Milestones (Retention increase)

[Beketov 9,026]

4 minutes ago, Quik said:

 

You underestimate people's tendency to find the best way to exploit circumstances.

This. i’ve seen it for 12 years now. People will start with whatever they want but if it means missing out on some TPE you’ll see the trend quickly go towards the meta. Kinda like how everyone retires at the deadline now because it give you that extra quarter season jolt of earning. Everything will come down to TPE, it always does. If we give people a huge amount of options they’ll all end up with the same choice.

 

As I said, I’m not against giving some build choice with these if you want to tailor your tiers to your build but I don’t think choosing 1 and getting rewarded for it is the best option because everyone will just pick the easiest.

 

FWIW as well I wonder if the choice shouldn’t be after the draft instead of at creation. just wouldn’t want to overwhelm a new member with a bunch of choices they don’t understand right off the hop.

[Beaviss 4,957]

8 minutes ago, Quik said:

 

You underestimate people's tendency to find the best way to exploit circumstances.

 

yeah but for the low cost of 30 TPE you can increase retention and give people some more stuff to write about with more flavor.

[Beketov 9,026]

3 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

yeah but for the low cost of 30 TPE you can increase retention and give people some more stuff to write about with more flavor.

I fail to see how it adds more flavour than simply having packs of tiers geared towards different builds. You get the same flavour without having everyone picking the easiest option automatically.

[Beaviss 4,957]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I fail to see how it adds more flavour than simply having packs of tiers geared towards different builds. You get the same flavour without having everyone picking the easiest option automatically.

 

Dont have an easy option then.

 

forwards

50 goals

50 assists

100 hits

50 shot blocks

 

Defence

30 goals

40 Assists

150 Hits

100 Shot blocks

 

Goalies:

 

20 Wins

3 Shutouts

800 total saves

 

 

[Beketov 9,026]

Just now, Beaviss said:

 

Dont have an easy option then.

 

forwards

50 goals

50 assists

100 hits

50 shot blocks

 

Defence

30 goals

40 Assists

150 Hits

100 Shot blocks

 

Goalies:

 

20 Wins

3 Shutouts

800 total saves

 

 

At that point I deem it less interesting. Why have just 1 thing to hit when you can have multiple things to earn the TPE? Gives more stuff to aim for which means more interest overall. 

 

Also it’s at least twice as easy to get 100 hits as it is to get 50 goals so there will always ben an easier option, even if you remove the really easy ones. I don’t see a benefit to choosing a single item over choosing a pack and having all be required to advance through the tiers.

[Quik 4,113]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

This. i’ve seen it for 12 years now. People will start with whatever they want but if it means missing out on some TPE you’ll see the trend quickly go towards the meta. Kinda like how everyone retires at the deadline now because it give you that extra quarter season jolt of earning. Everything will come down to TPE, it always does. If we give people a huge amount of options they’ll all end up with the same choice. 

 

As I said, I’m not against giving some build choice with these if you want to tailor your tiers to your build but I don’t think choosing 1 and getting rewarded for it is the best option because everyone will just pick the easiest.

 

FWIW as well I wonder if the choice shouldn’t be after the draft instead of at creation. just wouldn’t want to overwhelm a new member with a bunch of choices they don’t understand right off the hop.

 

 

I agree with post-draft. Also, maybe instead of blanket tiers, we make it a grab-bag for each tier, something like A/B/C, and if you select the first option in A, you can't select the first option in B or C?

 

TIER 1 = 5 TPE

Selection A = (1) 1 Full Season | (2) 5 Playoff Games | (3) 10 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 30 Assists | (2) 50 Points | (3) 30 Goals

Selection C = (1) 50 Hits | (2) 5 GWG | (3) 50 SB

 

So, you have the ability to select A1/B2/C3, or A1/B3/C2, etc. (6 options for each tier) where it's all options that are hit fairly easily, early in a career, but not so easy that a meta is formed for everyone, and it gets more difficult as you reach each tier (meaning 216 possible combinations).

 

TIER 2 = 10 TPE

Selection A = (1) 3 Full Seasons | (2) 15 Playoff Games | (3) 30 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 120 Assists | (2) 200 Points | (3) 100 Goals

Selection C = (1) 300 Hits | (2) 15 GWG | (3) 350 SB

 

TIER 2 = 15 TPE

Selection A = (1) 5 Full Seasons | (2) 45 Playoff Games | (3) 60 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 250 Assists | (2) 500 Points | (3) 200 Goals

Selection C = (1) 600 Hits | (2) 20 GWG | (3) 750 SB

 

Obviously, things could be adjusted/add more options, but just a visual of what it could be

[Beaviss 4,957]

5 minutes ago, Quik said:

 

 

I agree with post-draft. Also, maybe instead of blanket tiers, we make it a grab-bag for each tier, something like A/B/C, and if you select the first option in A, you can't select the first option in B or C?

 

TIER 1 = 5 TPE

Selection A = (1) 1 Full Season | (2) 5 Playoff Games | (3) 10 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 30 Assists | (2) 50 Points | (3) 30 Goals

Selection C = (1) 50 Hits | (2) 5 GWG | (3) 50 SB

 

So, you have the ability to select A1/B2/C3, or A1/B3/C2, etc. (6 options for each tier) where it's all options that are hit fairly easily, early in a career, but not so easy that a meta is formed for everyone, and it gets more difficult as you reach each tier (meaning 216 possible combinations).

 

TIER 2 = 10 TPE

Selection A = (1) 3 Full Seasons | (2) 15 Playoff Games | (3) 30 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 120 Assists | (2) 200 Points | (3) 100 Goals

Selection C = (1) 300 Hits | (2) 15 GWG | (3) 350 SB

 

TIER 2 = 15 TPE

Selection A = (1) 5 Full Seasons | (2) 45 Playoff Games | (3) 60 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 250 Assists | (2) 500 Points | (3) 200 Goals

Selection C = (1) 600 Hits | (2) 20 GWG | (3) 750 SB

 

Obviously, things could be adjusted/add more options, but just a visual of what it could be

 

I like it!

[Rayzor_7 741]

5 minutes ago, Quik said:

 

 

I agree with post-draft. Also, maybe instead of blanket tiers, we make it a grab-bag for each tier, something like A/B/C, and if you select the first option in A, you can't select the first option in B or C?

 

TIER 1 = 5 TPE

Selection A = (1) 1 Full Season | (2) 5 Playoff Games | (3) 10 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 30 Assists | (2) 50 Points | (3) 30 Goals

Selection C = (1) 50 Hits | (2) 5 GWG | (3) 50 SB

 

So, you have the ability to select A1/B2/C3, or A1/B3/C2, etc. (6 options for each tier) where it's all options that are hit fairly easily, early in a career, but not so easy that a meta is formed for everyone, and it gets more difficult as you reach each tier (meaning 216 possible combinations).

 

TIER 2 = 10 TPE

Selection A = (1) 3 Full Seasons | (2) 15 Playoff Games | (3) 30 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 120 Assists | (2) 200 Points | (3) 100 Goals

Selection C = (1) 300 Hits | (2) 15 GWG | (3) 350 SB

 

TIER 2 = 15 TPE

Selection A = (1) 5 Full Seasons | (2) 45 Playoff Games | (3) 60 Playoff Games

Selection B =  (1) 250 Assists | (2) 500 Points | (3) 200 Goals

Selection C = (1) 600 Hits | (2) 20 GWG | (3) 750 SB

 

Obviously, things could be adjusted/add more options, but just a visual of what it could be

 

I can very much see this working! Making multiple requirements and not making any easy would push people to want to get better.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Beketov said:

This. i’ve seen it for 12 years now. People will start with whatever they want but if it means missing out on some TPE you’ll see the trend quickly go towards the meta. Kinda like how everyone retires at the deadline now because it give you that extra quarter season jolt of earning. Everything will come down to TPE, it always does. If we give people a huge amount of options they’ll all end up with the same choice.

 

As I said, I’m not against giving some build choice with these if you want to tailor your tiers to your build but I don’t think choosing 1 and getting rewarded for it is the best option because everyone will just pick the easiest.

 

FWIW as well I wonder if the choice shouldn’t be after the draft instead of at creation. just wouldn’t want to overwhelm a new member with a bunch of choices they don’t understand right off the hop.

 

Off Topic:

Seeing Archetypes like the EFL does would make for a bit less parity at the top and an interesting choice to be made. Has this been talked about before or should a new thread for this be made?

[Beketov 9,026]

Just now, Rayzor_7 said:

Seeing Archetypes like the EFL does would make for a bit less parity at the top and an interesting choice to be made. Has this been talked about before or should a new thread for this be made?

It’s been talked about a bunch of times. The main problem is that our builds can’t realistically be as diverse with the engine we use. For example, making a playmaker archetype makes no sense because you get basically as many assists while aiming to be a sniper. I didn’t add anything to passing until my 5th off-season and have been basically even on goals to assist ratio my whole career. So it would add the illusion of choice while really just limiting stats arbitrarily and forcing everyone into the same archetype meta because of the aforementioned “everyone will do whatever to get ahead"

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

56 minutes ago, Beketov said:

FWIW as well I wonder if the choice shouldn’t be after the draft instead of at creation. just wouldn’t want to overwhelm a new member with a bunch of choices they don’t understand right off the hop.

 

Seeing it are VHL milestones, this would definitely make sense.

[Beaviss 4,957]

It would be cool to have a prompt on the portal to set up your "Milestones" after your drafted. Would be cool if you could add some sort of visual Bar being loaded depending on how far you are towards your goals.

 

 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

How does this increase retention? It just seems like a TPE grab to me.

 

I don't see how being able to claim 5 extra TPE for my player scoring 50 goals is going to make me stick around or not.

[Beketov 9,026]

2 hours ago, flyersfan1453 said:

How does this increase retention? It just seems like a TPE grab to me.

 

I don't see how being able to claim 5 extra TPE for my player scoring 50 goals is going to make me stick around or not.

Think of how members are these days. A lot of the time they do stuff purely to get paid for it. If you think about it, once someone leaves the VHLM the majority of their extra earning potential disappears and they have to kinda fall into the regular routine. This would theoretically add some extra bonuses to look forward to.

[omgitshim 902]

The people that should be targeted for retention are newer players and those who are trending towards inactivity. So you have to think: what situations internally cause players to go inactive in the first place? For the most part, those main reasons are playing for a losing team or their player not playing well or not getting enough playing time. With stat based milestones, the players who are going to achieve those first are the ones who are already ahead and likely more active. So the players who aren't doing well or aren't getting the chance are already getting less stats, and now they see they are falling even more behind in TPE.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but I think it would have the opposite effect on retention than intended.

[Beaviss 4,957]

8 minutes ago, omgitshim said:

The people that should be targeted for retention are newer players and those who are trending towards inactivity. So you have to think: what situations internally cause players to go inactive in the first place? For the most part, those main reasons are playing for a losing team or their player not playing well or not getting enough playing time. With stat based milestones, the players who are going to achieve those first are the ones who are already ahead and likely more active. So the players who aren't doing well or aren't getting the chance are already getting less stats, and now they see they are falling even more behind in TPE.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but I think it would have the opposite effect on retention than intended.

 

See I disagree the players that will be drafted to the bad teams will have an advantage. See Shane Mars for example compaired to HHH. Giving the rebuilding teams almost a boost when it comes to hitting the milestones. That is also something for a struggling teams players to look forward to and strive to hit other than just getting stomped every night.