A Pirandellean Question

[Gustav 6,468]

I actually originally wrote this up for a much smaller, much more casual community, but I figured like three people might read it and not all of them would care. So it's going here because I think it could be a legitimately interesting topic of conversation.

 

There's a book called One, No One, and One Hundred Thousand that was written by Luigi Pirandello over a fairly large amount of time in the early 1900s. I've actually never read it, but there's one thing about it that's stuck with me since I heard about it--at one point, the main character realizes that to everyone else you've ever met, you are someone different. Everyone has a different perception of you than everyone else--Jimmy might think you're a genius while Billy thinks you're an idiot, Sandra thinks you're hot while Ashley thinks you're ugly, Theo sees you as a really interesting person with a lot of deep thoughts while you've never been more than just "a person who exists and whose face I happen to recognize" to George. It's sort of like the Schrödinger's cat experiment, where you don't even exist until you're observed in a certain state of existence by someone else, and everyone observes you in a different state of existence--the Copenhagen school of thought in physics might even argue that everyone sees an alternate reality of you, even when you only experience what you know to be your own.

 

So, I feel like this raises an interesting question in the Internet world, particularly in communities such as this one. How do you see yourself in the sim league world? Who do you think you are? Who do you think other people think you are? What's the difference in perception between newer members and older members, between more and less active ones? What about other leagues and other places on the Internet--is your VHL persona unique to the VHL, or are you seen in a different light (whatever that may be) elsewhere?

 

Maybe this is a bit too deep-thoughts-y of a topic for a sim league, but I'm genuinely curious as to how everyone feels about themselves and others in the community, and how that may vary from member to member.

[bigAL 2,176]

Man, I want what Gus is on.

[mediocrepony 1,216]

i agree with billy and ashley

[bigAL 2,176]

omfg my novel of a response disappeared

[bigAL 2,176]

Urgh rewriting sucks ass. I'll do my best to summarize. Believe or not, the first post was longer.

 

Reality is a social construct, and identity is doubly so. Who decides our identity? Is it us, who lives with it every day, or is it the others that see it and live with it? I get that we try to not listen to perceptions of others, but when we're dead and gone, who else will carry on the memory of our identity?

 

Identity is something I've really thought about deeping, because I've had many different (and conflicting) identities through the years. I've been the model-citizen, kid-rearing, law-abiding teacher, while also being the alcoholic party animal dope-smoker at the same time. I've been the two-steppin, dip-chewin, truck-drivin redneck while also being the bleeding heart liberal (yes, those are two mutually exclusive groups). It's caused a lot of internal conflict that took a long time and a lot of work to resolve. It's exhausting to be a different person to different people in different social worlds. My life felt very compartmentalized, and with all the conflicting identities, I didn't allow for much cross-over between worlds. I was terrified of something like a wedding where everyone from your life expects to come. How are my "not politically correct" hilla billy friends going to get along with my lefty city friends?!  As my identities evolved and changed, it made looking back very difficult. There was lots of anxiousness and guilt-and-shame feelings about who I was and how I've left behind so many experiences and relationships that I felt I couldn't ever go back to. I lost touch with a lot of friends from identities past because I had evolved to such a contradictory place. I struggle to reminisce about times where I don't recognize myself, and to keep up relationships with people when I've evolved away from the identity group that they identify with so strongly. Sometimes, when I get back in those situations or with those people, I catch myself slipping back into those old clothes.

 

Reflecting on those instances, it makes me feel dirty and "untrue to myself" that I panicked and took the easy way out instead of really "putting myself out there" and being myself. It's hard and scary to be yourself. It opens you up to judgement, and those judgements matter way more because they're about the true you. It's easier to put up those walls, to default to a persona that allows you to "fit in" even if it means behaving in a way that you might not agree with later. Identity can depend a lot on who you're with and what the expectations of the moment dictate. But if you wear that persona for too long, it does become who you are, and makes it really hard to take off once you realize it's not actually you.

 

I really hope that everyone on here is who they are in real life. When there's a disconnect between who you are to yourself and how you act or present yourself externally, it's a recipe for mental disaster. You need to be comfortable with who you are, with what you do, with who you're around, because that's what life is. I really struggle with this idea of an "online" personality and an "irl" personality. In the year 2020, we spend so much time on here that it's not fair to separate our online actions from our "real" lives. When that happens, we see personality traits like the troll brigade or keyboard-warriors showing up. That's not cool on the VHL where we're a relationship-based community and interact with each other regularly. (It's also not cool on truly anonymous platforms like Twitter where you're mostly shouting to the ether, but that's a whole different space). This is a part of our real life. What we do here is who we are, like it or not. I would like to think that the people I'm friends with on here would also be friends of mine in the physical world.

 

I also don't really want to share what I think or expect other people to think about me on here. It feels like just opening yourself up to internal conflict. I don't want to hear things like "That guy's delusional if that's what he thinks of himself" or "what a cocky bastard to see himself that way". I'd rather judge how others see me by the relationships I've built and the experiences we share. If someone thinks I'm a good guy, we'll probably interact with each other lots, and if they think I'm an asshole, they'll probably tell me. I have ideas of how people perceive me. I have ideas of how I want people to perceive me. But I've worked hard to develop this internal "locus of control" and derive my worth and value internally and not externally, so I'm not going to open myself to the opportunities for those contradictions (even though I bet you all think I'm just the bees knees).

 

Cool thought experiment Gus. 

 

(And classic university student to start this off with "I didn't do the readings, but..." hahahaha)

[Berocka 2,263]

1 hour ago, GustavMattias said:

How do you see yourself in the sim league world?

Who do you think you are?

Who do you think other people think you are?

What's the difference in perception between newer members and older members, between more and less active ones?

What about other leagues and other places on the Internet--is your VHL persona unique to the VHL, or are you seen in a different light (whatever that may be) elsewhere?

1 More question and this could have been a press conference

 

1. I see myself as kinda the person in the back row of photos, like when you think VHL you don't think of me but if you look closely you go oh yeah Berocka is a person.

2. In real life a lot more quiet, try and get through life without causing any trouble. Only in sport do a take on a bigger role.

3. I have no idea and I don't care too much, if you like me great, if you hate me, sorry I have upset you.

4. Older members are concrete whilst newer members to me are more like clay. You know where the older members stand and which ones you get along with the newer ones are more of an unknown. I don't really see active and inactive people any differently.

5. I think I am different in VHL than I am in real life due to the fact of anonymity.

 

[Victor 11,009]

Yeah what the fuck Gus, I don't come here to think about existence.

 

nah this is good shit. I think this resonates in particular because there's already like two of me - no one IRL knows about the VHL, barely anyone on the VHL knows more than a little snippet about my real life.

 

I also think this has changed over time. Early days VHL I think I was trying to be someone here that I wasn't necessarily IRL. These days I think we are more or less the same person. Despite not knowing about this at the moment, I don't think my real life friends would be surprised this is what I'm into. Equally, I don't think it'll be hugely surprising to anyone here that I'm in finance IRL.

 

I also wonder what people think other people on here look like. Generally, if I'm speaking to someone online I read things in my voice and by extension assume they look similar to me tbh. That's actually still true of people whose faces I have seen. So some members have been quite a surprise (in a good way usually).

[Berocka 2,263]

12 minutes ago, Victor said:

I also wonder what people think other people on here look like.

People's profile pictures morph the way I think about how they look. I still think @Banackock is as tall as Peter Dinklage 

[mediocrepony 1,216]

20 minutes ago, Berocka said:

People's profile pictures morph the way I think about how they look. I still think @Banackock is as tall as Peter Dinklage 

same. i think of victor as an effing king cuz of of his pic

[Victor 11,009]

Just now, GrittyIsKing09 said:

same. i think of victor as an effing king cuz of of his pic

In this case reality does match perception tbf.

[Gustav 6,468]

3 minutes ago, Victor said:

In this case reality does match perception tbf.

 

I knew you were a boomer smh

[mediocrepony 1,216]

2 hours ago, GustavMattias said:

 

 

 

1 How do you see yourself in the sim league world?

2 Who do you think you are?

3 Who do you think other people think you are?

4What's the difference in perception between newer members and older members, between more and less active ones?

5 What about other leagues and other places on the Internet--is your VHL persona unique to the VHL, or are you seen in a different light (whatever that may be) elsewhere?

 

 

alright, time for the presser.

1. I think I'm kind of the new- ish guy whos kinda funny and is pretty nice and cool

3. I think I'm an athletic nerd who recently discovered youtube

3. A person who has made his rounds of the internet and is kind of funny

4. newer members do a heckuva lot more reviewing, and old members just know what to do, i guess. They understand what it was like to be a newbie(probably)

5 just recently I have discovered the internet. not like found out about it, like the culture. The memes. The youtube. the reddit. I am so much different behind a profile pic and username than irl.

[Devise 4,475]

First of all, great thread idea @GustavMattias and that was a very enjoyable read. I honestly echo a lot of what @bigAL said, and have for years now. Obviously I've never been too shy about putting myself out there on the internet in a post VHL world, given all those Pajodcasts and eventually that turning into a Youtube experiment for @Advantage @Jericho and I. But the three of us and I know some others I know a little better on here since the years have passed that wouldn't even know each other well if we hadn't of tried to approach things as just being ourselves online. 

 

One of the things I'll add too re the importance of trying to find one identity and sticking with it and presenting yourself as is for the most part; in a world littered with misinformation and bullshit your not just helping yourself by choosing to be relatively open and earnest in who you are online. Your also helping stop that spread of misinformation. It's so much easier to trust information from people you know, people who you continue to know and whom have no proven interest in trying to push you one way or the other, to con you, or to do any other sort of nefarious but subtle thing that happens in internet toxicity. Given context, it's a lot easier to gauge good faith among those you know. But it's also a lot easier to take certain things with a grain of salt too. For example, @Victor says Delete the VHLM in private all time in jest (mostly) yet if such a thing were to be presented in earnest it would erupt the league in chaos. 

 

Victors very own story on how his online persona sort of shifted to be more of a reflection of certain aspects of his actual one are also a good lesson from my point of view. It's easy to get caught up into trying to alter ones persona to either fit in, or not rock the boat depending on the context of the social situation. This can and often does lead to resentment, making you feel like others perceptions of you are forcing you to change yourself. This can lead a person to become totally unfiltered in response. "This is me, deal with it." It doesn't have to be an all or none of it approach, presenting yourself online or in general in earnest. It's about reading the community, and the social group and putting the you that makes sense for that situation forward while still keeping the integrity of the you intact. Basically; being true to yourself doesn't mean being true in every single instance of every single social situation. 

 

 

[Garsh 1,195]

I think I am mostly myself, maybe dialed up a notch or 2, nothing seriously divergent of who I am.  I think I have a somewhat unique sense of humor that maybe doesn't always translate well to text.  I don't know how people here view me.

 

I like @Berocka's point about the profile pictures turning into how I view people.  This is definitely something I do as well.  A friend from my first forum group type thing I am friends with on Facebook and have been fore years at this point, but I always picture him looking like Dante from Devil May Cry since that was his profile pic.