2013-2014 NHL Discussion Thread

[Guest]

But you're also forgetting that when Gillis signed he was still in the apex of the time where the team was making the most money. Who's to say things were not promised and ideas were thrown into discussion that made the signing reasonable. It's the things said/done behind closed doors we all love to pick a part and rip a part. At that point it made sense to extend him for some period of time, 5 years? Yea probably not, but remember there are two people in a contract discussion. Why on earth after being a part of 2 presidents cups and a Cup final should Gillis not get some sort of long term security. Are we going to fire him just because he wants a longer term?

No of course not, but it shows their inability to negotiate well if he is handed a term like that just for getting them to the dance, but going home empty handed. Look Mike Gillis wasn't very good, but if you think the Aquafina's deserve no blame or little amounts, you are living in an Edmonton Oilers management state of mind. They have full grasp of this franchise by the nuts and aren't willing to help out properly, they know shit besides making money.

[8Ovechkin8 262]

No of course not, but it shows their inability to negotiate well if he is handed a term like that just for getting them to the dance, but going home empty handed. Look Mike Gillis wasn't very good, but if you think the Aquafina's deserve no blame or little amounts, you are living in an Edmonton Oilers management state of mind. They have full grasp of this franchise by the nuts and aren't willing to help out properly, they know shit besides making money.

What is your definition of helping out properly? Oh give me a break, "shows their inability to negotiate well" GM contracts have no correlation to the cap, and are not bounded by a minimum term. They can afford to give out longer contracts to management as 3-5 years is the typical standard, but they have every right to terminate it when they want, as well as willing to pay what ever is owed after. To suggest that the owners here have affected the on ice product of the Canucks like the situation in Edmonton is ridiculous.

Edited April 10, 2014 by 8Ovechkin8

[Guest]

What is your definition of helping out properly? Oh give me a break, "shows their inability to negotiate well" GM contracts have no correlation to the cap, and are not bounded by a minimum term. They can afford to give out longer contracts to management as 3-5 years is the typical standard, but they have every right to terminate it when they want, as well as willing to pay what ever is owed after. To suggest that the owners here have affected the on ice product of the Canucks like the situation in Edmonton is ridiculous.

To extent they have affected it. Yes they can offer a contract out but in the hockey world you don't hand out a 5 year extension unless you have a vision for the guy staying there moulding the franchise for more than a season. Now did MG fail? yes he did. However if they were unsure, they have the upper hand in negotiations when doing that anyways.

[Sandro 251]

Advance Gilman to GM, make Naslund Assistant, then have Naslund replace Gilman in two years at the end of his contract #ez

 

I'm doubtful Naslund will be here if Linden's in charge. Some of the media guys -- as much as I hate them -- seemed to be suggesting that there's some bad blood between the two. Or maybe that just got mixed up in the Bure/Linden stuff and I was misinterpreting, because it's Twitter.

[Sandro 251]

Have they really "fucked over" the team in any way since joining? Sure they'll try to squeeze ever dollar out of you but they're BUSINESS men and they treat this as a BUSINESS. They worry about margins and growth income while they hire people and leave the hockey to them.

 

They potentially just did in the last 48 hours. The Aquilinis are still trying to win the 2011 Stanley Cup. They want to become some gritty team that bullies other teams, but seem to be forgetting that you need to have the skill to back it up. I don't need to tell the people here about what I think of Trevor Linden as a person and a player, but I worry that he's just going to be a figurehead for the Aquilinis to do what they want with the team. Francesco is more fanboy than he is owner, and that's not a good mix. He's done what he has to do in appointing Linden, now let Linden do his job without fucking around. It's starting to seem like everyone has moved on from 2011 except ownership.

 

EDIT: And before anyone says I sound like Botchford or one of the other media guys who are saying similar things, just stop for a second and think that it might be because I'm of the same mindset and agree with them.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Sandro

[Tyler 885]

I've already tweeted it, but if Feaster is hired the Habs are getting promoted to my #1 team until the tragedy ends. A Feaster/Torts combo would be like the Keenan era on steroids.

 

 

Welcome.

[DollarAndADream 3,357]

Seriously? Making fun of the guy for being an Islanders fan I get, but probably some respect should be showed considering Tavares had a season ending injury representing the country the Nucks fans are from in the Olympics. Just saying. 

 

 

I agree. The owners are at fault here for not coming out and doing something about. Enough of Mike Gillis calming the season ticket holders, how about the people who spend money on one game cause they are so expensive?

 

Devise, travhave said they were making fun of the kid in the jersey, he never said they were making fun of Tavares in general.

You know, I made a comment in this thread and totally forgot about it. Now it's a few weeks later. 

 

I can 100% confirm that the guy in the Islanders jersey was being made fun of because the were up 3-0 and he was wearing the team's jersey. It had nothing to do with Tavares. 

 

 

Canucks had a nice cushion of a lead, the people heckled him for it. Obviously it did no good since the Isles won 7-4.

[Megster 63]

I always cheer for the Sharks and the Blues every year all year because Joe Thornton and David Backes are bae.  I don't mind seeing the Ducks do well either.  As for the East, I don't want Pittsburgh, Philly, or New York to do well.  I don't really like Boston either so I guess Tampa I would be the most okay with doing well. 

Also if Jay Feaster becomes Vancouver's GM I would probably not stop laughing for 4 years because that would be #great. 

[8Ovechkin8 262]

They potentially just did in the last 48 hours. The Aquilinis are still trying to win the 2011 Stanley Cup. They want to become some gritty team that bullies other teams, but seem to be forgetting that you need to have the skill to back it up. I don't need to tell the people here about what I think of Trevor Linden as a person and a player, but I worry that he's just going to be a figurehead for the Aquilinis to do what they want with the team. Francesco is more fanboy than he is owner, and that's not a good mix. He's done what he has to do in appointing Linden, now let Linden do his job without fucking around. It's starting to seem like everyone has moved on from 2011 except ownership.

 

EDIT: And before anyone says I sound like Botchford or one of the other media guys who are saying similar things, just stop for a second and think that it might be because I'm of the same mindset and agree with them.

You do realise the whole toughness thing was a notion brought on by Gillis which was given approval by ownership. And agreeing with Botchford is like agreeing with a 5 year old. The guy is by far the worst media guy in Vancouver and speaks with a shovel up his ass 90% of the time. Don't be that guy Sandro

 

To extent they have affected it. Yes they can offer a contract out but in the hockey world you don't hand out a 5 year extension unless you have a vision for the guy staying there moulding the franchise for more than a season. Now did MG fail? yes he did. However if they were unsure, they have the upper hand in negotiations when doing that anyways.

You don't seem to know the difference between hockey world and business world. Hiring a GM for ANY team is a BUISNESS move not a hockey move whether you agree or not its a cold hard fact. You're sure as all hell right when you say Gillis failed as a GM, but does that mean he wasn't, overall, successful? No, now you're just depriving this guy of his accomplishments over the past 6 seasons. If someone is making you the most money you have EVER made in a company during a time period then they have ever right to get a long-ish term contract with some sense of security. Why on earth would MG take anything 2 years or under? And if ownership is stuck on a 1 year or 2 year deal, you don't just let him walk, that's what you call bad business.

also

What is your definition of helping out properly?

Edited April 10, 2014 by 8Ovechkin8

[Sandro 251]

You do realise the whole toughness thing was a notion brought on by Gillis which was given approval by ownership. And agreeing with Botchford is like agreeing with a 5 year old. The guy is by far the worst media guy in Vancouver and speaks with a shovel up his ass 90% of the time. Don't be that guy Sandro

 

I agree with Botchford, but I was thinking the same thing before I read anything he said. You seriously believe for a second that decision wasn't heavily influenced by the Aquilinis? Gillis wanted to keep his job so he did what he was told. Last week he laid things out the way he saw them, basically giving ownership a giant middle finger and saying "we're doing this my way or I'm gone".

 

Gillis probably slept as well as anyone after getting fired, he was sick of dealing with the Aquilinis and their bullshit.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Sandro

[8Ovechkin8 262]

I agree with Botchford, but I was thinking the same thing before I read anything he said. You seriously believe for a second that decision wasn't heavily influenced by the Aquilinis? Gillis wanted to keep his job so he did what he was told. Last week he laid things out the way he saw them, basically giving ownership a giant middle finger and saying "we're doing this my way or I'm gone".

 

Gillis probably slept as well as anyone after getting fired, he was sick of dealing with the Aquilinis and their bullshit.

I honestly believe its a mixture between the two but more influence on Gillis. Anyone can back track and try to hide their ass on radio, all I heard in that interview is "omg why did we hire torts this guy is going to get me fired", which he did and Torts should be next regardless.

[Guest Svoboda_3]

Go! Avs Go!

[Sandro 251]

If Calgary wins their last two games, Winnipeg gets two more points, and the Canucks lose out their final games they could drop to 14th in the conference. HELLO TOP 5 DRAFT PICK, YES I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE ONE OF THOSE PLEASE.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Sandro

[Kesler 1,514]

This draft is weak is it not? Ho-Sang, Ekblad, Reihnhart?

[8Ovechkin8 262]

If Calgary wins their last two games, Winnipeg gets two more points, and the Canucks lose out their final games they could drop to 14th in the conference. HELLO TOP 5 DRAFT PICK, YES I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE ONE OF THOSE PLEASE.

Winnipeg, Ottawa and Carolina all can pass us. DUDE TOP 5 PICK.

This draft is weak is it not? Ho-Sang, Ekblad, Reihnhart?

Although the draft isn't as good as past years, I lmao at the fact you left off the possible 1st overall pick when naming people hahahaha.

[Kesler 1,514]

Although the draft isn't as good as past years, I lmao at the fact you left off the possible 1st overall pick when naming people hahahaha.

Who is that? I would say Ekblad is a possible number one pick.

[Guest]

You don't seem to know the difference between hockey world and business world. Hiring a GM for ANY team is a BUISNESS move not a hockey move whether you agree or not its a cold hard fact. You're sure as all hell right when you say Gillis failed as a GM, but does that mean he wasn't, overall, successful? No, now you're just depriving this guy of his accomplishments over the past 6 seasons. If someone is making you the most money you have EVER made in a company during a time period then they have ever right to get a long-ish term contract with some sense of security. Why on earth would MG take anything 2 years or under? And if ownership is stuck on a 1 year or 2 year deal, you don't just let him walk, that's what you call bad business.

What is your definition of helping out properly?

I do know the difference. I just don't think you understand that the both have to come together in order for one to fully assess the situation. It's not a cold hard fact, don't just plant unproven ideologies that you came up with and call it a fact. Hiring a GM is both a hockey move and business move.  If you honestly think hiring a GM is just a business move and to be able to generate revenue solely, you are sadly mistaken. Hiring a General Manager for an NHL team means they put butts in the seats and stars on the ice. Now yes, butts in the seats come from grabbing stars on the ice, but in order to sell out you need to have a good hockey team do you not?

 

The reason I question these Francesco is not that he gave a five year contract to someone who made him money, you are right there, he deserved it because he gave Francesco growth financially. I question the fact he gave a 5 year extension to a guy and only gave him another year to prove if he could grow some more, which he didn't end up doing. You don't hand out terms like that unless you wholeheartedly agree that Mike Gillis is your man for another tenure (at least 2-3 years). Francesco might be a business man (which some give too much credit too) but he has no knowledge of the game of hockey. When a GM like Gillis comes to him with possible scenarios involving Luongo, Kesler or trading the Sedins, do you have faith in Francesco to think with his wallet or think with a hockey mind?

 

You want to increase the star power you have on the ice? Well then go out and grab players that will win the cup, not ones who (apparently to you) make smart choices business-wise. The business move isn't always the best move (i.e. Yashin, Gomez etc.). It's a very cut throat league and if you want to pride yourself as an owner who made tons of money then go ahead and do that, but you may not be the owner who has put his team in a spot to win cups. Mike Gillis made some very questionable moves, but I think ultimately some of those were influenced by an owner who lacks any hockey knowledge but wanted to end drama and "fill the seats". Don't worry Francesco does notice the seats were empty in last years playoffs, the Ducks game and probably a couple more before this season concludes. However, if you honestly think the game should be in on any hockey based decision you are running with the Oilers in fantasy land.

 

I should note Francesco Aquilini is just a whipping boy. His father Luigi is the one who rose to stardom in the real estate market and business sectors of Burnaby and Vancouver. He has no more credentials than myself and some other members here when it comes to his education. It just so happens he is the one brother, of three, that is the Chairman and Govenor. Also to note that one of the main estates he has under him is now bankrupt from being mismanaged. Someone mentioned his divorce earlier, that to me can be left out of it with respect to him.

[sherifflobo 137]

Who is that? I would say Ekblad is a possible number one pick.

 

 

Sam Bennett

 

 

And the top half of the draft should be good.  Canucks should get a great player in the first round.

Edited April 11, 2014 by sherifflobo

[8Ovechkin8 262]

RE:Kendrick

 

When I said hiring a GM is purely a business move I hope you know I meant in the prospective of the owners.

Hiring a good GM, builds you a better team, better team, more wins, wins transfer into ticket sales and merchandise sales. Higher demand, leading to ability to raise prices, thus making more money. Saying something like "Well then go out and grab players that will win the cup" is a very blind statement. Who's to say they haven't tried? Who's to say cap constraints, future liabilities and player attitude has nothing to do with this. It's literally impossible in todays game to buy yourself a cup.

 

 

Your post like mine is full of ifs, buts, assumptions, and easier said then done statements which all in all, can't be fully assessed without knowing what fully goes on behind the scene.

 

Also I'd like to note that never said anything about ownership being apart of any hockey based decision. I was actually saying the opposite.

 

All in all my point here is while the ownership is somewhat responsible for this latest mess, it's unfair to discredit them and like you said, make them the whipping boys for something that the general public doesn't have full knowledge about.

It's like if I told you a math class average is 55%. High enough to pass, but too low to get you anywhere with. And with no other information I ask you who's fault is it, the teacher? Or the students?

Edited April 11, 2014 by 8Ovechkin8

[Guest Svoboda_3]

This draft is weak is it not? Ho-Sang, Ekblad, Reihnhart?

Leon Draisaitl, Micheal Dal Colle, Jake Virtanen, William Nylander, Nikolaj Ehlers to name a few. This draft is actually very good.

[Sandro 251]

Leon Draisaitl, Micheal Dal Colle, Jake Virtanen, William Nylander, Nikolaj Ehlers to name a few. This draft is actually very good.

 

As I understood it, this draft is supposed to be pretty top heavy, isn't it? Quite a few good players at the top, but not very deep.

[Higgins 3,618]

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA HERTL IS BACK!

 

[Munk 1,298]

If Calgary wins their last two games, Winnipeg gets two more points, and the Canucks lose out their final games they could drop to 14th in the conference. HELLO TOP 5 DRAFT PICK, YES I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE ONE OF THOSE PLEASE.

I don't think Calgary can pass you...

[Guest Svoboda_3]

As I understood it, this draft is supposed to be pretty top heavy, isn't it? Quite a few good players at the top, but not very deep.

The first 3 rounds will have good players. After that, it drops quite a bit. I'm just not so sure you will find the Zetterberg's of the world in the 6th or 7th.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

Leon Draisaitl, Micheal Dal Colle, Jake Virtanen, William Nylander, Nikolaj Ehlers to name a few. This draft is actually very good.

beat me too it, if the canucks can gran Draisaitl i would be so happy