PIMs in Fantasy League

[Jala 922]

With the regular season over the final standings will be tallied some time this week, and with that I pose a question to those of you who participated in this season's VHFL.

 

Do you guys think that PIMs are too much of a detriment to the fantasy points a player is worth?

 

Updating the standings through the season, I noticed a lot of players were being penalized really harshly through the large amount of PIMs they accrued, which coincides with the high number of hits they tally. The best two examples would be Karnage and Reencarnacion, both of which have really high point totals (amongst the tops in the league) and high hit tallys, but their fantasy values aren't mind-blowingly better then some of those who aren't as physical and have lower point totals.

 

The point of PIMs, as I remember it from like a year ago when this was being discussed in the BoG, was to balance out heavy hitters with those who aren't as physical. Seeing the impact that they have on the fantasy scores first-hand has made me think that they are too high and penalize picking players who hit a lot but also draw a lot of penalties because of it. Some lower tier players are terrible choices, because despite having a higher then normal amount of hits, their high PIMs and low point production make them abysmal picks for filler spots.

 

I feel like reducing PIMs negative value would help promote a wider variety of picks and picking someone with low point production but a super high physical aspect a viable choice.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[eaglesfan036 4,598]

agreed make PIMs hurt less

[boubabi 4,725]

Yis

 

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

Most actual fantasy leagues reward PIMs, not sure I agree but it does make for strategic drafting. I do think it was too harsh here though.

[scoop 3,418]

In theory it may lead to more diverse players picked, but you can also look at it and say it highly dissuades anyone from picking players who don't get a lot of hits. Karnage and Reencarnacion would be the only viable top-tier forwards. No one would take a McJustice, Koponen, or Molholt over either of those two. I actually think how it is now makes people think more about their decision, rather than just picking players who get a ton of hits. It's definitely not perfect, though, and the scoring for hits and PIMs is definitely something I was always concerned with when I was running it.

 

At least, I don't think entirely getting rid of PIMs and leaving hits at their current value is wise. Perhaps making PIMs worth less (as in a smaller negative value) or disregarding them and making hits worth less would work. I think a change would be fine, of course. I never considered it something that necessarily needed to change, because everyone is playing under the same rules, but some alteration could definitely be for the better

[Phil 5,119]

Because it's very hard to be a heavy hitter without accruing lots of PIMs, I think a very slight alteration could be beneficial to the VFHL. I don't think, however that someone who gets 200 hits with 200 PIMS should be getting many more fantasy points than someone who gets 100 hits but only 50 PIMS.  Perhaps look into a ratio?

 

Or do what I dream about: look at the ratio between HITS and HITS TAKEN and do the hitting points based off that.

[der meister 3,183]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

Or do what I dream about: look at the ratio between HITS and HITS TAKEN and do the hitting points based off that.

 

[Victor 10,919]

TIL: Phil dreams about taking hits.

 

9 hours ago, Streetlight said:

In theory it may lead to more diverse players picked, but you can also look at it and say it highly dissuades anyone from picking players who don't get a lot of hits. Karnage and Reencarnacion would be the only viable top-tier forwards. No one would take a McJustice, Koponen, or Molholt over either of those two. I actually think how it is now makes people think more about their decision, rather than just picking players who get a ton of hits. It's definitely not perfect, though, and the scoring for hits and PIMs is definitely something I was always concerned with when I was running it.

 

At least, I don't think entirely getting rid of PIMs and leaving hits at their current value is wise. Perhaps making PIMs worth less (as in a smaller negative value) or disregarding them and making hits worth less would work. I think a change would be fine, of course. I never considered it something that necessarily needed to change, because everyone is playing under the same rules, but some alteration could definitely be for the better

This was the logic behind it when it was first being set up and I wouldn't change it.

[Jala 922]

10 hours ago, Streetlight said:

In theory it may lead to more diverse players picked, but you can also look at it and say it highly dissuades anyone from picking players who don't get a lot of hits. Karnage and Reencarnacion would be the only viable top-tier forwards. No one would take a McJustice, Koponen, or Molholt over either of those two. I actually think how it is now makes people think more about their decision, rather than just picking players who get a ton of hits. It's definitely not perfect, though, and the scoring for hits and PIMs is definitely something I was always concerned with when I was running it.

 

At least, I don't think entirely getting rid of PIMs and leaving hits at their current value is wise. Perhaps making PIMs worth less (as in a smaller negative value) or disregarding them and making hits worth less would work. I think a change would be fine, of course. I never considered it something that necessarily needed to change, because everyone is playing under the same rules, but some alteration could definitely be for the better

Maybe I was unclear in the OP, but I wasn't in favour of removing it completely, but maybe moving to it -.5 per PIM to -.3, or something like that. Reduce the impact it has, but make it still have an impact. Karnage and Reencarnacion were drafted a lot and even without a change Koponen and McJustice were few and far between, I think 3 people picked Koponen and 2 picked McJustice. 

 

@everyone

 

A big underlying issue is that there are middle of the pack offensive players who put up a lot of hits, but are bad choices because PIMs reduce their fantasy score so much. Koponen early in the season was a prime example of this, where he was putting up OK scoring numbers and below average hitting/shot blocks, but had a very bad fantasy score because of his high PIMs. There were also other players who would be better choices if they didn't have as many fan points taken away from PIMs. I just want to reach a middle ground where more picks can be viable, the top picks will always be top picks for good reason. The filler picks are where I want to see more options.