The Truth about being a new player in the VHLM

[Achilles 91]

Most of you that are reading this are 2 things. 1, you probably do not like me much. I really could care less. and 2, You are mainly E and VHL players. You could care less about the VHLM.

Well, let me remind you as a new player the VHLM is all you know.

Let me repeat that. AS A NEW PLAYER THE VHLM IS ALL YOU KNOW. The first experience you have in this league. 

I care a lot about this community and the sim league and one thing I know that is to truly run something successful with getting more and more new players is improving the new player experience.

As a first gen player, I noticed a huge issue. So in the vhlm, you can play most of the season with one team and all the recreated can randomly all just join to one, even your conference rivals, and dominate the rest of the year and playoffs.

Everyone is guilty of this. Except me of course being new  but something has to change. Most people will say "But there is a salary cap" .... of course there is.

The issue with the VHLM is that most teams do not even come close to it. Salary is not a big deal in the VHLM so teams can get away with this loophole.

I have talked to some players who agree with me that something needs to change.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Achilles

[Nykonax 1,564]

17 minutes ago, Achilles said:

I have talked to some players who agree with me that something needs to change.

i agree we should ban @badcolethetitan and @Kylrad by association

[Achilles 91]

2 minutes ago, Nykonax said:

i agree we should ban @badcolethetitan and @Kylrad by association

um no. no banning. just rule change. maybe some kind of waiver order.

[Python_Starbuzz 14]

54 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Most of you that are reading this are 2 things. 1, you probably do not like me much. I really could care less. and 2, You are mainly E and VHL players. You could care less about the VHLM.

Well, let me remind you as a new player the VHLM is all you know.

Let me repeat that. AS A NEW PLAYER THE VHLM IS ALL YOU KNOW. The first experience you have in this league. 

I care a lot about this community and the sim league and one thing I know that is to truly run something successful with getting more and more new players is improving the new player experience.

As a first gen player, I noticed a huge issue. So in the vhlm, you can play most of the season with one team and all the recreated can randomly all just join to one, even your conference rivals, and dominate the rest of the year and playoffs.

Everyone is guilty of this. Except me of course being new  but something has to change. Most people will say "But there is a salary cap" .... of course there is.

The issue with the VHLM is that most teams do not even come close to it. Salary is not a big deal in the VHLM so teams can get away with this loophole.

I have talked to some players who agree with me that something needs to change.

 

Couldn't agree more with this!

[Triller 1,670]

44 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Most of you that are reading this are 2 things. 1, you probably do not like me much. I really could care less. and 2, You are mainly E and VHL players. You could care less about the VHLM.

Well, let me remind you as a new player the VHLM is all you know.

Let me repeat that. AS A NEW PLAYER THE VHLM IS ALL YOU KNOW. The first experience you have in this league. 

I care a lot about this community and the sim league and one thing I know that is to truly run something successful with getting more and more new players is improving the new player experience.

As a first gen player, I noticed a huge issue. So in the vhlm, you can play most of the season with one team and all the recreated can randomly all just join to one, even your conference rivals, and dominate the rest of the year and playoffs.

Everyone is guilty of this. Except me of course being new  but something has to change. Most people will say "But there is a salary cap" .... of course there is.

The issue with the VHLM is that most teams do not even come close to it. Salary is not a big deal in the VHLM so teams can get away with this loophole.

I have talked to some players who agree with me that something needs to change.

 

I agree with you on most of these things.  As a new player myself, I don't know who you are or why anyone wouldn't like you but if you are assuming as much you must know why and what you have done or said to cause that.

 

As for the VHLM, I agree but in a different way.  I haven't looked into the VHLE much or the VHL as my focus is on the league I am in.  After getting swept by the Mexico City Kings this evening, I was quite aware of the discrepancy between teams and recreates signing together.  I think the problem is in the mindset of those users and their inability to understand that when they do this, they are slowly killing something they enjoy.  Now, it doesn't bother me much cause they are just ruining the experience for themselves and I can ignore the impact on my team.  I would like to win a championship in the VHLM but that isn't the main goal and I wouldn't want to win it with a bunch of recreates who planned it out anyways.  Boring.  I use the VHLM to learn how this site works and to get accustomed to the sims and meet a few people while developing my player.  There are certainly some things that could be improved, they just need to be discussed appropriately, but the biggest thing is making those recreate users understand why what they are doing is an issue and how it could drive away new players.

[Berocka 2,263]

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

I really could care less

You mean you couldn't care less. If you could care less means you already care about it.

 

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

recreated can randomly all just join to one, even your conference rivals, and dominate the rest of the year and playoffs.

If all the recreates are joining one team then it should be looked at how that GM went with waiver signings before tdl.

 

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

Everyone is guilty of this

This is a lie. When I join a team I look for the team with the least amount of players and ask for the least amount of ice time.

 

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

But there is a salary cap

But there is not a salary cap in the vhlm. There is a player limit. Everyone is on the same salary in the vhlm.

 

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

 

I have talked to some players who agree with me that something needs to change.

Okay so if you are vhlm commission come the end of the season what is your approach to changing this?

[badcolethetitan 921]

1 hour ago, Nykonax said:

i agree we should ban @badcolethetitan and @Kylrad by association

 

dammit nyko u got me

[Spartan 4,410]

I'm all for working to solve problems if they are proven to be problems. I'm not sold that the trade deadline recreates are one in this case, and I'll elaborate on that. But don't let this seem like I don't care about the concern, I just want to make sure that we're identifying issues properly.

 

27 minutes ago, Triller said:

After getting swept by the Mexico City Kings this evening, I was quite aware of the discrepancy between teams and recreates signing together.

I presume this is referring to the idea that Mexico City is considered "too strong" because of the recreates planning to join the team. First of all, I am sorry that you guys got swept. That itself is never a good feeling at all and I get the frustration that comes from it. Looking at Mexico City's roster, I spot 6 S87 recreates, which is a fairly large number to all be on one team. Looking at the index, at Mexico City's scoring, this is how much each recreate scored:

 

(Formatted at Goals - Assists - Points)

Reinhard von Konmeig - (1-2-3)
George Costanza - (1-1-2)

Oreo McFleury - (2-0-2)

Randy Bobandy - (0-2-2)

Reese McFleury - (0-1-1)

Skor McFleury - (0-0-0)

 

So that's a total of 4 goals, 6 assists and 10 points between 6 players. Mexico City as a whole team had 15 goals, 29 assists and 44 points. The 6 recreates out of the 16 skaters on the team had 22.72% of the points. It's a decent chunk but I don't think it's the reason you guys lost.

 

I'll admit I was shocked when I looked at Saskatoon's points for a similar point production breakdown to see that as a team, you guys had 3 goals, 6 assists and 9 points. Then I realized that Mexico City's goalie stood on his head and put up a 0.969 SV% with a GAA of 0.75. That is genuinely MVP level performance. Mexico City didn't need to dunk on you guys point-wise, and they didn't even need the recreates to do so. The goalie just shut you guys out while SSK's goalie did not fare nearly as well with a 0.887 SV%. and 3.75 GAA.

 

My initial thoughts after just looking at the rosters and the stats from this series is that it was just one team's goalie playing lights out while the other ones didn't play well at all. Add in the fact that two players in the regular season top 10 for goals, The Mediocre One and Nikolas Kauppi (both first-gens) combined for 7 goals and 13 points. Those two alone produced more than the entire SSK roster. I get that seeing a team fill up with recreates is frustrating but the stat sheet shows their impact was fairly low. The series was just decided by goaltending in my opinion. 

 

Feel free to ask questions or point out anything I may have missed. TDL recreate signing has been a hot topic issue in the M for a long time, even before I was an M GM in the early S70's so this isn't new. It's just never gone to the point where rules to restrict their signings are needed.

[Achilles 91]

4 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I'm all for working to solve problems if they are proven to be problems. I'm not sold that the trade deadline recreates are one in this case, and I'll elaborate on that. But don't let this seem like I don't care about the concern, I just want to make sure that we're identifying issues properly.

 

I presume this is referring to the idea that Mexico City is considered "too strong" because of the recreates planning to join the team. First of all, I am sorry that you guys got swept. That itself is never a good feeling at all and I get the frustration that comes from it. Looking at Mexico City's roster, I spot 6 S87 recreates, which is a fairly large number to all be on one team. Looking at the index, at Mexico City's scoring, this is how much each recreate scored:

 

(Formatted at Goals - Assists - Points)

Reinhard von Konmeig - (1-2-3)
George Costanza - (1-1-2)

Oreo McFleury - (2-0-2)

Randy Bobandy - (0-2-2)

Reese McFleury - (0-1-1)

Skor McFleury - (0-0-0)

 

So that's a total of 4 goals, 6 assists and 10 points between 6 players. Mexico City as a whole team had 15 goals, 29 assists and 44 points. The 6 recreates out of the 16 skaters on the team had 22.72% of the points. It's a decent chunk but I don't think it's the reason you guys lost.

 

I'll admit I was shocked when I looked at Saskatoon's points for a similar point production breakdown to see that as a team, you guys had 3 goals, 6 assists and 9 points. Then I realized that Mexico City's goalie stood on his head and put up a 0.969 SV% with a GAA of 0.75. That is genuinely MVP level performance. Mexico City didn't need to dunk on you guys point-wise, and they didn't even need the recreates to do so. The goalie just shut you guys out while SSK's goalie did not fare nearly as well with a 0.887 SV%. and 3.75 GAA.

 

My initial thoughts after just looking at the rosters and the stats from this series is that it was just one team's goalie playing lights out while the other ones didn't play well at all. Add in the fact that two players in the regular season top 10 for goals, The Mediocre One and Nikolas Kauppi (both first-gens) combined for 7 goals and 13 points. Those two alone produced more than the entire SSK roster. I get that seeing a team fill up with recreates is frustrating but the stat sheet shows their impact was fairly low. The series was just decided by goaltending in my opinion. 

 

Feel free to ask questions or point out anything I may have missed. TDL recreate signing has been a hot topic issue in the M for a long time, even before I was an M GM in the early S70's so this isn't new. It's just never gone to the point where rules to restrict their signings are needed.

Hm

 Do you have a character that was against Mexico? Or more importantly. Were you a gm on the other team? I doubt it. This is a massive problem regardless what u think of it. I can just retire my guy and make anew one and join an elite team? Fair

[Nykonax 1,564]

44 minutes ago, Triller said:

As for the VHLM, I agree but in a different way.  I haven't looked into the VHLE much or the VHL as my focus is on the league I am in.  After getting swept by the Mexico City Kings this evening, I was quite aware of the discrepancy between teams and recreates signing together.  I think the problem is in the mindset of those users and their inability to understand that when they do this, they are slowly killing something they enjoy.  Now, it doesn't bother me much cause they are just ruining the experience for themselves and I can ignore the impact on my team.  I would like to win a championship in the VHLM but that isn't the main goal and I wouldn't want to win it with a bunch of recreates who planned it out anyways.  Boring.  I use the VHLM to learn how this site works and to get accustomed to the sims and meet a few people while developing my player.  There are certainly some things that could be improved, they just need to be discussed appropriately, but the biggest thing is making those recreate users understand why what they are doing is an issue and how it could drive away new players.

I don't think recreates do it from the perspective of like needing to win a championship. Once you're out of the VHLM, and especially once you're on your second+ player, you kind of stop caring about the VHLM as much, it's just a place you go for a season and then you're onto the VHL/E where you start actually caring about performance. I couldn't tell you a single cup winner in the VHLM in any season, and I don't think many people could. Instead, I think the primary reason recreates join certain teams or not is because of friendships, as well as wanting to see their players play. The best way to do that is to join the same team, and join a team that has a solid chance at making a playoff run. You wouldn't want to join a team that's not going to make playoffs or will be out in the first round because then you don't get to see your player play, which is the primary reason we're here. It just ends up that there's usually only one or two teams that fit the criteria of a) having room for a bunch of signings, and b) being able to make a somewhat good playoff run.

 

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

Reinhard von Konmeig - (1-2-3)

YEAH KYLRAD WOOOO

[Achilles 91]

56 minutes ago, Triller said:

I agree with you on most of these things.  As a new player myself, I don't know who you are or why anyone wouldn't like you but if you are assuming as much you must know why and what you have done or said to cause that.

 

As for the VHLM, I agree but in a different way.  I haven't looked into the VHLE much or the VHL as my focus is on the league I am in.  After getting swept by the Mexico City Kings this evening, I was quite aware of the discrepancy between teams and recreates signing together.  I think the problem is in the mindset of those users and their inability to understand that when they do this, they are slowly killing something they enjoy.  Now, it doesn't bother me much cause they are just ruining the experience for themselves and I can ignore the impact on my team.  I would like to win a championship in the VHLM but that isn't the main goal and I wouldn't want to win it with a bunch of recreates who planned it out anyways.  Boring.  I use the VHLM to learn how this site works and to get accustomed to the sims and meet a few people while developing my player.  There are certainly some things that could be improved, they just need to be discussed appropriately, but the biggest thing is making those recreate users understand why what they are doing is an issue and how it could drive away new players.

Can i interview you for my 6 tpe?

[Achilles 91]

1 minute ago, Nykonax said:

I don't think recreates do it from the perspective of like needing to win a championship. Once you're out of the VHLM, and especially once you're on your second+ player, you kind of stop caring about the VHLM as much, it's just a place you go for a season and then you're onto the VHL/E where you start actually caring about performance. I couldn't tell you a single cup winner in the VHLM in any season, and I don't think many people could. Instead, I think the primary reason recreates join certain teams or not is because of friendships, as well as wanting to see their players play. The best way to do that is to join the same team, and join a team that has a solid chance at making a playoff run. You wouldn't want to join a team that's not going to make playoffs or will be out in the first round because then you don't get to see your player play, which is the primary reason we're here. It just ends up that there's usually only one or two teams that fit the criteria of a) having room for a bunch of signings, and b) being able to make a somewhat good playoff run.

 

YEAH KYLRAD WOOOO

But the vhlm is important to new players.

[Nykonax 1,564]

9 minutes ago, Achilles said:

But the vhlm is important to new players.

Yes, I forgot to include that in my original post. It is important for new people and is an introduction to the league, and it's important they have a good experience. But it's also important for recreates, they just have different priorities, like wanting to just spend the time there with their friends and see their brand new player play. Are recreates joining one team ruining the league and thus the experience for new players? No, they have like 70 TPE and scored 3 goals combined. Like Spartan said, Saskatoon lost to goalies, not recreates. If the recreates don't score maybe they get lucky and lose in 5. However, if some rule stopping recreates from joining the same team was implemented, would that ruin the experience for the recreates? Yeah probably.

[Achilles 91]

1 minute ago, Nykonax said:

Yes, I forgot to include that in my original post. It is important for new people and is an introduction to the league, and it's important they have a good experience. But it's also important for recreates, they just have different priorities, like wanting to just spend the time there with their friends and see their brand new player play. Are recreates joining one team ruining the league and thus the experience for new players? No, they have like 70 TPE and scored 3 goals combined. Like Spartan said, Saskatoon lost to goalies, not recreates. If the recreates don't score maybe they get lucky and lose in 5. However, if some rule stopping recreates from joining the same team was implemented, would that ruin the experience for the recreates? Yeah probably.

. Are recreates joining one team ruining the league and thus the experience for new players? Yes

[Triller 1,670]

33 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I'm all for working to solve problems if they are proven to be problems. I'm not sold that the trade deadline recreates are one in this case, and I'll elaborate on that. But don't let this seem like I don't care about the concern, I just want to make sure that we're identifying issues properly.

 

I presume this is referring to the idea that Mexico City is considered "too strong" because of the recreates planning to join the team. First of all, I am sorry that you guys got swept. That itself is never a good feeling at all and I get the frustration that comes from it. Looking at Mexico City's roster, I spot 6 S87 recreates, which is a fairly large number to all be on one team. Looking at the index, at Mexico City's scoring, this is how much each recreate scored:

 

(Formatted at Goals - Assists - Points)

Reinhard von Konmeig - (1-2-3)
George Costanza - (1-1-2)

Oreo McFleury - (2-0-2)

Randy Bobandy - (0-2-2)

Reese McFleury - (0-1-1)

Skor McFleury - (0-0-0)

 

So that's a total of 4 goals, 6 assists and 10 points between 6 players. Mexico City as a whole team had 15 goals, 29 assists and 44 points. The 6 recreates out of the 16 skaters on the team had 22.72% of the points. It's a decent chunk but I don't think it's the reason you guys lost.

 

I'll admit I was shocked when I looked at Saskatoon's points for a similar point production breakdown to see that as a team, you guys had 3 goals, 6 assists and 9 points. Then I realized that Mexico City's goalie stood on his head and put up a 0.969 SV% with a GAA of 0.75. That is genuinely MVP level performance. Mexico City didn't need to dunk on you guys point-wise, and they didn't even need the recreates to do so. The goalie just shut you guys out while SSK's goalie did not fare nearly as well with a 0.887 SV%. and 3.75 GAA.

 

My initial thoughts after just looking at the rosters and the stats from this series is that it was just one team's goalie playing lights out while the other ones didn't play well at all. Add in the fact that two players in the regular season top 10 for goals, The Mediocre One and Nikolas Kauppi (both first-gens) combined for 7 goals and 13 points. Those two alone produced more than the entire SSK roster. I get that seeing a team fill up with recreates is frustrating but the stat sheet shows their impact was fairly low. The series was just decided by goaltending in my opinion. 

 

Feel free to ask questions or point out anything I may have missed. TDL recreate signing has been a hot topic issue in the M for a long time, even before I was an M GM in the early S70's so this isn't new. It's just never gone to the point where rules to restrict their signings are needed.

This is all well and good stat wise.  I am not sure how the recreates stacked up against the bot players on our team but from a new user stand point, the less bots the better it seems, so when a large group all choose a team together and it isn't yours, all it said to me as a new player was that it isn't about what you do with your player or how you interact in the forums, it is about who you know.  As a new user, that could be a bit discouraging.  All the stats in the world won't change the opt ics or interpretation that a new user might have when seeing long time users team up.  If recruitment and retention is the goal of all this then the opt ics are what matter, not the stats.

 

Again, this doesn't bother me.  I am here to experience what a sim league is like and to have some fun but I wanted to share what it looked like from my perspective as it may help improve things for others.

 

Edited cause I can't say "Opt ics"?

Edited October 16, 2022 by Triller

[Achilles 91]

3 minutes ago, Triller said:

This is all well and good stat wise.  I am not sure how the recreates stacked up against the bot players on our team but from a new user stand point, the less bots the better it seems, so when a large group all choose a team together and it isn't yours, all it said to me as a new player was that it isn't about what you do with your player or how you interact in the forums, it is about who you know.  As a new user, that could be a bit discouraging.  All the stats in the world won't change the rainbow flavoured unicorns or interpretation that a new user might have when seeing long time users team up.  If recruitment and retention is the goal of all this then the rainbow flavoured unicorns are what matter, not the stats.

 

Again, this doesn't bother me.  I am here to experience what a sim league is like and to have some fun but I wanted to share what it looked like from my perspective as it may help improve things for others.

Agreed. There is a click happening. Even with the mods. I noticed this.

[Achilles 91]

Just now, Achilles said:

Agreed. There is a click happening. Even with the mods. I noticed this.

As a new player no matter what we do we will lose.  The recruites are against us

[Triller 1,670]

2 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Agreed. There is a click happening. Even with the mods. I noticed this.

To be clear, I am not about conspiracies.  Run the league how you want to run the league and if I eventually stop enjoying what I am a part of here, I will leave.

 

I will remain respectful and continue to make friends and improve my player.  I can be on every losing team from here on out and I would be fine with it as long as I am having a good time.

[Spartan 4,410]

14 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Hm

 Do you have a character that was against Mexico? Or more importantly. Were you a gm on the other team? I doubt it. This is a massive problem regardless what u think of it.

As I said, I understand being frustrated for losing. My history in this league should be enough of a resume, losing 4 VHL finals in a row. I don't think anyone needs to explain bitterness to me. What I'm not going to do, is rush into trying to ban something just because people are naturally upset that the team with recreates won.

 

17 minutes ago, Achilles said:

I can just retire my guy and make anew one and join an elite team? Fair

I mean, if you retire your player just to try and pick a different team that you hope will win a championship in the VHLM, I feel like your priorities are a bit misguided. You lose TPE, your draft class positioning, your first-gen perks of extra uncapped TPE, and tank your draft stock in the VHL/E. If we do start to see weird patterns like this to abuse the system, we'll likely implement rules to prevent it.

 

Just also keep in mind that those users were at the end of their careers in the VHL, their time was up. Their old players would get auto-retired at the end of this season. Instead they retire early and join the brand new draft class, it's what happens every off-season. They can only go to the teams that offer them slots, and this is also the only time in their careers that they can try and coordinate who they play with. For example in S80 when I retired my old player and created Nico Pearce, I coordinated with McWolf and we both joined Halifax. We picked Halifax just because they were locked into a playoff spot and had spots for us to play together. They were nowhere near cup favorites and we didn't go far, but we got the most minutes there and had the chance to play extra games after the regular season, that's basically all that went into our decision.

 

2 minutes ago, Triller said:

This is all well and good stat wise.  I am not sure how the recreates stacked up against the bot players on our team but from a new user stand point, the less bots the better it seems, so when a large group all choose a team together and it isn't yours, all it said to me as a new player was that it isn't about what you do with your player or how you interact in the forums, it is about who you know. 

SSK's bot defenseman went -3, 6 human players went -3 or worse. I agree that you want to avoid playing bots on a roster but the bot doesn't seem to be the issue here either.. Also I only saw three players, the McFleury's, coordinate to play together. Saskatoon didn't even offer on the third defenseman Reinhard von Konming or the forward George Constanza. However, I know Kylrad and Nyko are friends and Nyko is an advisor for Mexico City. So there was some sway there for sure, but all 6 recreates certainly didn't coordinate with each other. I'd say that the three McFleury's chose to play with each other and RvK joined Mexico City because of the connection with management. If Saskatoon didn't even offer, they didn't get robbed of those players.

 

3 minutes ago, Achilles said:

As a new player no matter what we do we will lose.  The recruites are against us

You're saying that you don't care about what I'm explaining and then say we're against you. How is this helping anyone? I can't just call the current recreate system a problem because a couple people have said "I don't like that the team won" while ignoring the explanations being given of how the recreates didn't seem to sway the outcome. 

[Spartan 4,410]

Anyways I'm going to bed, see you after the Steelers lose tomorrow  

[Beketov 9,033]

41 minutes ago, Nykonax said:

I don't think recreates do it from the perspective of like needing to win a championship.

Gotta set up that triple gold club early my man!

[Nykonax 1,564]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

Gotta set up that triple gold club early my man!

quadruple now, Bek hates the E confirmed.

[Beketov 9,033]

22 minutes ago, Triller said:

Edited cause I can't say "Opt ics"?

That’s an old joke that probably doesn’t need to be a filter anymore haha. Don’t worry about it.

[Beketov 9,033]

Just now, Nykonax said:

quadruple now, Bek hates the E confirmed.

Quintuple now, Nyko hates the WJC confirmed.

[Achilles 91]

5 minutes ago, Spartan said:

As I said, I understand being frustrated for losing. My history in this league should be enough of a resume, losing 4 VHL finals in a row. I don't think anyone needs to explain bitterness to me. What I'm not going to do, is rush into trying to ban something just because people are naturally upset that the team with recreates won.

 

I mean, if you retire your player just to try and pick a different team that you hope will win a championship in the VHLM, I feel like your priorities are a bit misguided. You lose TPE, your draft class positioning, your first-gen perks of extra uncapped TPE, and tank your draft stock in the VHL/E. If we do start to see weird patterns like this to abuse the system, we'll likely implement rules to prevent it.

 

Just also keep in mind that those users were at the end of their careers in the VHL, their time was up. Their old players would get auto-retired at the end of this season. Instead they retire early and join the brand new draft class, it's what happens every off-season. They can only go to the teams that offer them slots, and this is also the only time in their careers that they can try and coordinate who they play with. For example in S80 when I retired my old player and created Nico Pearce, I coordinated with McWolf and we both joined Halifax. We picked Halifax just because they were locked into a playoff spot and had spots for us to play together. They were nowhere near cup favorites and we didn't go far, but we got the most minutes there and had the chance to play extra games after the regular season, that's basically all that went into our decision.

 

SSK's bot defenseman went -3, 6 human players went -3 or worse. I agree that you want to avoid playing bots on a roster but the bot doesn't seem to be the issue here either.. Also I only saw three players, the McFleury's, coordinate to play together. Saskatoon didn't even offer on the third defenseman Reinhard von Konming or the forward George Constanza. However, I know Kylrad and Nyko are friends and Nyko is an advisor for Mexico City. So there was some sway there for sure, but all 6 recreates certainly didn't coordinate with each other. I'd say that the three McFleury's chose to play with each other and RvK joined Mexico City because of the connection with management. If Saskatoon didn't even offer, they didn't get robbed of those players.

 

You're saying that you don't care about what I'm explaining and then say we're against you. How is this helping anyone? I can't just call the current recreate system a problem because a couple people have said "I don't like that the team won" while ignoring the explanations being given of how the recreates didn't seem to sway the outcome. 

I am not mad about losing lol.