My thoughts on the E as Recruitment, M GM and a Semi New Player

[JardyB10 4,839]

Just now, Molholt said:

 

I'm stubborn enough to be mad about 36 games too  

Then good riddance with you! Shoo shoo shoo

[Molholt 2,185]

2 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

Then good riddance with you! Shoo shoo shoo

 

I mean, that was already established... but since you insist I'll blame you! 

[Beketov 8,792]

1 hour ago, Molholt said:

Not that I'm really a top member or anything here, but with the addition of the VHLE I have no intention of recreating when Tretiak is retired.

 

@JardyB10 and @Beketov hit on why in their defense of the system - the additional year is a good addition if it's accessible to all. The problem is that it's the "solution" to the E for some users and just straight up an additional season of VHL pro eligibility for some - meaning that they get an extra year now than they used to, while anyone trapped in the VHLE gets one less now. 

 

I don't max earn on every opportunity here now, and it's not like one member is gonna be missed either, but I'm firmly in the category of wanting to be on equal pro level footing with everyone else because I do get nerdy about things like career stats, records, historical data, etc. - and I'm not too keen to be in the VHL when I'll always have one less season of max eligibility than others. 

 

If I were still in the category of people who could get that extra season of pro eligibility, I might feel different, but that doesn't make it "right" or "good" either for most of the members, especially since the provided number is something like 95% of members will feel that way - that they have an unattainable portion of their career that the "elite" or as Jardy called them, meganerds, get to have.

Arguably the addition of season 9 opens it up for having more ways to potentially earn it. For example I know @Quik always pushed for having it be purchasable. I’m not guaranteeing that would happen or what it would look like but the framework now exists if we wanted to make it more accessible or if we wanted to make the line to get it easier.

 

I get the argument though. If you are truly one who can’t stand the idea of someone having more time than you (which we are planning to factor GP into decisions like HoF by the way) it would be problematic to know that there are 1-2 people per draft class that have more than you. Mind you, you come in at a higher TPE threshold and don’t get hit by regression as hard so it could very well balance out but we don’t have data on that yet.

[nurx 914]

I thought I would insert my little point of view. The VHLE absolutely is killing us. Any player that max earns will not spend more than 1 year in the VHLM which is an important thing to note because that is what causes teams to only compete for 1 or 2 seasons. If maybe you raised the TPE max in the VHLM to 300? You could make it so players have more time to spend in the VHLM. You would need to increase the teams in the VHLM, but in reality the best way to fix the issues wiht theV VHLM is to just make it so teams can rely on players for more then one season. @Shindigs joined us at the start of this season through waivers and he likely will not be drafted into the VHLM and I also was not drafted into the VHLM. I think it is super important to improve the VHLM since that is where new players see the league and the first step to improving the league is giving the VHLM GMs players that they can rely on for more than one season. 

[Horcrux 322]

46 minutes ago, nurx said:

I thought I would insert my little point of view. The VHLE absolutely is killing us. Any player that max earns will not spend more than 1 year in the VHLM which is an important thing to note because that is what causes teams to only compete for 1 or 2 seasons. If maybe you raised the TPE max in the VHLM to 300? You could make it so players have more time to spend in the VHLM. You would need to increase the teams in the VHLM, but in reality the best way to fix the issues wiht theV VHLM is to just make it so teams can rely on players for more then one season. @Shindigs joined us at the start of this season through waivers and he likely will not be drafted into the VHLM and I also was not drafted into the VHLM. I think it is super important to improve the VHLM since that is where new players see the league and the first step to improving the league is giving the VHLM GMs players that they can rely on for more than one season. 

but the VHLM is about development, teaching newer players what to do get them familiar with the site and system. not winning cups or records sooo

Edited December 7, 2021 by Horcrux

[Spartan 4,150]

18 hours ago, Molholt said:

 

Yeah, which I don't believe is enough on it's own to bypass the VHLE (based on the last time I saw someone do a breakdown of it). I don't do any of the extra opportunities/uncapped stuff. 

 

If strictly getting 12/week is enough to bypass the VHLE, then it's both acceptable and also mostly useless at the same time  I don't think that is the case without any extra opportunities/purchases.

I don't get your argument that hitting the VHLE is unattainable for everyone when you're making a decision not to put in the same effort others are. I can agree that it's a bit behind a paywall under its current structure, but choosing not to participate in uncapped tpe opportunities is a choice you have made. It is accessible to everyone, and many folks will get tpe from them. Some games even guarantee you at least one, such as playoff brackets and VHFL. You're not on unequal ground as others, you're simply choosing not to take advantage of opportunities available to you. If you're only claiming 12 a week, you're not even pressing the practice facility button lol.

[Spaz 297]

16 hours ago, nurx said:

I thought I would insert my little point of view. The VHLE absolutely is killing us. Any player that max earns will not spend more than 1 year in the VHLM which is an important thing to note because that is what causes teams to only compete for 1 or 2 seasons. If maybe you raised the TPE max in the VHLM to 300? You could make it so players have more time to spend in the VHLM. You would need to increase the teams in the VHLM, but in reality the best way to fix the issues wiht theV VHLM is to just make it so teams can rely on players for more then one season. @Shindigs joined us at the start of this season through waivers and he likely will not be drafted into the VHLM and I also was not drafted into the VHLM. I think it is super important to improve the VHLM since that is where new players see the league and the first step to improving the league is giving the VHLM GMs players that they can rely on for more than one season. 

The VHLM was never meant for teams to rely on players for more then one or two seasons though, it's not for Max earners to stick around, it's about bringing in the recruits and getting them ready but also not overwhelming them with 300+ tpe players that would end up ruining the experience on its own. 

[Molholt 2,185]

23 hours ago, Spartan said:

I don't get your argument that hitting the VHLE is unattainable for everyone when you're making a decision not to put in the same effort others are. I can agree that it's a bit behind a paywall under its current structure, but choosing not to participate in uncapped tpe opportunities is a choice you have made. It is accessible to everyone, and many folks will get tpe from them. Some games even guarantee you at least one, such as playoff brackets and VHFL. You're not on unequal ground as others, you're simply choosing not to take advantage of opportunities available to you. If you're only claiming 12 a week, you're not even pressing the practice facility button lol.

 

I do practice facility, I just didn't list it. I just mean that those opportunities are also a bit random, they aren't consistent - but I also believe the data has shown that you have to donate anyway, no?

 

Regardless, the fact of the matter is I "max" earn here from a weekly standpoint and I'd be nowhere close to bypassing the VHLE, and thus I'd be a season behind, career-wise, than anyone who was able to - and a majority of the users fall into that category as well. I don't like a structure that presents that as the primary way the league functions. If your standard, 12 per week, some extra opportunities, no donation members could bypass the VHLE and only those that slipped on some things couldn't, then that'd be different.

[Beketov 8,792]

6 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I do practice facility, I just didn't list it. I just mean that those opportunities are also a bit random, they aren't consistent - but I also believe the data has shown that you have to donate anyway, no?

 

Regardless, the fact of the matter is I "max" earn here from a weekly standpoint and I'd be nowhere close to bypassing the VHLE, and thus I'd be a season behind, career-wise, than anyone who was able to - and a majority of the users fall into that category as well. I don't like a structure that presents that as the primary way the league functions. If your standard, 12 per week, some extra opportunities, no donation members could bypass the VHLE and only those that slipped on some things couldn't, then that'd be different.

I feel like it’s a balancing act to hit and obviously it’s adjustable. At the moment we designed it to be difficult intentionally but perhaps we pushed that too far, if so we can adjust it to be a bit easier. It’s a tough balance to strike though because obviously if you make it too easy then it becomes that everyone does it and we have solved 0 problems. It’s basically all just TPE though so it’s very adjustable.

[Spartan 4,150]

9 minutes ago, Molholt said:

 

I do practice facility, I just didn't list it. I just mean that those opportunities are also a bit random, they aren't consistent - but I also believe the data has shown that you have to donate anyway, no?

 

Regardless, the fact of the matter is I "max" earn here from a weekly standpoint and I'd be nowhere close to bypassing the VHLE, and thus I'd be a season behind, career-wise, than anyone who was able to - and a majority of the users fall into that category as well. I don't like a structure that presents that as the primary way the league functions. If your standard, 12 per week, some extra opportunities, no donation members could bypass the VHLE and only those that slipped on some things couldn't, then that'd be different.

 

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

I feel like it’s a balancing act to hit and obviously it’s adjustable. At the moment we designed it to be difficult intentionally but perhaps we pushed that too far, if so we can adjust it to be a bit easier. It’s a tough balance to strike though because obviously if you make it too easy then it becomes that everyone does it and we have solved 0 problems. It’s basically all just TPE though so it’s very adjustable.

Yeah I fully agree that right now, skipping the E is locked away behind a paywall. However, I don't think the solution is to just lower the hard cap, but rather to allow for more flexibility in call-ups. Some teams ran out of bodies to sign in FA because there weren't enough players at or above 350 TPA, while there were prospects slightly under 350 that could have been called up. 

 

If GM's continued to have the option to call up prospects as they choose, every team in theory would have full rosters. Prospects who don't want to simmer in the E, while also being at a TPE/TPA level that their VHL GM's are comfortable with to roster, could then get called up without the paywall barrier. It'd add another layer to draft scouting and roster planning for VHL GM's to handle, to understand the desires of their prospects and to agree on a direction before drafting them.

 

More of these career options should be mutually agreed on between VHL GM's and their prospects instead of set by the league as a hard cap.

[UnknownMinion 726]

I would just like to say I love the E for more then one reason 

the first being the VHL wasn’t exciting knowing that I would sit on a bottom line and get like no points because I only had 250 TPE of the E wasn’t created I would of had less fun personal as my player would be doing anything( I’m putting gming and agming aside here as that nore what I focus on now) Second so many new comers won’t know a life before the E and many will just lose interest over time it could but that the reason we lose so many player is not because they just want to jump to the bigs but because they just lost interest over time, a normal new coming for all the time I’ve been here (and I did this as well) will only caning PF and Welfare at first, those who join the discord and talk on the forum will then start doing press conference and small point task, then start doing media spots, a lot of player will disappear with time and big ads that bring in alot with have some stay but uselly most will leave, as gms we should help push them to stay but we can’t control anybody, everyone needs to stop using the E as a problem point in the league when I was agming their I bought two players who stop updating back and a third this season who was in the E who chose to recreate not because they hated the E but because they were gone so long from the league that they went IA, so with that in mind the E also can help bring players back the true problem is that not everyone gets their mind set into the league, not they have to wait so long for the bigs as the M and E can be just as exciting 

this has been a message from minion that I probably could claim as a .com tbh