S54: Update Scale Changes

[sterling 1,997]

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Name one. I haven't seen a single one in the entire BoG thread besides "Fuck you guys this shits on welfare guys".

 

I wouldn't say I'm attacking your character, I think you mean well but I don't think you're very good at entertaining ideas that disagree with you. I think you're a bit arrogant and you tend to dismiss anyone with different ideas with a "Shut up child I know more than you". I entertain a few of those qualities myself, but when I make a case I try and use logic and data to back it up when possible. If you'd like, we can go back post by post and go by examples. Or if you'd like we could turn this into a podcast because I think that'd make for some very interesting listening for the rest of the league.

Again that's not true, I tend to agree with a lot of ideas I like and disagree with what I consider bad ideas. I have done everything in the league and had nothing but successful players so I'd argue I know what I'm talking about. If you think that's arrogant than that's that. And yes you do attack in your posts as opposed to use facts.

[Jericho 917]

13 minutes ago, sterling said:

Again that's not true, I tend to agree with a lot of ideas I like and disagree with what I consider bad ideas. I have done everything in the league and had nothing but successful players so I'd argue I know what I'm talking about. If you think that's arrogant than that's that. And yes you do attack in your posts as opposed to use facts.

 

Nobody's discounting your history, but you have to acknowledge that things change sometimes. What is good in one era isn't necessarily something that ages well. I think the update scale was perfect for the time it was introduced, and worked well for the next 35+ seasons. But we started giving more TPE away over the course of a career, so we want to make that TPE more or less worth the same. It's the same concept of inflation that works in real world economics.

 

I don't think the part where you disagree is what comes across as arrogant, it's the complete dismissal to opinions you disagree with. have an open mind to someone who has a difference of opinion, they may have an perspective you haven't considered, or they may say something that gives you an even better idea. That's how some of the most productive things we've ever had came about. That's why we have an entire Board of Governers instead of trusting it to one guy.

 

If you really don't think I've made any use of constructive criticism in my posts I have to disagree. Here's a list of them, starting with my first one after you showed your dislike for the new system.

 

Admittedly an opinion, but we're early on at this point, and I think we can agree that this was a productive and respectful comment.

 

Relating TPE inflation to economics I show why I think you were mistaken with your view of the outcome of the scale.

 

Relating how we can't dismiss the whores completely when we balance the scale because otherwise nobody will bother with jobs..and some jobs are needed to make the league run.

 

Disagreeing with your assessment of the end result, and giving an example of how I think the system will help welfare guys stay ahead of TPE whores with their young players.

 

The first comment I made that could possibly be seen as an attack, but you came across as dismissive and arrogant and I was annoyed.

 

The rest of the posts all get into TPE relativity and the only thing you could even think would be insulting was when I said that your logic was flawed, a statement that I stand by. I genuinely don't think the scale update will have the same effect you think it will, and the entire rest of our debate was about that. So I think these show I did in fact make fair and productive arguments through use of a hypothesis, followed by constructing a model, followed by use of that model. If you disagree that's fine, but it felt more that we were disagreeing over a completely separate issue. If your thesis was right and we'd be fucking welfare guys over, I'd have voted no. But I don't think it will, for all of the previously stated reasons. I find it frustrating to be dismissed without a proper response to the argument, because that doesn't do anything constructive.

[ASIANBOUBABI 173]

I dont mind the idea of extending the career of a player a little longer but I also understand that if this is the way the scale is heading now, just to deal with it and enjoy the league. Thats a simple statement but I do not have the history or experience of all the veteran members who are used to a certain way of doing it. I get that some members dont like this new scale but I hope they can still enjoy the league and have fun roleplaying their player(s).

[Higgins 3,618]

16 hours ago, sterling said:

I'm also not entirely sure why a lot of you are writing novels to disagree with me, this is purely my opinion and I understand how many people don't share my point of view. I do, so slag off

 

Because you give of a vibe that the sky is falling, where this change isn't that big in reality and will hurt both PT, pension and inactives when it comes to high end 95+ attributes. You may not realize it but you could be influencing other people, so I think it's fair that we give the good reasons for the change.

 

Honestly to anyone on the fence I would say, let's see how this plays out for the next season, I have a feeling not much aside from high end TPE and weaker players in their 7th and 8th seasons will be that noticeable. Hopefully it opens up where a pension player could become an elite playmaker, but not be out competed by someone who else who does PTs and gets ALL 99's.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

After good activity on both LeBeau and O'Malley I actually think this is a good change. If you look at how many points Maximoff puts up with welfare/job and just PT's on double weeks, it happened just too easily (and never expected this up front).

 

Curious to see how it plays out, but I think this rewards active players as it get's even harder to reach the higher stats, so I feel this is a good thing.

[Baozi 1,658]

1 hour ago, Green said:

After good activity on both LeBeau and O'Malley I actually think this is a good change. If you look at how many points Maximoff puts up with welfare/job and just PT's on double weeks, it happened just too easily (and never expected this up front).

 

Curious to see how it plays out, but I think this rewards active players as it get's even harder to reach the higher stats, so I feel this is a good thing.

 

Max's stats are more an issue with the sim engine distributing stats than it is based on TPE on his player.

 

If you recall, Moholt's player had similiar success at 300-400 tpe when he was the only player on Toronto with reasonable attributes surrounded by scrubs. The sim assigns scores and then distributes them based on attributes. If you were to place Max in the same situation on a more depth loaded team then you'll see his stats drop like this season where he is behind AK because he has to share some of the point distribution. Its always been a weird factor where small teams get to consolidate alot of points on a few players.

 

Anyways, as a welfare supporter, I think the update scale is fine insofar as it requires much more effort to get your stats into the 90s now which ultimately becomes a sort of glass ceiling for welfare guys now unless you're willing to pump all your points into a single stat which doesn't give you a well rounded player anyways.

Edited February 27, 2017 by tfong

[Devise 4,475]

2 hours ago, tfong said:

Anyways, as a welfare supporter, I think the update scale is fine insofar as it requires much more effort to get your stats into the 90s now which ultimately becomes a sort of glass ceiling for welfare guys now unless you're willing to pump all your points into a single stat which doesn't give you a well rounded player anyways.

 

It was thought it with this intent in mind, so I'm glad to see some are seeing it such as that. Your last point I think is one to highlight because it's not that we are no longer allowing any user the ability to choose to pump up stats like they have. It just now comes with more of a drawback to counter balance that so the ones who have a better time keeping stats will be the ones who earn more TPE. 

[Da Trifecta 1,899]

@BobertZ