League Shakeup Pitch

[ctots 400]

This is my league shakeup pitch. There are a few forces at play here that I think we could resolve or reduce with my methods. I’ll do my best to structure this in a way that makes sense. Bear with me, I’ve only had two cups of coffee this morning.

 

Pain Points

 

Recreates are much ‘safer’ high draft picks than first generation players, and as such get preferential treatment in the M draft.

 

The VHLE is the catch basin for players who earned at some point but are now inactive, basically. It’s being intentionally avoided by max earners, and it feels like there is an identity crisis going on to some degree.

 

There is absolutely no parity among teams within a league. Teams are either making a cup run or selling as much as they can to collect resources for future seasons, and the result is that many games of the season aren’t really competitive at all.

 

The Shakeup

 

I am suggesting the VHL move the VHLM and VHLE to exist as two separate minor leagues: the VHLM for first generation players, the VHLE for recreates. They would both roster players from 0 TPE up to 350 TPE. These leagues would draft separately, and the VHL would draft from each league independently. This is a super straightforward idea, so I don’t really need to elaborate on this too much further, I don’t think. Instead, let’s discuss how this change would resolve the pain points outlined above.

 

The Aftermath

 

In post-shakeup society, there is a first gen player going 1OA in two drafts per season. League participation has never been higher by new players. They’re competing with and against their contemporaries instead of veterans who have been involved for 10+ years. VHLM players can look to the VHLE as a goal for their next player, further incentive to stick with the VHL.

 

The VHLE is reinvigorated through the influx of active players. Locker rooms go from dead to functional, rivalries happen, and players who earn at any pace are going to be valuable to their team.

 

Potential Problems

 

Maybe STHS doesn’t do that. There’s fully the possibility that the implementation I’m suggesting would be impossible, and I accept that.

Waiver pitching to recreates. Obviously if you pitch to recreates, they’re most likely going to stack a team and just win a cup, right? Introducing: ordered waivers. It’s a thing everyone knows about, but (afaik) there isn’t any implementation in the VHL at this time. Maybe you do the same thing with the VHLM for the sake of consistency, but that wouldn’t necessarily have to be the case.

 

Not enough recreates. I guess it might be possible that there aren’t enough recreates to support an entire league? That doesn’t really feel correct though, since there are some teams this season which are heavily rostered by bot players.

 

No veteran locker room presence. I would argue that while this is true, it would put more value on the GM and AGM influence in the locker room. This would be a good justification for turning the AGM from a “maybe do a press conference sometimes” position into more of a “you’re responsible for the locker room, helping players navigate the site, access resources they need, etc” support role, which would (imo) result in them earning TPE for their work.

 

Conclusion

 

Hooray, ctots saved the day! What a genius! We love ctots!
 

[Beketov 8,731]

20 minutes ago, ctots said:

Maybe STHS doesn’t do that. There’s fully the possibility that the implementation I’m suggesting would be impossible, and I accept that.

Each league is run as it’s own sim so STHS actually isn’t a factor at all. It’ll just take whatever players we plug into it.

[Ricer13 2,646]

   I personally would take a super active first gen over a recreate any day of the week. I know that there aren’t enough people who think similarly tho. M is about retention so focus should be on the new members. 
 

I wonder if having a first gen draft and then a recreate draft would be a better solution just for the M. Almost like an import draft and it’ll allow recreates to be balanced across the teams better.

[ctots 400]

9 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

   I personally would take a super active first gen over a recreate any day of the week. I know that there aren’t enough people who think similarly tho. M is about retention so focus should be on the new members. 
 

I wonder if having a first gen draft and then a recreate draft would be a better solution just for the M. Almost like an import draft and it’ll allow recreates to be balanced across the teams better.

 

I think you're right to prefer a super active first gen, but it's definitely not an opinion that everyone shares. A first gen draft and a recreate draft is a pretty solid middle ground between what currently exists and the suggestion I made, and it would probably resolve increase parity and competition within the M.

[Shindigs 1,771]

1 hour ago, Ricer13 said:

I wonder if having a first gen draft and then a recreate draft would be a better solution just for the M. Almost like an import draft and it’ll allow recreates to be balanced across the teams better.

I've brought this up a lot, since my first season in the league. But always fallen on deaf ears so far at least.

 

@ctotsupdate your player in the EFL! Our GM told me to yell at you do so, figured this is as good a time as any.

[ctots 400]

14 minutes ago, Shindigs said:

@ctotsupdate your player in the EFL! Our GM told me to yell at you do so, figured this is as good a time as any.

 

I tried my best, but I can't muster a single molecule of interest in football. I'm sorry!

[Shindigs 1,771]

12 minutes ago, ctots said:

 

I tried my best, but I can't muster a single molecule of interest in football. I'm sorry!

Fair enough

[MubbleFubbles 1,232]

6 hours ago, ctots said:

Not enough recreates. I guess it might be possible that there aren’t enough recreates to support an entire league? That doesn’t really feel correct though, since there are some teams this season which are heavily rostered by bot players.
 

So I was able to grab some numbers from my recent look into how many players stall at the VHLE level. Each recent draft class (since Season 73) has brought in a minimum of 18 recreates that have gone on to exceed 200 TPE, and an average of 25 recreates that have eventually gone over 200 TPE per class. So, if you were to times that by two since most players will have a full M season and then an E season (and even those that skip the E would be largely off-set by the numbers of recreates who spend a second season in the E currently), you're talking around a minimum of 36, average of 50 recreates that would eventually get over 200 TPE that would be in your league system at a given time, and that doesn't even account for those who go inactive in the 200-400 TPE range that would stick around for longer.

 

In short since I've just vomited a bunch of numbers out, I don't think there's enough recreates to fill an E league that has 8 teams, but I think there's definitely enough that you could do a 5-6 team VHLE league with what you're proposing.

Edited October 6, 2022 by MubbleFubbles

[rory 1,781]

i think a good shakeup pitch is a screwball. not very popular in the modern game.

[frescoelmo 1,227]

5 hours ago, ctots said:

 

I tried my best, but I can't muster a single molecule of interest in football. I'm sorry!

 

I understand how u feel

[Pifferfish 361]

How about to off-set the risks of drafting first gens we instead institute compensatory draft picks. Not even sure that possible. But the idea would be if a first gen player is picked and doesn't reach certain TPE benchmarks in their time with the team, you get an extra pick after the round in which they were drafted. So a 1st round FG that fizzles would net the team another pick I'm between round 1 and 2

[Spartan 4,097]

8 minutes ago, Pifferfish said:

How about to off-set the risks of drafting first gens we instead institute compensatory draft picks. Not even sure that possible. But the idea would be if a first gen player is picked and doesn't reach certain TPE benchmarks in their time with the team, you get an extra pick after the round in which they were drafted. So a 1st round FG that fizzles would net the team another pick I'm between round 1 and 2

Sorry to instantly dunk on your idea, but this sort of system rewards teams if their first-gens go IA. We will not create any sort of system which provides incentives for teams to allow first-gens to fizzle out and stop earning or leave the league. First-gens aren't "riskier," they are the primary group the VHLM is oriented towards. Those new members are the ones who need to be given time, resources and energy to help them understand and enjoy the league. 

[Achilles 91]

I am suggesting the VHL move the VHLM and VHLE to exist as two separate minor leagues: the VHLM for first generation players, the VHLE for recreates. 

 

great idea man! let's put someone like me, a first gen player who earns as much TPE as I can weekly, in a group of people who are inactive. way to get first gen players excited to play!  (sarcasm)

[Spartan 4,097]

5 minutes ago, Achilles said:

great idea man! let's put someone like me, a first gen player who earns as much TPE as I can weekly, in a group of people who are inactive. way to get first gen players excited to play!  (sarcasm)

I don't agree with the idea pitched here, but just a reminder that IA players are not allowed in the VHLM. You won't find any on any teams' rosters, we check weekly and tell teams to drop players who go IA.

[N0HBDY 1,022]

The VHLE isn’t even being avoided by max earners anymore, the difference between the E and M now is the amount of TPE you can apply. This might’ve been true back when practice facility was just 1 in the E so it was preferred to stay in the M to earn that extra 1 tpe per week. But now it’s just a choice of if they want to play there are not if they’re eligible to skip the M, know and have seen plenty of max earners come to the E over the M

[Achilles 91]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

I don't agree with the idea pitched here, but just a reminder that IA players are not allowed in the VHLM. You won't find any on any teams' rosters, we check weekly and tell teams to drop players who go IA.

Thank goodness for you guys honestly. I like the fair approach.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Achilles

[Spartan 4,097]

Just now, Achilles said:

Thank goodness for you guys honestly.

[MubbleFubbles 1,232]

@ctots Just cause I like looking at theoretical What If scenarios, here's what your E league could look like based on recreates who are currently in the E and M from S82-S86 (Doesn't include the recent S87 recreates)

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by MubbleFubbles

[Achilles 91]

9 minutes ago, Spartan said:

[Achilles 91]

31 minutes ago, MubbleFubbles said:

@ctots Just cause I like looking at theoretical What If scenarios, here's what your E league could look like based on recreates who are currently in the E and M from S82-S86 (Doesn't include the recent S87 recreates)

 

 

I am not on the list

[Spartan 4,097]

Just now, Achilles said:

recreates

^Should be from "Mubbles"

 

Just now, Achilles said:

I am not on the list

You're a first-gen

Edited October 6, 2022 by Spartan

[Achilles 91]

Just now, Spartan said:

^Should be from "Mubbles"

 

You're a first-gen

oh my mistake haha. but this is a very interesting list. I love things like this. I am a numbers guy

[Pifferfish 361]

49 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Sorry to instantly dunk on your idea, but this sort of system rewards teams if their first-gens go IA. We will not create any sort of system which provides incentives for teams to allow first-gens to fizzle out and stop earning or leave the league. First-gens aren't "riskier," they are the primary group the VHLM is oriented towards. Those new members are the ones who need to be given time, resources and energy to help them understand and enjoy the league. 

No no, no need to apologize. I'm just merely responding to the ideas put out there, I think first gens being under prioritized is an issue, and I don't think this rewards letting them fizzle. It's better to have a first gen work hard and be a good active member of your team. Not every GM may feel that way but then they simply aren't worthy of the job. I think a lot of fizzling issue come down to two factors, tough navigation on the forums (which if you are someone who doesn't use forums at all can be kind of a lot to learn) and poor LR environments. I think more principally these two areas need to be addressed aggressively. But it also it's kind of frustrating to see the priority put on recreates by a lot of teams. Like as a first gen I would be annoyed if teams took recreates over me just because they are recreates. I think overall this a is a more nuanced discussion that I'm not totally qualified to speak wholely on but I will offer observations as a new member to this community to kind of give some perspective on the experience of a new player today. I think maybe it would just be better to allow recreates to instantly go to the VHLE? Which may sound shitty but idk, just an idea that I thought of while typing this. Totally no thought into the outcomes of that literally just came up with it. Sorry this was long...

 

TLDR I think what you are saying is valid just I'm responding to the idea of splitting the two groups being a somewhat bad idea and if this were an issue then this is a solution despite its own issue.

[JCarson 623]

As another option, would it be possible to roll back the concept of the VHLE.  Merge the VHLM and VHLE into one, cap TPA at 400 and plan on players staying in the minors for 2-3 years.

I like veteran players and first gens co-existing.  I think there would be a lot of good things that could happen to increase competition in the minor league, actually make drafting and trading of value and would increase the excitement factor for everyone.  It potentially would increase first gen retention.

 

You could have a 16 team VHLM feeding a 16 team VHL.

Edited October 6, 2022 by JCarson

[Achilles 91]

1 hour ago, Pifferfish said:

No no, no need to apologize. I'm just merely responding to the ideas put out there, I think first gens being under prioritized is an issue, and I don't think this rewards letting them fizzle. It's better to have a first gen work hard and be a good active member of your team. Not every GM may feel that way but then they simply aren't worthy of the job. I think a lot of fizzling issue come down to two factors, tough navigation on the forums (which if you are someone who doesn't use forums at all can be kind of a lot to learn) and poor LR environments. I think more principally these two areas need to be addressed aggressively. But it also it's kind of frustrating to see the priority put on recreates by a lot of teams. Like as a first gen I would be annoyed if teams took recreates over me just because they are recreates. I think overall this a is a more nuanced discussion that I'm not totally qualified to speak wholely on but I will offer observations as a new member to this community to kind of give some perspective on the experience of a new player today. I think maybe it would just be better to allow recreates to instantly go to the VHLE? Which may sound shitty but idk, just an idea that I thought of while typing this. Totally no thought into the outcomes of that literally just came up with it. Sorry this was long...

 

TLDR I think what you are saying is valid just I'm responding to the idea of splitting the two groups being a somewhat bad idea and if this were an issue then this is a solution despite its own issue.

now when you put it this, way. I agree with this. But personally, I would have it that the recreates all go to teams like miss. to balance out the board instead of them all basically signing in mexico and going to win a cup. To have them all go to VHLE I disagree there but i like that it's a thought. When the recreates do join the league, It's an orchestrated plan that destroys the VHLM for new players. at least from my experience so far. Your ideas aren't horrible and I like that you are addressing things that us new players have a hard time saying. I was hoping one recreate would have joined my team but no, mainly mexico. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Achilles