Stockholm Announcing new Co-GM

[JardyB10 4,865]

20 minutes ago, gregreg said:

I'm hiring Solas then and I'll give him the job in a couple seasons 

You're just opening up a loop hole you don't have to. Jack is the GM now and boubabi can help him but is not the GM 

This is basically correct. We're not opening any loopholes. I've explicitly told boubabi that all Stockholm transactions MUST be officially signed off by Jack. I don't care who negotiates trades, or runs drafts, or does lines, or little things like that. But as far as I'm concerned, and something I've tried to make clear, is that Jack is at least "51% GM."

 

If you would have made solas GM/majority co-GM last week or before the deadline, or at least made any kind of plans with us, that would have been fine. But as soon as S50 hit, and Axelsson would have been officially on Cologne, Jarvi would need to be traded, as per how we've done nearly every succession ever.

 

I don't see how it's a loophole. As far as I know we've always allowed the option of a co-GM. But obviously one of the GMs needs to be the "official"/"player" GM. That is now Jack.

[JardyB10 4,865]

I also feel like people seem to forgetting that GMs new players aren't actually "officially" on their team until their "draft year." For example, if Toast were to step down TODAY, Ilya Kaprilkov would NOT still be on Riga. He would be put in the draft. That has precedence, and that is always how it's been.

[Will 4,660]

22 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said:

I wonder how @Gooningitup feels about Stockholm getting their GM for free when he had to give up a high 1st for himself. Still makes absolutely no sense to me, especially since Stockholm will now be able to trade Boubabi for a good pick if they desire. So Davos GM succession = -1 1st rounder, while Stockholm succession = +1 1st rounder.

 

I'm admittedly on the fence about the co-GM aspect of all this, but at the core this GM transition is different than the Davos situation your describing and should be treated differently. 

 

Jackim's player is still on Stockholm and if the deadline recreate date was where it usually was, he wouldn't have been retired yet. For that reason I would consider this to be an internal GM change, no different than say: Higgins steps down from Helsinki GM, profits from trading Tukio (and Osborne on top of that) and names STZ as GM. Helsinki get's Jake Wylde, no questions asked. 

 

I am sorry for Gooning/Davos, but the position of the blue team even before my time has been that internal GM transitions are treated differently than external GM transitions, especially when they're one day before the draft of said GM. 

 

The Co-GM part is what I assume is throwing most people off, and understandably so, but a further item to note is that just like any other GM transition, Karnage and Jackim's player will never be allowed to play on the same team. Which means and Karnage + boubabi must go by the time Jackim's player hits VHL, at the latest. 

[eaglesfan036 4,599]

28 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Jack was named GM of Stockholm. Boubabi is helping him out for a season or two. What is the fucking big deal? How is it any different than how 95% of league GM switches have always worked? If AIM-11 was active and you named him GM, his player would automatically go to Calgary when he re-created. Would have that been an issue?

But id have to pay a draft pick for his gm player recreate because you guys used to always demand compensation but now apparently all of a sudden we are switching that

[JardyB10 4,865]

10 minutes ago, eaglesfan036 said:

But id have to pay a draft pick for his gm player recreate because you guys used to always demand compensation but now apparently all of a sudden we are switching that

That has never been a thing. Toronto, Seattle, Cologne. That was all, and they sucked. Before his GM player reached Calgary, he would have to trade Tebowgow if he were there. Since you've re-created though, what would actually happen is Gowecny would be placed into the draft.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Question, Gooning's player was on Davos and he created a new player who became property of Davos once Ahma stepped down. So why was he forced to select his player again?

[boubabi 4,725]

No idea. Had to trade valmount immediately I guess

[Kendrick 4,741]

Wouldn't make sense then, tis the exact same situation here because Jack's player would go to Stockholm and they should have to forfeit a 7th overall area pick. Blue team made up that thing last time, so should be in effect.

[Will 4,660]

It's not the exact same situation. Vladimir Komarov had been retired for much longer than Jackim's player has been, in fact it wasn't until 1 day before the draft of his new player that Gooning took over Davos. There was no plans for him to take over (due to Ahma's abrupt departure) and thus we really couldn't just yank a player out of the draft

1 day prior to it without taking something.

 

Unfortunate, yes, but as we keep repeating: these messy situations where GM's completely bail and we have to take someone externally (and in the Davos case, 1 day before other teams may have been planning on drafting him) should and will be treated differently than organized transitions. 

 

Like I said, I'm not a fan of the Co-GM aspect of this, but aside from that there shouldn't be anything to complain about in this transition. Seattle, Toronto, Davos are 3 cases where the GMs left the team completely hanging and we had to find people elsewhere. You can compare them against each other, but to compare them to this isn't a fair comparison IMO.

 

 

 

[Kendrick 4,741]

Well until he is named full-time GM, his player should still be listed a draftee. If not, than there is no "Co" title to his name. Only one player can be attached the franchise as a GM player at a given time (regardless of VHL or VHLM rights)

[Will 4,660]

22 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Well until he is named full-time GM, his player should still be listed a draftee. If not, than there is no "Co" title to his name.

 

That's essentially the case, as the rule states here: If anything were to happen between now and the S50 draft that caused Jackim to not become the GM, his player would simply be entered into the draft just as a normal player would be. You can look at it the other way if you like and assume that he'll be a draftee until he's actually GM, but really it makes little difference. He's still on the S50 draftee list as of now. 

 

22 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Only one player can be attached the franchise as a GM player at a given time (regardless of VHL or VHLM rights)

 

Basically correct but to clarify: the rule is that no two GM-players that were created for the same team can ever play on the same roster, whether that roster is the team that they were created for or not. This means that even if Jackim was the full-time GM right now, it would be legal for Karnage to remain on the STO roster until the S50 draft when Jackim's player becomes officially part of the roster. At that point, Karnage would have to go immediately. 

[Evans 305]

Kinda confusing but it seems like Davos got hit on the head twice in this equation. A GM abruptly steps down and they had to sacrifice a pick to get their new guy. Wouldn't you want the team that's essentially getting put in a tough position to be the one to keep their pick? Or is keeping the pick a reward for having a plan in place?

[Kendrick 4,741]

31 minutes ago, Draper said:

 

That's essentially the case, as the rule states here: If anything were to happen between now and the S50 draft that caused Jackim to not become the GM, his player would simply be entered into the draft just as a normal player would be. You can look at it the other way if you like and assume that he'll be a draftee until he's actually GM, but really it makes little difference. He's still on the S50 draftee list as of now. 

 

 

Basically correct but to clarify: the rule is that no two GM-players that were created for the same team can ever play on the same roster, whether that roster is the team that they were created for or not. This means that even if Jackim was the full-time GM right now, it would be legal for Karnage to remain on the STO roster until the S50 draft when Jackim's player becomes officially part of the roster. At that point, Karnage would have to go immediately. 

Oh I understand the rule. My point was that until he is listed as the Full GM, his player remains as a draftee. If that point of him becoming GM is at the end of this season than Stockholm should then have to use their pick to draft him because it happened closer to the draft. So in a sense it does make a huge difference. Not sure why he isn't named full GM now, but because he isn't they should have to forfeit a pick to acquire him. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

5 minutes ago, Evans said:

Kinda confusing but it seems like Davos got hit on the head twice in this equation. A GM abruptly steps down and they had to sacrifice a pick to get their new guy. Wouldn't you want the team that's essentially getting put in a tough position to be the one to keep their pick? Or is keeping the pick a reward for having a plan in place?

You'd think, but for some reason that mindset got thrown out the window.

[Will 4,660]

8 minutes ago, Evans said:

Wouldn't you want the team that's essentially getting put in a tough position to be the one to keep their pick?

 

Ideally, you would. The problem in cases like Davos is the damage that taking a player out of the draft causes to other teams - for example with Davos, it was only 1 day before the day he was supposed to be drafted that he got named GM. That messes up other teams drafting plans and takes a draft-able player right out from under them, and that's why the team getting the player needs to give up some compensation in those cases.

 

It's by no means a perfect system, though.

[Will 4,660]

4 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Oh I understand the rule. My point was that until he is listed as the Full GM, his player remains as a draftee. If that point of him becoming GM is at the end of this season than Stockholm should then have to use their pick to draft him because it happened closer to the draft. So in a sense it does make a huge difference. Not sure why he isn't named full GM now, but because he isn't they should have to forfeit a pick to acquire him. 

 

I don't disagree.

[Evans 305]

Just now, Draper said:

 

Ideally, you would. The problem in cases like Davos is the damage that taking a player out of the draft causes to other teams - for example with Davos, it was only 1 day before the day he was supposed to be drafted that he got named GM. That messes up other teams drafting plans and takes a draft-able player right out from under them, and that's why the team getting the player needs to give up some compensation in those cases.

 

Whether it's the day before or months before, the effect on the draft would be the same, no? Regardless of how early it was announced Stockholm is benefiting like crazy from this which I think is unfair. I don't get why you wouldn't make Stockholm take their new GM with their first in whatever season he comes out. 

[Evans 305]

The situations seem similar other than the timing of everything. It just looks like Davos got punished because their GM quit. Should be a standard that is followed for all these situations, regardless of timing. Easier to have a rule in place and discuss possible exceptions than just starting from square one on every case and having constantly different outcomes imo 

[Kendrick 4,741]

I think to make this fair across the board Stockholm give sup their first round pick right now, because in a sense they could've named him GM many weeks ago.

[boubabi 4,725]

Lol no

what if my decision of stepping down was made not so long ago, I just didn't wait to name my new gm because the occasion was there and I had interest in taking over internally, which isn't a common thing anymore.

Edited April 15, 2016 by boubabi

[scoop 3,426]

Why are people saying Stockholm should have to give up a first? Yeah, Davos did, but that was because it was so close to the draft. If you're going to say they have to give up anything, it should be a second like was done with so many players before Komarov.

 

Greg didn't give up a first. Molholt didn't. Mike didn't.

[JardyB10 4,865]

It's been a while since I've had an exploding rant post, thank you.

[sterling 1,997]

3 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

It's been a while since I've had an exploding rant post, thank you.

STFU

[JardyB10 4,865]

Just now, sterling said:

STFU

no u

[sterling 1,997]

2 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

no u

banned