Game of Thrones

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Really thought this episode was the worst one of the season so far

[Victor 10,946]

Episode 1 was pretty bad.

[gorlab 4,321]

Really thought this episode was the worst one of the season so far

tf, I thought it was the best one so far.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

I really didn't like that part at Winterfell / the Boltons, it just kept dragging on and on.

Luckily they ended with Tyrion though, that was the most fun part once again.

[Victor 10,946]

I really didn't like that part at Winterfell / the Boltons, it just kept dragging on and on.

Luckily they ended with Tyrion though, that was the most fun part once again.

I agree, it was very forced. Don't think we need any reminder that Ramsay is a psychopath.

Lack of King's Landing tells tbh.

The "kill the boy" speech, aka the title of the episode, was a major dud. Cut most of the context, rushed delivery, complete waste of time.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,891]

So, I needed this after tonight's episode. You all may too.

 

[boubabi 4,725]

it wasn't that bad.

[Victor 10,946]

fuck the show makers

[boubabi 4,725]

I don't see why people makes a big deal out of the rape scene. I mean, it's not the first time we see rapping in GoT and we saw such worst things. It's not like it was new to show viewers. 

[Victor 10,946]

rapping in GoT

that would be quite something

Rape is mundane in Game of Thrones land. In fact, this doesn't even classify as rape imo, they are married lol.

But Sansa should still be a virgin, the show makers are just messed up.

[boubabi 4,725]

virgin or not

what's the big deal ? She got XP now

Edited May 19, 2015 by boubabi

[Caillean 504]

I don't see why people makes a big deal out of the rape scene. I mean, it's not the first time we see rapping in GoT and we saw such worst things. It's not like it was new to show viewers. 

Well, there's 2 reasons that I've seen so far.

 

One, is all the SJWs who are getting pissed about rape ever being portrayed in TV shows or movies, because they accuse "Hollywood" of just using rape as a cheap tactic to create drama unnecessarily. In some situations, not completely wrong, but I don't fully agree with it in GoT. That said, I did think the scene where Sansa was ALMOST raped during the riots in King's Landing was unnecessary. I think part of the problem with the show is that D&D have inserted rape into scenes where it wasn't in the books and where it was a bit unnecessary or just flat out missed the mark (Cersei/Jaime in the sept, meant to be consensual but ended up looking pretty rapey). GRRM does a great job of only using rape where it's necessary, and not to further the plotline in some dumb way. As of right now, D&D seem to just kind of casually toss it in anywhere they feel someone would probably be getting raped.

 

The second and FAR more common reason though, is that it's because it was Sansa. Sansa is one of the few characters in the series who is still more or less innocent. She's never hurt anyone that I can remember (purposely), and while she has a bit of a rude streak in her (she seems to enjoy talking down to people) that's not enough to make her not a relatively sweet and innocent character. She's also a girl we saw grow up on this show. We've shared her hopes and dreams of becoming Queen and marrying some gallant prince and having his babies and all that. We even see her marry Tyrion (who she initially despises completely) and yet he refuses to force her to consummate their marriage out of respect for her- only to see her forcefully taken on her (second) wedding night by a complete psychopath.

 

Honestly I don't even like Sansa much, but the entire scene just left me feeling really uneasy. It was very well shot, because it definitely affected me more than Dany being raped by Drogo in the beginning of the series (more bullshit considering it was consensual in the books). More than anything, I'm also concerned that they're simply using Sansa's rape/marriage to Ramsay to set up Theon's redemption arc. Sansa is supposed to be learning to play the game. She's learned a bit about being a woman from Cersei: "Tears aren't a woman's only weapon. The best one's between your legs.", and even more about playing the game from Littlefinger, who currently seems to be the reigning champ at it. They could easily have written her at least ATTEMPTING to play the game- taking hold of her own insecurities and fears and showing her attempting to seduce Ramsay instead of meekly and frightfully accepting what was going to happen anyway. It even seemed to me like they were setting up something like that with the scene with Myranda. Instead, D&D go their typical route of "Nah let's just have Sansa do absolutely nothing when in the face of ACTUAL adversity, despite the fact that she's been learning how to manipulate and be strong for about 2 seasons now".

 

And Victor, it's still rape. Just because they're married doesn't mean that by definition it wasn't rape. There was just nothing anyone could or would do about it, because "back then" (time period since it's fictional) the wife was the husband's property to do with as he pleased. But rape by definition is penetration/intercourse in which someone is an unwilling participant. Sansa was definitely unwilling.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Caillean

[boubabi 4,725]

Well, there's 2 reasons that I've seen so far.

 

One, is all the SJWs who are getting pissed about rape ever being portrayed in TV shows or movies, because they accuse "Hollywood" of just using rape as a cheap tactic to create drama unnecessarily. In some situations, not completely wrong, but I don't fully agree with it in GoT. That said, I did think the scene where Sansa was ALMOST raped during the riots in King's Landing was unnecessary. I think part of the problem with the show is that D&D have inserted rape into scenes where it wasn't in the books and where it was a bit unnecessary or just flat out missed the mark (Cersei/Jaime in the sept, meant to be consensual but ended up looking pretty rapey). GRRM does a great job of only using rape where it's necessary, and not to further the plotline in some dumb way. As of right now, D&D seem to just kind of casually toss it in anywhere they feel someone would probably be getting raped.

 

The second and FAR more common reason though, is that it's because it was Sansa. Sansa is one of the few characters in the series who is still more or less innocent. She's never hurt anyone that I can remember (purposely), and while she has a bit of a rude streak in her (she seems to enjoy talking down to people) that's not enough to make her not a relatively sweet and innocent character. She's also a girl we saw grow up on this show. We've shared her hopes and dreams of becoming Queen and marrying some gallant prince and having his babies and all that. We even see her marry Tyrion (who she initially despises completely) and yet he refuses to force her to consummate their marriage out of respect for her- only to see her forcefully taken on her (second) wedding night by a complete psychopath.

 

Honestly I don't even like Sansa much, but the entire scene just left me feeling really uneasy. It was very well shot, because it definitely affected me more than Dany being raped by Drogo in the beginning of the series (more bullshit considering it was consensual in the books). More than anything, I'm also concerned that they're simply using Sansa's rape/marriage to Ramsay to set up Theon's redemption arc. Sansa is supposed to be learning to play the game. She's learned a bit about being a woman from Cersei: "Tears aren't a woman's only weapon. The best one's between your legs.", and even more about playing the game from Littlefinger, who currently seems to be the reigning champ at it. They could easily have written her at least ATTEMPTING to play the game- taking hold of her own insecurities and fears and showing her attempting to seduce Ramsay instead of meekly and frightfully accepting what was going to happen anyway. It even seemed to me like they were setting up something like that with the scene with Myranda. Instead, D&D go their typical route of "Nah let's just have Sansa do absolutely nothing when in the face of ACTUAL adversity, despite the fact that she's been learning how to manipulate and be strong for about 2 seasons now".

 

And Victor, it's still rape. Just because they're married doesn't mean that by definition it wasn't rape. There was just nothing anyone could or would do about it, because "back then" (time period since it's fictional) the wife was the husband's property to do with as he pleased. But rape by definition is penetration/intercourse in which someone is an unwilling participant. Sansa was definitely unwilling.

Can't say that the rape scene was unnecessary. They want to show the Ramsay's story line in this season and how a monster he really is. We can all agree that he already shown that. BUT, Ramsay said that he will never hurt Sansa to Littlefinger, which is obviously not true now, so they want us to see Sansa growing as a more powerful character but still being vulnerable, which is fine. Sansa knew how horrible was Ramsay but she never really "experimented" Ramsay's torture. So I felt like "Okay, it sucks for Sansa but she got more now enough excuses to kick the shit out of Ramsay".

 

My final thought, the episode was named "unbowed unbent unbroken" which is the complete opposite of what happened to Sansa.

 

UP TOP.

Edited May 19, 2015 by boubabi

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

You mean besides the fact that Ramsay is a Bolton and they betrayed her family at the Red Wedding? She needed to be raped to hate Ramsay even more?

 

I don't think it's that much of a surprise that the story lines that stray farther from the books are the ones that most people (including only TV show watchers) are finding disappointing.  I mean, I didn't really think it'd be possible to find the Sand Snakes any less interesting, but somehow D&D have done it. 

[Caillean 504]

Can't say that the rape scene was unnecessary. They want to show the Ramsay's story line in this season and how a monster he really is. We can all agree that he already shown that. BUT, Ramsay said that he will never hurt Sansa to Littlefinger, which is obviously not true now, so they want us to see Sansa growing as a more powerful character but still being vulnerable, which is fine. Sansa knew how horrible was Ramsay but she never really "experimented" Ramsay's torture. So I felt like "Okay, it sucks for Sansa but she got more now enough excuses to kick the shit out of Ramsay".

 

My final thought, the episode was named "unbowed unbent unbroken" which is the complete opposite of what happened to Sansa.

 

UP TOP.

We already know what a monster he is. What he did to Sansa is NOTHING compared to what he's done to Theon and all the other girls he's killed and mutilated over the seasons. Remember the hunting trip?

 

He also hasn't hurt Sansa. As Victor said, he did nothing he wasn't legally allowed to do. The only way he could have not hurt Sansa was to not consummate the marriage, and he's not Tyrion. The problem to me is that they're NOT showing that she's growing stronger as a character. She's done literally nothing strong that she hasn't done in past seasons. Some could argue that when she got snarky with Myranda it was her showing her strength- but she did the same thing with her Septa all the way back in season 1. She's had little to no legitimate character growth, and sticking her in a scene like that just to "show what a monster Ramsay truly is" is ridiculous, because it's already been FIRMLY established. It was a cheap attempt to get us to sympathize more with her because it's her. This is the guy who's raped women and then let his girlfriend shoot them in the face cuz they're too pretty. But nobody felt as bad for that girl as they do now for Sansa, so it worked.

 

And yeah, I've heard that joke entirely too many times since the episode, poor dear.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Caillean

[Caillean 504]

You mean besides the fact that Ramsay is a Bolton and they betrayed her family at the Red Wedding? She needed to be raped to hate Ramsay even more?

 

I don't think it's that much of a surprise that the story lines that stray farther from the books are the ones that most people (including only TV show watchers) are finding disappointing.  I mean, I didn't really think it'd be possible to find the Sand Snakes any less interesting, but somehow D&D have done it. 

OH GOOD GOD DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE SAND SNAKES.

and my personal favourite

[boubabi 4,725]

ahahahahahahah

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

OH man I just noticed the one on the right. So cringe worthy.

[Caillean 504]

Yeah, that one was definitely to point out how terrible Nym (I think) was. Ugh. Just SO AWFUL

[Victor 10,946]

The choreography is strong with this one.

[boubabi 4,725]

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

Pretty ridiculous how people are even in any kind of an uproar.

 

A show that involves incest, burning people alive, chopping of a guy's dick, rape, and way more than that. But no, Sansa being raped off-screen all of a sudden crosses the line.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

[Caillean 504]

Well to be honest, I get it. I'm more upset with this scene than some others because it looks to be a tool to further someone else's plot, and I don't think rape is the only thing that should be used like that. That said some of the "outrage" is too far.

[boubabi 4,725]

When reeks saw Ramsey, priceless