Claimed:The Sterling Rant

[Guest]

The Sterling Rant

 

For years a young man named Sterling ruled these boards with his rants about various situations and topics around the league. Since than life has caught up to the once "young" man and he has been packed with work. However, every once and awhile Sterling takes off his hardhat and gives us a rant we all have come to read and react too. Most recently Sterling took on a new endeavor by creating a VHL Blog, which consists of many of the same things before. The legend rants, raves and generally talks about all things VHL or members within it. Some may miss the old Sterling rants, but we think the blog is just a new chapter. Seeing as Sterling is one of the oldest members in this league he tends to give us good insight on the past, present and future of our board. One thing I have always come to respect is that fact he gives us an uncensored version of his take that doesn't hold back from context. Often times people maybe upset with his rants, disagree with them or even closely relate to them, but he tells it like it is. Another member who attempted his version of this to a lesser degree was myself. When the VHLM Mag got up and running about a year ago, I wanted to be linked on the last page with an editorial. I ended up starting one and since the VHLM Mag has since flopped, I sort of laid low, until now.

 

 

In the past the aforementioned Sterling and to an equal level David Knight, have both had media spots dedicated to just giving insight on what they see. As controversial as I am sometimes with the life I've lived and the way I grew up, people often disagree with me. I've always had a tough time here on the boards because I feel I come from a background, which results me to being fair no matter what. If there is a rulebook I often follow it very close to what it says. If the following insults you or you disagree with it, than that is your opinion and I won't downgrade it but I myself may disagree as well.

 

So to start, I find this league still to be about cliques. Gone are the days where I called out Kyle or anyone who seemed to go against what they said to start. That whole saga started when Kyle once said that no one should be part of a clique or group gang posting against a member. I remember it clearly cause I usually listen to tons of podcasts from start to finish. It occurred shortly after that that Kyle himself had a bunch of guys going around that seemed to just load up on comments on one member (at one point being me). The excuse they had was that they "disagree" with me, but they all had to make their feelings known. That story is gone and I'm over it because who cares it's on a message board. The real issue I have is when it comes to awards, voting and basic credentials in general. I find from the start this league seemed to always be a popularity contest when it came to voting. Some may look at that as me being sour because I've only ever won four or five awards in my entire tenure in the VHL. That assumption is actually very far from the truth. Like I said, winning four/five awards would discourage some people and to an extent it has for me. However, I'm still here cause I tend to just roll with the sim and try to create a player. My point though is that it seems a group of people can have a lasting impression on whom to vote for. Possibly it is friends you have on the board, podcast mates or just members you relate too. I'm just tired of people vouching for people, if the sim shows the statistics and people have different views of winners; let them. 

 

In the National Hockey League the voters aren't persuaded by media articles and aren't told by a buddy who they should vote for (trust me I've asked). They look at things themselves and vote accordingly. Maybe it's just me but I've never been big on "hyping someone’s" chances until the last few seasons where I feel it got out of hand. If you want to have your voice heard, why don't you explain what the award should be voted on without examples? Please don't create a VHL Fan article telling me who should win. Create a VHL Fan article explaining the true meaning behind the award in question without examples. Then people can go into the sim and look at the stats they interpret with that information.

 

 

It's always a disappointing thought drained into my mine that I failed to win an award not because my stats weren't up to snuff, but because I didn't know the right people. I think shutting our mouths and letting the award description be known instead of a persons favorite choice is the best way. I've been here a long while and obviously I'm not in it for myself, otherwise I would have long left. My thoughts are something I feel progresses the league. Although it may not be a rant, this is how I see it.

 

[Devise 4,475]

See it is tough for me to see your argument when you don't like using examples. At the end of the day most of the conversations about who should win this or that are usually all very well thought out back and forth discussion with facts and logic as to why people think or argue for a certain person. Hell, lately it rarely has any connection to any click or something like that. An example, when Sterling had replied to me regarding my argument for Tukio as MVP he accused me of being biased towards my friend. I rarely ever talk to Higgins....I can't remember the last time I Skyped with him. Rift and Tukio have a friendly rivalry and the last I chatted with Higgins was related to GM business.

 

A lot of times I think there is this assumption that it is about who you know not what you do based more on the fact that people see themselves or others getting opinions thrown at them and they assume it's a gang up. It isn't, or I should say it rarely is. Most of all the arguments are stats based. I can only speak for myself and my little "group" and say that we constantly differ on thoughts when it comes to awards, Chris and I are obsessive about actually finding numbers and stats when we make predictions or thoughts. Regular listens to the Pajodcast can easily attest to this. 

 

If you had some actual examples, where you knew for sure people were just playing favorites, then sure. But do you think conversations go on behind the scenes where people are like "hey nominate this guy vote that guy?" It rarely is ever like that. Do you honestly think guys like Chris, Noah, myself, Jason, all don't have enough of an ego to just stop and agree with each other? Hell at times the Skype chat can even be a larger debate than the formulated opinions you see posted on the boards after the fact. 

 

Now I'm just speculating but maybe the issue is that when people go crazy into intensive debate like this it changes the perspective of the league, specifically when it comes to not just who wins awards and how people vote but the entire process of what each award means. When you stay silent, when you rely on one perspective and say it is the "way it is" that perspective rarely ever adapts or evolves. There is nothing wrong with saying the award is defined by this, but at the end of the day the people who vote on awards all have very different criteria for different things. Some value defensive stats as more important, some consider MVP to mean different things, some look deeper into stats, some look at overall stats. Some don't give a shit and quickly pick so they can move on with their lives. The fact is it isn't a cut and dry process with the intent to get people hijacked into an award situation. Is it the best process going? No. But that is part of the purpose at least on my groups end of why we get so passionate and debate awards and winners to such a high degree. Because it should be a big deal. It should get as much attention and criticism for all candidates, and the very nature of what the award means. Maybe if we as a league worked more on doing that we could actually properly come up with a standardized definition of these awards, which for the most part we actually don't have now. It wasn't until Victor restructured the Slobo when that award finally actually made sense to most people. Even now we have several awards where it is loosely defined and you have to be in the know of this league to have any idea of what is really going on. 

 

Ultimately I think you are looking to much into the group situation. They exist but they aren't the end all be all. They aren't trying to run or control the league. Most of the people I know who "group up" at any point also enjoy tons of other members in this league outside of their group and generally have a very grounded opinion on the league as a whole. But I'd be interested to hear some actual examples, if this is an actual issue then actual facts to support your argument would go a long way to identifying and fixing it. 

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

devise, you forgot to post your tl;dr part

[Squinty 116]

Tl;dr

Sterling is a raging feggit

[Victor 11,021]

Devise speaks truthful words. Too many though.

[Guest]

Well for one when it comes to the BOG, I noticed some seem to have a different concept of the MVP. The MVP means most valuable to his team. You remove that player and the team would not be in the as positive position they were. For example, when it comes to MVP votes if you removed Wozniak from Calgary do you think they would not make the postseason? Also I think I read in the VHL Fan Chris posted (not sure if this was a Playoff thought or Regular season) that Grigs had 5 GWG…well that award is based on the Regular season, so I don't know where those 5 GWG would come into effect with voting. If that's cleared up I may know what he is saying.

 

I just don't know how people got the whole idea that MVP was best in the league when we have the Outstanding Player award as well. MVP signifies that if he was simply out of the sim for that team, the team would not have been where they are. Which is why when I see people put multiple guys from one team on a ballot, I start to wonder if they know what it means. An example of that, If someone was to submit a ballot with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf on it, how would that make sense? You'd have to decipher who is the best between the two first. Just my opinion. 35 seasons and I have only seen one era where unbiased opinions seemed to be formed.

 

Also, in terms of example of the past, it's hard to show much without anything from the old board. I also tend to not take the award shit to heart, so I never store it away. I simply vote on what the sim presents, seeing as that's the sole thing we should be doing. You brought up "group" which is funny because I could only name 3 people or so I'd associate with each out. It just seems like the opinion of several is the be all end all, and if you disagree you are wrong or will be shot down.

[Devise 4,475]

Well for one when it comes to the BOG, I noticed some seem to have a different concept of the MVP. The MVP means most valuable to his team. You remove that player and the team would not be in the as positive position they were. For example, when it comes to MVP votes if you removed Wozniak from Calgary do you think they would not make the postseason? Also I think I read in the VHL Fan Chris posted (not sure if this was a Playoff thought or Regular season) that Grigs had 5 GWG…well that award is based on the Regular season, so I don't know where those 5 GWG would come into effect with voting. If that's cleared up I may know what he is saying.

 

I just don't know how people got the whole idea that MVP was best in the league when we have the Outstanding Player award as well. MVP signifies that if he was simply out of the sim for that team, the team would not have been where they are. Which is why when I see people put multiple guys from one team on a ballot, I start to wonder if they know what it means. An example of that, If someone was to submit a ballot with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf on it, how would that make sense? You'd have to decipher who is the best between the two first. Just my opinion. 35 seasons and I have only seen one era where unbiased opinions seemed to be formed.

 

Also, in terms of example of the past, it's hard to show much without anything from the old board. I also tend to not take the award shit to heart, so I never store it away. I simply vote on what the sim presents, seeing as that's the sole thing we should be doing. You brought up "group" which is funny because I could only name 3 people or so I'd associate with each out. It just seems like the opinion of several is the be all end all, and if you disagree you are wrong or will be shot down.

 

I completely agree with you on MVP. I was pretty much anti Wozniak before due to the reasons you suggest, however after digging more into the details I became less and less. You were an option to be honest and I can vouch that in that Fan590 Chris wrote about he and I did look up your stats against good teams and against bad teams. That was the basis of that analysis completely. 

 

To your point, MVP is the player that team counted on to win games. But this isn't the NHL. There are no teams with no rosters in the NHL. Meaning that it doesn't matter how a team performs against Riga or NY, the top teams in the league are going to beat them. Ergo all stats gained in those games are irrelevant. You need to look at how the team played against the teams they had a chance to lose against, and how the individual player in question helped or hindered that teams ability to win and or lose. Which is exactly what Chris and I did. Wozniak was consistent all season as mentioned and only had 10 games without points. But it is a still a hesitant candidate because despite all his points Calgary was 17-15 against the other four top teams in the league. While Wozniaks point totals are glowing in those games, having those glowing point totals really only led Calgary to just better than .500 win percentage. Which is where my initial argument for Tukio was born in an old Fan590 thread. But as we dug into each and every game to write down more stats we saw more and more that Tukio was facing low shot totals most of the time, even against quality teams. In the case of Taylor he had a similar situation to Wozniak in that a ton of his points came against NY/Riga. Cologne also got dominated by Helsinki this season which greatly influenced the stats of Cologne against the other top teams. We also considered the fact that Europe was so weak this season, the chance of you guys not making the playoffs was very slim. While the 91 points is certainly nothing to sneeze at, still the worst of the top teams mostly because Cologne struggled against those teams.

 

Ultimately all this digging really did was at least for me I can't speak for Chris here but lead us to think that the way the NHL determines MVP and how we translate that doesn't really work here. You can't justify it. There is always other factors. Rift finished the season with the highest goalie stats, but his overall stats against top teams is hardly glowing. He stole games just as his offense carried him to games. Hardly "MVP." In the case of Grigs the 5 GWG stat isn't from the playoffs. He had 14 on the season, the 5 he had were against Helsinki/Calgary, teams that are not easy wins. Chris probably could of made that clearer in the article.

 

To summarize for people who won't read all this, the stats we have deliver very little context to actually make a proper MVP vote. Who was most valuable to their team? Tons of players, but the structure of the VHL makes it so that we can't just look at end all stats and say "bang that player is the answer." Stat inflation is HUGE in this league, and while it became more apparent this season it has always been a problem. It makes it very hard to actually see things for the face value they are, where as in the NHL it's so much easier. In the NHL you can see a team struggling to get into the playoff picture then have a player go on a tear and score 20 goals in the last 25 games and their team make the playoffs. Much easier of a translation there.  

[Mike 708]

If Calgary went 17-15 against good teams and Wozniak played good in those games as well I guess my argument would be what would that record be if Wozniak wasn't on the team?

 

As for the meat of the original article I can understand the thought process but can't really think of examples of where it made a difference.  Jericho/Devise/ADV/ w/e might be in some "clique" but only ADV is a GM out of those 3 so for the sake of voting on things for awards I don't see how this is relevant.  I think Sterling is the only member currently on the board with the ability to come in make a post and cause drastic change in opinion.  The whole should we vote 3 people in for HOF and he said no that's stupid is my most recent memory of that.

 

Devise talks a lot (in both volume for each post and in the number of actual posts) and makes many valid points a lot of the time I don't see how it effects me.  I still make my own decisions and do my own research.  From what I remember Kasey Braun was a high TPE player that wasn't very good you even made a comment about that in the stats area yesterday when I posted that I updated the shootout stuff.  If you feel FISTED ANALLY BY A CIRCUS MONKEY at all for awards It wasn't in recent memory.  While I often disagree with you and if I've ever really fought with anyone recently it would have been you that doesn't mean I don't have respect for you or do things to purposely harm you/your player.

 

I have said numerous times in chat to other members that I think in this league you do the best job at recruiting new members/bringing back old members/keep fringe members active that would have likely gone inactive if they had another GM.  I vote for Kameron Taylor every time I feel he is worthy of an award just as I voted for you today in the Grimm Jonsson Trophy.  You and STZ are the only two members in the EU right now that I feel go above and beyond for their teams (I'd put Tukio(Higgins) in there too but he's not on the ballot).  Anyway back on point I have no idea what you really refer to in this article without examples since I don't see the same issues you are referencing.

[Advantage 2,899]

And on the point Mike makes, as the only GM of "the clique" I feel I've been pretty unbiased in the past and always try and dive into the statistics before making a decision.  For example, I've already told many I don't plan on voting Sullivan for next year's HOF cause Labatte and Rybak had better careers.  I could easily make the argument for him, but the fact is the other two have been better.  I like to give it to the most deserving.

 

In addition, the Grigs thing was certainly regular season related and I by no means have a personal favourite in this year's vote, and even if I did, I'd give it to most deserving..as it should be.

[Victor 11,021]

What happened to the days of great one-liner arguments? Devise has ruined the league.

[Devise 4,475]

What happened to the days of great one-liner arguments? Devise has ruined the league.

 

Good point. This years MVP race is so tight and complicated that nobody should be offended when it all gets said and done.

[Guest]

Mike, in terms of recently definitely not. I have never said Braun deserves anything anyways, don't know why that name was really brought up haha. In fact I've always had high expectations of players and some have been on season basis equal to some award winners, did I win? No but I don't really care, nor did I ever vouch for myself. But may be a member has to hype your player up? I don't know, I've seen more of it in the past few seasons and it kind of disappoints me.

 

Regarding, the whole examples thing. Like I said hard for me to pull out anything since the old board isn't here. I know you said ADV is the only GM, but think about who submits the ballot (not all are GM's, but obviously thats the best way of doing it anyways).

 

Also, Devise. Your argument makes sense but at the same time in the NHL some teams face very weak divisional opponents all year long and beat up on them too. In my personal opinion you take anyone of Wozniak, Rybak or Salmon off and they are still a playoff team. However you take Lebeau out and replace him with another goaltender, and Seattle would be in the postseason ahead of them. I'm not vouching for Lebeau, just showing you my view on how you reward MVP. Who cares if they put up points agains shitty teams, or how they only put up only a PPG total against good teams, the fact is you remove them from their team and that team is fucked.

 

And since I said "cliques", I'm referring to the fact that in the past disagreements and arguments have gotten heated and since than it seems a bunch of members will refuse to acknowledge the work put in and the stats achieved by many. I don't want to start a shitstorm so I won't get into it. But from my standpoint and many others I have spoken to its a "well whats the point, we will always be second place". It kind of turns people away, and one thing I've noticed from kind of getting my feet wet in the SHL. 

 

As someone who is huge on trying to bring people to our site, I now can kind of see where some of the SHL guys come from when it comes to having a VHL agenda. A lot of guys over there say the VHL is only for a certain amount of guys. I went over there and saw there are guys that used to be over here and are over there being productive, but they left here cause they know they would never get acknowledged even if they tried. It's one thing I've noticed that doesn't allow our league to grow. In a way, the picture has been painted and their is no way of making altercations.

[JardyB10 4,869]

Yeah I don't even know what this thread is about (other than the OP).  Sterling's penis size?  Probably a 27A.

[Devise 4,475]

I don't see why you think your going to start some shit storm. At least with me Kendrick. There is no bias on my "groups" end. Which is very narrow definition since really the only people on my end who Skype regularly is myself Chris and Jericho. Noah sometimes as well. We aren't elitist we don't favor our own players and friends. Proof? Green, STZ two first gens who are doing tons in terms of winning awards etc....

 

I'm not saying they may not have a point, but again when you refuse to cite specific examples. Regardless of the shit storm, if this is an issue it's an issue...but I feel like your not bringing up examples because you don't have any. Because all you are doing is assuming based on the fact that you believe there is some secret society of members trying to run the forum the way they see fit. I can't speak for any other groups, because I don't really know much others, but the small little group I am in I can easily attest that nothing of the sort is even happening regarding that. Tons of facts support this. 

[Guest]

Yes I am afraid to start a shitstorm. But that's cause in the past every time I've said something I've been belittled and treated like it doesn't carry much weight. I'd list examples but listing on here is pointless. In a way yes I am saying it is an "elitist" way of thinking cause often times I find ADV, Devise, Jericho and Kyle to kind of blend in and take a group stance on something. Now do you agree? Obviously not cause I'm involving you in it. However from an outside perspective and someone who isn't part of a group it certainly feels the the view of a single group is the only way to think, or get out.

 

I talked to Jeff Krever who used to be here. Jeff and I have recently not seen eye to eye on things because of me calling him out on some of his thoughts towards the Maple Leafs. But if one thing is for sure Krever will always have my respect, and he always did. When he was in the VHL he was a very respected member and can be considered one of it's founding fathers if you want. However, Jeff left the VHL and went to the SHL where he had success. I approached him a couple months ago and we had a long talk about both leagues. His #1 thing that pissed me off (not because he said it but because he sort of had a point) was that he feels the VHL is based around who knows who. Krever said he was never ripped apart or ripped off when it came to awards. He did say however that he feels if you take a backseat approach and build your player nicely but don't talk all around the board, you will not win a thing. To extent he is right, because if you don't say anything no one recognizes you. However, just because you are not around the board doesn't mean come Award time you should be forgotten, and I think people tend to forget that. He mentioned that he thinks only some figureheads/top members will ever get the recognition and he has a point there as well. For years I called you out on only talking about New York, and for years it was true. Then I recently started listening to the Pajodcast and thought, maybe times have changed. I was about half way through an episode and it was very well done, then for a good 15 minutes the talk was about "Rift this" "Rift that" and I started to get annoyed. My point is, is their a way to win anything or be brought to the forefront without having to publish your own name?

 

Maybe I just come from a different area where silence is still golden and people can still have great careers with honours and such without having to overhype their guy for it. To me is kind of screams propaganda.

 

To add to my point about Krever, I had gone to the SHL and noticed about 10 names at the bottom who were over here and contributing but left. So I decided to ask a couple of them why and they basically told me exactly what Krever said. This league needs to open itself to visitors. You may not like this response by me or you may not agree with any of it, but fact of the matter is this league is a stand still in terms of members going forward. I can only name about 3-4 people I think will become STZ's or Green's going forward and I hate seeing just that number after 6 years here.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Kendrick

[Jericho 917]

The thing about using the pajodcast topic choice is that we aren't always pushing out own players for awards, but we do spend a lot of time talking about them. We talk about them because they interest us, but if you listened to the awards prediction one (pre-playoffs) we rarely spoke about our own players except for places where they belonged. Devise spent the entire time we talked MVP arguing for Tukio when he could easily have said Rift. I think he picked himself for the Shaw, but anyone else could easily have also picked Rift there and I feel the only other time one of us was mentioned was Kellinger for the Pussy Award, and we only glazed over him long enough to say that though Sandro had 8 fewer PIM, the 30 points were more relevant.

 

We do often come to the boards unified in opinion, but that comes from us having already talked about them before hand in skype. We often start the discussion arguing for two different players but Chris and Devise will go look really deep into stats and make an argument that changes my or the other's mind. By the time we post we've all come to the same page. That doesn't mean we decide these things together, we've also stayed apart on things that we fundamentally disagree on, but there are often times where one side is able to convince the other that his stance is stronger.

 

It doesn't always come across in text, but both Chris and Devise are excellent at conveying their point of view to others, even when talking to someone who has limited knowledge on the subject. This usually leads the "group" to fully understand the views of everyone in it, and often that is a situation that leads to a consensus. So while we don't "vote" together, we do have discussions about our opinions, and sometimes those opinions are changed. There isn't anything wrong with that, it makes for a more informed opinion.

[Devise 4,475]

Yes I am afraid to start a shitstorm. But that's cause in the past every time I've said something I've been belittled and treated like it doesn't need carry much weight. I'd list examples and listing on here is pointless. In a way yes I am say it is an "elitist" way of thinking cause often times I find ADV, Devise, Jericho and Kyle to kind of blend in and take a group stance on something. Now do you agree? Obviously not cause I'm involving you in it. However from an outside perspective and someone who isn't part of a group it certainly feels the the view of a single group is the only way to think, or get out.

 

I talked to Jeff Krever who used to be here. Jeff and I have recently not seen eye to eye on things because of me calling him out on some of his thoughts towards the Maple Leafs. But if one thing is for sure Krever will always have my respect, and he always did. When he was in the VHL he was a very respected member and can be considered one of it's founding fathers if you want. However, Jeff left the VHL and went to the SHL where he had success. I approached him a couple months ago and we had a long talk about both leagues. His #1 thing that pissed me off (not because he said it but because he sort of had a point) was that he feels the VHL is based around who knows who. Krever said he was never ripped apart or ripped off when it came to awards. He did say however that he feels if you take a backseat approach and build your player nicely but don't talk all around the board, you will not win a thing. To extent he is right, because if you don't say anything no one recognizes you. However, just because you are not around the board doesn't mean come Award time you should be forgotten, and I think people tend to forget that. He mentioned that he thinks only some figureheads/top members will ever get the recognition and he has a point there as well. For years I called you out on only talking about New York, and for years it was true. Then I recently started listening to the Pajodcast and thought, maybe times have changed. I was about half way through an episode and it was very well done, then for a good 15 minutes the talk was about "Rift this" "Rift that" and I started to get annoyed. My point is, is their a way to win anything or be brought to the forefront without having to publish your own name?

 

Maybe I just come from a different area where silence is still golden and people can still have great careers with honours and such without having to overhype their guy for it. To me is kind of screams propaganda.

 

To add to my point about Krever, I had gone to the SHL and noticed about 10 names at the bottom who were over here and contributing but left. So I decided to ask a couple of them why and they basically told me exactly what Krever said. This league needs to open itself to visitors. You may not like this response by me or you may not agree with any of it, but fact of the matter is this league is a stand still in terms of members going forward. I can only name about 3-4 people I think will become STZ's or Green's going forward and I hate seeing just that number after 6 years here.

 

If you've been belittled it hasn't been by me. I'm not that type of person. I may make the occasionally joking off hand remark but when it comes time to talk about something seriously I generally take it seriously.

 

In regards to your accusations, tons of members around here received tons of recognition regardless of how active they are. You talk about people winning awards and getting recognition only being some select group of people when that simply isn't true. Look at the past award winners. Find me the popularity contest in them. Look at the ballots people have this year, look at peoples thoughts on them. Find me the bias. How many people have claimed Davey Jones as rookie of the year? Tons, I'm one of them. and on record. Why? Because of the stats. It's like you want us to spend our time doing a Podcast, never talk about our own players ever...even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and then just bring up other people just for the sake of it. 

 

Ultimately there was a time when I was doing Pajodcasts that I'd always have to throw in "don't mean to bring up my own player" yada yada. You forget Kendrick, I have only won a limited amount of awards here too and while I generally am a pretty humble guy....engaging in the league to have some fun with your player is a completely fine thing to do. Your concession about me saying Rift this or Rift that implies I sit there and talk about how I"m some god of a player who has descended upon this league. If that is the perspective you get from how I speak then you are misreading the situation. I've talked about Rift maybe winning a few things legitimately, this year the Shaw and his playoff performance with Labatte on the last episode but I also put the hell over Labatte because I enjoyed playing him in the playoffs. Why is that a bad thing to talk about? Why is that forsaken? I shouldn't have to feel bad or guilty about talking about my player on occasion...the podcast is what over an hour? So I spend 5 minutes or 10 minutes total in periods talking about my player when it comes up naturally, it isn't like I force it.

 

The fact is Kendrick you see and hear what you want to see and hear. We tell you every time we have these discussion so and so is not apart of our "group" and every single time you have new names. Kyle Dowd NEVER Skypes with us. He doesn't share some group opinion with us. Why do you keep projecting members into this as if it is bigger than it is? It isn't. It literally is barely even a group. It's three friends who Skype and happen to be friends with a few other people on the league and also sometimes Skype. It isn't like guys like STZ who has won awards had to come into our group for us to consider them for awards. Because I think I've talked to STZ on Skype like once. So I talk highly of him on my Pajodcast? Of course, he's a great fucking member in this league. As is Green, Flyersfan, and I could list TONS of members that I will look over or pay attention to who quietly go on and I find to be great members. Tons of times they get recognition from on me on Podcast and throughout the board. The reason you hear more about us? Simply because we post more....that is kind of a consequences of being more active is you see us more often. Our usernames, our signatures, topics relating to us or conversations about us in conjunction with the league. It's like your saying you want us to be inactive because you don't like us. Or less active.

 

As for the group mentality and always agreeing. Again you see what you choose to see in this Kendrick. Facts are all over this board where Noah, Jericho, Chris and myself disagree. Hell go look at the recent Pajodcast thread where I basically inform Kesler that I do not agree with Jericho targeting him all the time. Notice how I never participate in those threads when Jericho does them? Because I find it childish. Jericho knows this. Debates have happened countless times between Jericho and me or Chris and me on VHL topics and non VHL topics both on Pajodcasts and off. I just don't see why we should need to defend ourselves when all we are doing is participating in this forum. We aren't alienating anyone. Nobody who comes over here doesn't get a fair chance. On the old site before we switched I also messaged tons of new members and the biggest thing I was always told about in terms of people going inactive was a lack of overall league interest in the VHLM. 

 

Either way though you seem to be one of the only ones with these criticisms. I can't speak for the SHL people because I haven't said nor done anything to the people you referenced. Other than send some Welcome Messages and Intro a few of them to the VHL on the old site. I don't vote on awards, I am on the BoG and have been nothing but unbiased and tried to present fresh and interesting ideas there. If you have issues with me ever, don't hesitate to PM me. I don't get offended. My only issue comes from the fact that I feel like you are reaching at facts because you simply don't like the way we operate business. You don't like how we talk like we know this league, how we want to make changes this league and suggest ideas to this league, and how we constantly discuss things in crazy detail. I mean look at this Media Spot. You talk about how Sterling used to write his article about awards and that was that. No talking, no "pushing people to vote certain ways" which on my end doesn't happen. I speak my mind on awards and so does everyone else. Again you want people to be invested and interested in the league but they can't voice their opinions? Sounds a bit..odd. Anyway I"ve responded enough here. 

 

It sucks that members who have joined haven't felt like they could get engaged or do any damage in this league. Because they can, and there is nothing standing in their way. At least I'm not. If they were to join the league and earn TPE and show up in the sim in relevant ways...they would get attention. Simple as that.

[Guest]

Agree to disagree. One thing I'll add is you say I see things that I want to see and only read what I want, but I find it kind of the same on your end too. I just feel this league has taken a step down in terms of inviting new members in, and frankly their is proof with the decline in membership (regardless of the site change). Many factors go into that and I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just saying there are more reasons and this being one of them. You have to remember that being part of this "group" that you guys claim to be, part of the territory is people will paint you like I have done. Is it wrong? Not exactly because grouping opinions is fine. Do I agree with what you've said? To a point yeah I do. But I also think during discussions its always one side.

 

For the record, I don't expect you not to talk about your players. I just noticed when you guys have things ready to go you rarely know anything outside of your player or Quebec or what have you. Which is why that one time I said I thin ADV and Jericho only follow there player. Nothing is wrong with that, but when on a podcast it kind of seems rather silly when other names are brought up. Of course naturally a guy is going to know more about his player and be able to recite stats of his off the top of his head, but at times it seems like that's all thats known. Maybe it's part of the fact I'm a GM and keep tabs on a lot of players throughout the league, but I just found it kind of funny.

[Mike 708]

Sorry I was following this argument but I couldn't read that last devise post  .

 

With regards to Kendrick's theory about the VHL not being open to new members or basically ignoring members (at least they dont get awards or get talked about as much) for those who aren't out promoting them selves is completely 100% wrong information.  Kendrick I'd like to know who else besides Jeff Krever that were once active VHLers and are now still contributing in the SHL.  Jeff I liked I was part of the SHL (I think there was another league called the SHL b4 the SHL that got remade with the same name he used to run it Alex Waton(Cujo) was there and etc thats how I found the ESHL way back when) but Jeff was a S1 player that ended up with like 95 TPE.

THE REAL DIFFERENCE between the leagues is most people who are really successful in the SHL that didn't make it in the VHL are lazy.  Its that simple they didn't put forth the effort to do point tasks.  Find me people in the VHL with a lot of TPE who deserved to win awards but were quiet.  The reason you get so much TPE is you invest time in the league and become part of the community.  We don't shun people away from the community but if you aren't willing to put forth the effort you won't ever be successful.  Thats a fundamental difference between the SHL and VHL.  I think of Flyers Fan/Eagles Fan/Tylar 3 members who are all I would consider active but with their first player they didn't win a ton of awards because they were not super active throughout their career.  If you think for one second they should be rewarded with the same acknowledges as say Victor's Chenko than thats just stupid.

 

Flyers Fan/Eagles Fan/Tylar I like all three of them they are good people I am looking to draft them to Riga in the off-season and all started out slower but have become way more active over time heading into their second players.  Do they now have a real shot at winning awards and having really great careers?  YES is it because they are out promoting their players and being selfish?  NO its because they actually put forth the work.  I always liked Jeff Krever but he was always lazy in point task leagues thats why he wasn't successful here not because the community shunned him. 

Edited December 14, 2013 by Mike

[Mike 708]

As far as Kendrick's opinion of the Pajodcast I'd say has some merit.  I don't blame people who do the podcast for talking about their players slightly more and as far as providing equal quality insight I think its difficult when you are not part of the other teams.  The only way to make the Pajodcast more informative and balanced would be to bring in other guests from other teams with different knowledge and perspectives.  Might as well bring Kendrick on at the very least it could provide entertainment if you guys fight.  The content has issues sometimes one of the recent ones Devise and ADV were talking for quite a while and when Jericho chimed in he was lost   but I found it funny.  I like the Pajodcast though and said it was my favorite podcast even when more were done regardless of any imperfections I'd rather have it going than not.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Sorry I was following this argument but I couldn't read that last devise post  .

 

With regards to Kendrick's theory about the VHL not being open to new members or basically ignoring members (at least they dont get awards or get talked about as much) for those who aren't out promoting them selves is completely 100% wrong information.  Kendrick I'd like to know who else besides Jeff Krever that were once active VHLers and are now still contributing in the SHL.  Jeff I liked I was part of the SHL (I think there was another league called the SHL b4 the SHL that got remade with the same name he used to run it Alex Waton(Cujo) was there and etc thats how I found the ESHL way back when) but Jeff was a S1 player that ended up with like 95 TPE.

THE REAL DIFFERENCE between the leagues is most people who are really successful in the SHL that didn't make it in the VHL are lazy.  Its that simple they didn't put forth the effort to do point tasks.  Find me people in the VHL with a lot of TPE who deserved to win awards but were quiet.  The reason you get so much TPE is you invest time in the league and become part of the community.  We don't shun people away from the community but if you aren't willing to put forth the effort you won't ever be successful.  Thats a fundamental difference between the SHL and VHL.  I think of Flyers Fan/Eagles Fan/Tylar 3 members who are all I would consider active but with their first player they didn't win a ton of awards because they were not super active throughout their career.  If you think for one second they should be rewarded with the same acknowledges as say Victor's Chenko than thats just stupid.

 

Flyers Fan/Eagles Fan/Tylar I like all three of them they are good people I am looking to draft them to Riga in the off-season and all started out slower but have become way more active over time heading into their second players.  Do they now have a real shot at winning awards and having really great careers?  YES is it because they are out promoting their players and being selfish?  NO its because they actually put forth the work.  I always liked Jeff Krever but he was always lazy in point task leagues thats why he wasn't successful here not because the community shunned him. 

 

Vote Robin Gow for VHLM MVP please. Thanks.

 

Oh, and Jim Gow for VHLM GM of the year.

 

On a more serious note though, I didn't win any awards with Jim because frankly I didn't deserve any. When my player was good, I became an all-star, and I eventually became an assistant captain (which doesn't mean much, but still means something) with Cologne because I started to speak outside of the LR more than I did in the past. 

 

I do agree with Mike that a lot of the reason that some SHL members fail here is that it takes more work to be a very successful player here than it does there. I joined the SHL a couple of months ago just to get to know some more people (and in case the VHL didn't get back up on it's feet way back when, but thankfully it did), and one of the things I noticed is that there is a lot less work you need to do if you want to have a solid, yet not spectacular, player. The couple of SHL people that I talked to also cited how cluttered our website/old website is as a negative, but honestly I think their site is a whole lot more confusing than ours.

[Advantage 2,899]

Which is why that one time I said I thin ADV and Jericho only follow there player. Nothing is wrong with that, but when on a podcast it kind of seems rather silly when other names are brought up. Of course naturally a guy is going to know more about his player and be able to recite stats of his off the top of his head, but at times it seems like that's all thats known. Maybe it's part of the fact I'm a GM and keep tabs on a lot of players throughout the league, but I just found it kind of funny.

I don't really want to insert myself into this argument and rather focus on this essay that needs to be written...I find this rather insulting and is a pretty clear example that you don't consistently listen to the podcast.  Other than the last couple I did which were entrenched in the middle of the busiest time of the year for me, I often come ready with not just knowledge of my own player or team, but many others which is why I go out of my way to dive into the statistics and share my opinion on the board like I did earlier today with my MVP candidates fan 590.  And even when I may not have had the time to look at the league as a whole, I often assert myself in the middle of it during a podcast to provide opinions that cover all ten teams and the members on them.

 

As someone who always has valued more than just myself and my team, I just take slight offense to saying that and while I can't speak necessarily on Jericho's behalf, I assure you that he knows a lot more than just his player.

[Jericho 917]

I don't really want to insert myself into this argument and rather focus on this essay that needs to be written...I find this rather insulting and is a pretty clear example that you don't consistently listen to the podcast.  Other than the last couple I did which were entrenched in the middle of the busiest time of the year for me, I often come ready with not just knowledge of my own player or team, but many others which is why I go out of my way to dive into the statistics and share my opinion on the board like I did earlier today with my MVP candidates fan 590.  And even when I may not have had the time to look at the league as a whole, I often assert myself in the middle of it during a podcast to provide opinions that cover all ten teams and the members on them.

 

As someone who always has valued more than just myself and my team, I just take slight offense to saying that and while I can't speak necessarily on Jericho's behalf, I assure you that he knows a lot more than just his player.

 

Yeah and I don't pay any attention to anything else because I'm an arrogant fuckhead!

 

But for real, on the pajodcast I'm the comic relief. I'm playing a character and my gimmick is much more about making laughs than legit points. I still contribute to discussions, but clearly those two are better at both conveying their points and of getting information out of stats than I am. I on the other hand am better at getting cheap laughs when I interact with the other two.

 

But that's just a me thing, Chris is way more like Devise as opposed to being like me.

[sterling 2,000]

I dont believe in long posts. You are all ruining this shit. Be succinct for Christ's sake

[Mike 708]

suc·cinct

sə(k)ˈsiNG(k)t/

adjective

 

1. 1.

   (esp. of something written or spoken) briefly and clearly expressed.

   "use short, succinct sentences"

   synonyms: concise, short (and sweet), brief, compact, condensed, crisp, laconic,terse, to the point, pithy, epigrammatic, synoptic, gnomic; More

    

    

    

    

   Over my head