was substantially different in Peters' favor. So, with Peters' career total in points being just 30 higher (and his career total in goals being just 9 higher), are we really going to say that the difference in their second seasons alone, neither of which was particularly impressive on the grand scale of that player's career, is enough to draw the line between "in" and "out" of the Hall of Fame? I'm not quite sure that's fair. 

 

Similar arguments applied to Fyodorov already--those being that simply missing his first season, which shouldn't matter too much, hurt his career totals enough that he hasn't been heavily considered--but even removing the "head start" of sorts that was his 91-point second season, the peak portion of his career was just as good as anyone else's. I think there are a couple unconventional arguments that apply to Fyodorov, too--his agent's work at the time continues to shape the very identity of the VHL today, and the fact that he achieved top numbers with a lower-TPE, depreciating build certainly proved influential to those looking to make the HoF themselves. To what extent those arguments would influence one's opinion is up to the individual, but I think they're worth considering on some level. 

 

Something that negatively influences the chances of either is the fact that there were a good number of clearly better players. Reikkinen was one, for sure, but I've already mentioned that I didn't cover Jenkins or Snijider, and I'd argue that those are easily the big three of the early S20s. Plus, even though I'd say Feltersnatch is below both Milo and Fyodorov, it's at least close enough for me to say that there isn't a huge gap between either of our players here and the next available non-HoFer. 

 

On the other hand, what if this were a Milo-Fyodorov-Feltersnatch triple feature instead? The next-highest point total in the early S20s is Kevyn Hesje (under 700 points, and with all 8 seasons played), while HoFer Phil Gerrard played 7 seasons with a lower total than either 7-season player listed here (though he won significantly more awards and that's a discussion I'd rather not spend the time opening). Let's say we decided that everyone in this article measures up to the standards of the Hall of Fame--at what point are we then inducting too many? We already have three clear top choices from this era, and history says that it took some convincing for Peters to be a fourth. It would probably take a lot more convincing for us to bring that number up to 7. I do believe that Milo and Fyodorov both were good enough for induction, but I'm unsure about extending that title to Feltersnatch and don't consider getting that far very realistic.

 

 

So, is Lasse Milo (and is Evgeni Fyodorov) a Hall of Fame player?

 

I think so in at least the case of Milo, but I think it would have to be a long road to get to that point. I think Milo is the easiest one to induct because Peters offers the most direct comparison--and I also think that they couldn't be more similar as players. If Peters deserves it, then so does Milo. I genuinely have no clue how one could argue that the line is in whatever small space there is between those two. And it's not that Fyodorov is worse, it's just that the HoF doesn't have that easy comparison and thus it would be more difficult to say that we should go for it to an audience who mostly wasn't around in the S20s. Arguing for Fyodorov also should naturally bring Feltersnatch into the conversation, which I don't think would be very beneficial for Fyodorov's chances.

 

So, I think that both players, but especially Milo, are going to be worth bringing up as the BoG prepares to not talk about them for the 20th season straight. Whether that goes anywhere...well, HoNB history says it won't, but a builder can dream.

 

 

I'm not sure what the voting cutoffs are, but Lasse Milo was removed from the HoF ballot in S36 upon receiving 4 out of 9 votes (Feltersnatch was removed that same season unanimously). He has not made it to the ballot since, but has been mentioned a handful of times across articles and subsequent HoF discussion threads.

 

I don't see Evgeni Fyodorov in any removal poll (or discussion thread), which suggests to me that he was removed before those were even a thing. Like Milo, he's been brought up in HoF discussion, but never voted upon in the modern era.

 

Interestingly, every player in this article found their way to @Victor's All-Time International Teams article last month. Additionally, I'd recommend a look at @Corco's Memoirs of a Former Vasteras GM and @.sniffuM's A Stroll Down Muffmory Lane if you haven't had enough S20s Vasteras history.

 

 

Previous HoNB articles:

Volume 1: Alexander Pepper

Volume 2: Shawn Glade

Volume 3: Jakab Holik

Volume 4: Bo Boeser

Volume 5: Tyson Kohler

[Victor 10,911]

8 hours ago, Gustav said:

Ignatius Feltersnatch: NOT a HoF player. A @sherifflobo create, Feltersnatch

Sherifflobo and Slobo are actually very different people. Sheriff disappeared without a trace once upon a time but is certainly not as storied as Slobo 

 

8 hours ago, Gustav said:

-@sterling, VHL 30 in 30 #27

Sterling forever getting the credit for posting them here smh

 

8 hours ago, Gustav said:

facilitating the VHL's move from its old forum to this one

It was actually to the 2nd one which then got DDOSd in S35 which prompted our move here.

 

Other than the nitpicks, good read. Not sure I have the energy to bring back these old names and start comparing them to the current era especially with this season's culling of the ballot.

[Gustav 6,395]

7 hours ago, Victor said:

Sherifflobo and Slobo are actually very different people. Sheriff disappeared without a trace once upon a time but is certainly not as storied as Slobo 

 

Sterling forever getting the credit for posting them here smh

 

It was actually to the 2nd one which then got DDOSd in S35 which prompted our move here.

 

Other than the nitpicks, good read. Not sure I have the energy to bring back these old names and start comparing them to the current era especially with this season's culling of the ballot.

 

Damn, just when you think you know everything. 
 

I do think it would be worth it to mention Milo at some point, maybe in a weaker season as far as more recent players are concerned. I don’t think it’s a question of whether he’d deserve it over someone from S80-something, more so one related to whether the other inductions of the era justify it (which I think they do) and whether the other players on the ballot deserve it immediately (which is very situation-specific). 

[sterling 1,997]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:22 AM, Victor said:

 

Sterling forever getting the credit for posting them here smh

 

 

LOL I thought the same thing when I read this. Although I did write some of them, many were written by others. 1-20 would primarily belong to Zero.