Why are there no re-sims?

[Baozi 1,662]

Given that both teams I'm on have been screwed over by administrative mistakes that leads me to ask why are re-sims not done to rectify errors?

 

As shown in game 2 for the Titans and Games 2-4 for Ottawa. Why is there such reluctance to re-sim when literally the tools are there for VHL to do so? Its not even like grey as video replay where it relies on judgement, you literally can just re-sim for any errors conducted.

 

Like what is the policy for it and what is the threshold? If there is none, then why not implement one? like a GM challenge?

Edited August 1, 2018 by tfong

[jacobaa19 191]

I like this alot actually give the gms a choice for a resim if its possible then thats pretty cool

[Tyler 885]

It just opens up a can of worms. You'd have to have very strict rules about what is and isn't worth a resim IMO.

[Baozi 1,662]

Just now, Tyler said:

It just opens up a can of worms. You'd have to have very strict rules about what is and isn't worth a resim IMO.

That's fine though isn't it? A set of rules governing the use. I mean we don't have any rules around it currently. This isn't the first or last time an administrative mistake will occur.

[Tyler 885]

22 minutes ago, tfong said:

That's fine though isn't it? A set of rules governing the use. I mean we don't have any rules around it currently. This isn't the first or last time an administrative mistake will occur.

 

Sure. I just think it opens up a can of worms. Can we resim if I have a defenseman playing on the wrong pairing?

[Baozi 1,662]

28 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

Sure. I just think it opens up a can of worms. Can we resim if I have a defenseman playing on the wrong pairing?

 

If the lines loaded are reset or overwritten (which happens on accident when loading up the wrong file) or lines aren't what was submitted (before a set deadline of simming). I think its a legitimate arguement for a resim. 

 

I say specifically for administrative errors, like forgetting to check for line updates in emails or overwritten lines. Or because a player is on roster that should've been removed. Not because of GM induced error like "i forgot to set the lines".

Edited August 2, 2018 by tfong

[DollarAndADream 3,357]

I do think that a re-sim should be done if the simmer misses an email or something about lines. Lines are pretty important.

 

I mean, yeah, it would suck if you saw you won the cup......then the other team demands a re-sim and you lose. But it is what it is.

[omgitshim 903]

Resims are a tricky can of worms and should only really be done for major errors that greatly influence the games (and even then only during playoffs where every game is do or die; and only as long as it's done asap, ideally before the next sim). If the simmer doesn't set lines for one team but the other's are perfect or if one team is fully updated and the other is weeks behind, those are probably things that would fall into this niche because they are impactful mistakes that the teams/GMs had no control over. All simulators are fluky and crazy things can happen, but if there is a huge advantage earned because of a clerical error, that would be reasonable grounds.

[Higgins 3,618]

Pretty sure there should be a resim if the computer goalie plays a game in the playoffs. That's not a can of worms, not doing it is a can of worms.

[Will 4,662]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

Pretty sure there should be a resim if the computer goalie plays a game in the playoffs. That's not a can of worms, not doing it is a can of worms.

 

But when nobody tells me/i don't notice that the CPU plays in GM 2 until I after I sim GM 5, re-simming 4 games of both series' is going to be at least equally as worm-y. It's an unfortunate situation, at least partially my fault for not checking teams who didn't submit lines, but by the time anyone told me I don't think I could do much about it. 

 

Main problem with something like a GM challenge is that it's not possible to just re-sim a particular game or series. It's only possible to re-sim full days worth of sims, and even then only if there is a backup file at the right time to be found. There isn't a 're-sim tool', the only way we can re-sim is to roll back the league file to previously saved version. So you can't really have a system where one GM decides a re-sim has to happen that could potentially affect 3 other playoff teams. But it's also unnecessary, had I known the HSK G played before multiple other games were simmed, I would have re-simmed. But at the point when I find out with 3 more games simmed, I'm in a pretty impossible position where at least one team is going to be upset no matter what. It's also worth noting that, although not Higgins fault since he doesn't have internet atm, there were no HSK playoff lines or even end-of-season lines to deal with their backup, which contributed to what happened. 

 

As for Ottawa, I'm still not sure what the problem is? When DA sent lines he asked that I put the backup in for GM 3, isn't that what I did?

[Baozi 1,662]

2 hours ago, Will said:

 

But when nobody tells me/i don't notice that the CPU plays in GM 2 until I after I sim GM 5, re-simming 4 games of both series' is going to be at least equally as worm-y. It's an unfortunate situation, at least partially my fault for not checking teams who didn't submit lines, but by the time anyone told me I don't think I could do much about it. 

 

Main problem with something like a GM challenge is that it's not possible to just re-sim a particular game or series. It's only possible to re-sim full days worth of sims, and even then only if there is a backup file at the right time to be found. There isn't a 're-sim tool', the only way we can re-sim is to roll back the league file to previously saved version. So you can't really have a system where one GM decides a re-sim has to happen that could potentially affect 3 other playoff teams. But it's also unnecessary, had I known the HSK G played before multiple other games were simmed, I would have re-simmed. But at the point when I find out with 3 more games simmed, I'm in a pretty impossible position where at least one team is going to be upset no matter what. It's also worth noting that, although not Higgins fault since he doesn't have internet atm, there were no HSK playoff lines or even end-of-season lines to deal with their backup, which contributed to what happened. 

 

As for Ottawa, I'm still not sure what the problem is? When DA sent lines he asked that I put the backup in for GM 3, isn't that what I did?

 

Re-sim policy for future could include a set time limit for the challenge. In the case of a GM challenge though I also think the GM holds responsibility like having due diligence for lines and what not. Like i said, we should build these into a policy for the future.

 

As for Ottawa, it wasn't a goalie issue but that the player lines which had my player Tzuyu play on the proper lines in game one, weren't carried over to games 2-4 because of what I think is a line overwrite.

[Higgins 3,618]

4 hours ago, Will said:

 

But when nobody tells me/i don't notice that the CPU plays in GM 2 until I after I sim GM 5, re-simming 4 games of both series' is going to be at least equally as worm-y. It's an unfortunate situation, at least partially my fault for not checking teams who didn't submit lines, but by the time anyone told me I don't think I could do much about it. 

 

Main problem with something like a GM challenge is that it's not possible to just re-sim a particular game or series. It's only possible to re-sim full days worth of sims, and even then only if there is a backup file at the right time to be found. There isn't a 're-sim tool', the only way we can re-sim is to roll back the league file to previously saved version. So you can't really have a system where one GM decides a re-sim has to happen that could potentially affect 3 other playoff teams. But it's also unnecessary, had I known the HSK G played before multiple other games were simmed, I would have re-simmed. But at the point when I find out with 3 more games simmed, I'm in a pretty impossible position where at least one team is going to be upset no matter what. It's also worth noting that, although not Higgins fault since he doesn't have internet atm, there were no HSK playoff lines or even end-of-season lines to deal with their backup, which contributed to what happened. 

 

As for Ottawa, I'm still not sure what the problem is? When DA sent lines he asked that I put the backup in for GM 3, isn't that what I did?

 

Is okay I forgive you

 

More of a response to Tyler saying ''tis a can of worms, when it's out of my control.

[Will 4,662]

25 minutes ago, Higgins said:

 

Is okay I forgive you

 

More of a response to Tyler saying ''tis a can of worms, when it's out of my control.

 

ill rig you a few next year 

 

i hear your internet is coming soon, thank god 

[Baozi 1,662]

So...make policy then?

[Spade18 1,308]

Honestly, even though NYA got a bit screwed over by no resims in the playoffs this year with the back up goalie, I'm still in favor of a hardline on Resims, unless the blue team/simmers step in and decide otherwise.

 

If we allow some resims in certain circumstances, people are gonna try to abuse the fuck out of it and call for resims when ever the chips dont fall their way.

 

I remember a GM league I was in years ago fell apart because there were parameters for resims, and every time someone lost they called for a resim, and when they didnt get their way, they would leave the league...

 

I just think its more of a hassle than its worth.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Not sure if entirely related, but I also don't think asking the simmer to change lines or check goalies is acceptable. Should be up to the GM or another member of the team to send the appropriate file. 

[Baozi 1,662]

6 hours ago, Spade18 said:

Honestly, even though NYA got a bit screwed over by no resims in the playoffs this year with the back up goalie, I'm still in favor of a hardline on Resims, unless the blue team/simmers step in and decide otherwise.

 

If we allow some resims in certain circumstances, people are gonna try to abuse the fuck out of it and call for resims when ever the chips dont fall their way.

 

I remember a GM league I was in years ago fell apart because there were parameters for resims, and every time someone lost they called for a resim, and when they didnt get their way, they would leave the league...

 

I just think its more of a hassle than its worth.

 

Isn't this more on the GMs we allowed to get picked than the rules?

[Spade18 1,308]

59 minutes ago, tfong said:

 

Isn't this more on the GMs we allowed to get picked than the rules?

 

It doesnt matter who the GM is, it would leave room for doubt, or another possible path.  By nature we're competitive people.  Say what you will about it just being a sim but it's a sports sim, everyone is looking for any edge they can get.  That I'm not saying "The GMs we have right now are shitty people and will abuse this rule" what i'm saying is there might be someone eventually who works their way up to a GM role, and cares more about winning than the community here, and they will bitch and moan every single time they lose a close playoff game or something like that.  And god forbid it's something where it's a real non issue, but BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, we have to resim.  Then the next time something that wasn't REALLY covered in the rules, but kinda falls into the language of a rule happens, and the powers that be decide "no we will not resim." then BOOM half the board is like "OHEHMGEE YOU RESIMMED FOR THEM WHY NOT FOR US!?!?!?! FAVORITISM. RIGGED. IM GOING TO BRING THIS UP EVERY TIME THERE IS THE MOST MINOR ISSUE WITH SOMEONE INVOLVED ON THE OTHER SIDE" and it just becomes a point of contention rather than a fail safe like it was supposed to be.  and this is just one possible scenario.

 

I dont think in the short term it would be an issue, cause everyone would know exactly why it was implemented, but I think in the long term, once we've lost sight of exactly the reason why we implemented it, it would do more damage than good.

[Baozi 1,662]

Bump for commishes to seee