Devise

That Coors Light seriously needs to catch a fade bro! I say take a few more "shots" and show it's who's boss. Your mother fucking Gorlab.

Currently drinking a fancy bottle of wine with my uncle who has down syndrome. He's like 55 so we don't know how many more years he has left in him. But it's a relatively alright time. I am not big on spending time in NFLD with family but it's nice and quiet tonight so I'm enjoying it.

So what does this mean for those of us who paid for +1 per PT? Do I get 14 for free doubles now?

I take offense to TOR G being given a third star. He let in a shootout goal against scrubby Logan Laich, come on now!

Choo choo? Hello O'Malley!

Helsinki Cologne Seattle Riga

Express 7-2

http://www46.zippyshare.com/v/41477761/file.html Audio is fixed! More appropriately we switched to mixlr because for whatever reason call graph wouldn't work for us. That means it's only running at an hour, go ahead and cheer grader. We pass over the easy hot topics of the VHLM debates because it's been beaten to death. Instead we do some sim coverage, have some fun with recapping some drafts of players already retired and somehow manage to get through shout outs all in an hour.

Nobody said that. There are re-creates who passionately care about the VHLM and there are recreates who don't. Even if you disregard recreates I have talked to new members who simply wanted to get out of the VHLM and head to the VHL, and newer members who since leaving the VHLM were glad and have went to the VHL. It goes both ways. I just don't see how giving people options, provided all the options offer a balanced and fair approach for all parties really hurts anything.

Indeed. There are a few re-creates and members in general who have a passion for the VHLM, and honestly the groups who are pro VHLM continue to get in conflicts with those who aren't, those who have abused the system with higher TPE, the list goes on. People act like we would be forcing them to go to the VHL. That isn't the case. All we would be doing is offering options. In regards to the VHLM losing players, we would probably have to contract but don't go crazy on the amount of players we would lose. Again re-creates are in the VHLM for a single season. Then they spend usually 8 WHOLE SEASONS away from it. The VHLM lives fine when those players aren't there. If our goal is to make the VHLM a development league, an entry point for new members, having those who care about it and the new members make up the bulk of the league is a GOOD thing. Maybe records might actually make more of a difference this way, and stats/VHLM awards. Because you won't have as many players tearing it up with high TPE or unhappy that they have to play their and don't care.

See this argument doesn't make sense to me at all. If someone chooses to skip the minors as a recreate, they should still get advantages based on their past player. Otherwise they wouldn't take the option. Then you get them with issues about not being able to spend their TPE in the minors, or new members unhappy that re-creates tear up the minors. If anything this is done as an incentive to encourage those who don't care about minors stats anyways, to let the new members reign more over the VHLM than currently. Which is exactly what new members seem to want. So why discourage re-creates by making it so they have no advantages for choosing to skip out on the VHLM?

The 0 TPE would be an option on top of current carry over rules. But the current carry over rules do include going into the VHLM that does have an attribute cap. Ergo if a player knew they were going to earn max carry over and enough TPE to not be able to update their player (a situation currently happening) it would in the end most likely benefit them TPE wise to skip. However in some cases certain re-creates may benefit more from having too little carry over that being able to start from scratch would net them more TPE in the long run.

It could potentially work. But no matter what we do there has to be a cut off date for when people create what draft they are eligible for. Re-creates generally always go to find the sweet spot to where they can earn the most TPE before they go to the VHL. So you would get those who either find that spot and still hit the cap before the season ends. Or people would just wait until after the cut off date and begin earning so they are eligible for the next draft. With VHL being the priority in terms of stats and records, a majority of re-creates want to be ready to do damage the moment they hit the VHL. So generally they will find ways to ensure they get as much milk out of whatever system we put in place.

Yeah as Sterling said Boubabi, sometimes we get criticized of just making stats up but we really aren't in a lot of cases. The most recent extreme examples if anything probably forced changes quicker than they would/should of came. But data collecting happens on a lot of fronts whether its new member surveys, or members of the BoG communicating via PM/chat with people. A lot of times people are intimidated to express a public opinion in a format like this with fear of being chastised because they disagree with the way something is being done. That fear got fueled further when new members started a debate and proceeded to get chastised for it a while back. Point being, there is some rhyme and reason to the changes being made.

Then recreates would retire in the pre-season. 250 probably is too high, it's tough to tell how much damage would get done in the sim. I don't suspect many players would have 250 though until at least deadline in the VHLM. Even the good players. Is there even enough TPE with max carry over to do that? But higher than 175 for sure.

Such is the nature of changes in general though. I feel we kind of knee jerked simply because we were hit by multiple high TPE recreates in the VHLM doing damage, and it got fueled by debating of newer members. You add in the previous 175 TPE cap, and we probably just assumed it'd be fine. Honestly I would even go as high as maybe 225 or 250. Assuming most of these recreates are earning their 9 TPE a week, in a given season they should earn 70ish TPE. So at the TPE numbers they are at now, they would hit the cap as the season is coming to an end. I don't think 250 TPE level players (near the end of the season too keep in mind) would tear up the VHLM too bad. But it's tough to say.

The intent of the changes when they were made certainly had the desired outcome. Parity in the VHLM appears to be higher early on, but the sample size is small. I just find myself in the middle of the argument here. The concept of having your player an attribute cap basically a week into a new season and being faced with not seeing any progression until you get to the VHL for a season does indeed sound boring. However I don't know if I myself personally would be that bothered since like you, and others my opinion is always it's just the VHLM. My players stats in the VHLM really don't bug me that much, and so what I get less than the full 20 on achievement tracker? Again, not a huge deal. But I can see why it is an issue for some, and just like we gave attention to the members who felt isolated and dominated by recreates I think this deserves attention as well. Whether we go full on radical with it like some of my other suggestions, or simply increase the attribute cap to something a bit higher so that these people could continue to progress until closer to when they get to the VHL. I mean either way your not going to make both sides perfectly happy.

I apologize but your posts came across as if you were saying they were choosing between going up and staying down. I tried to word it in a non disrespectful manner. I wasn't the only one confused with your intentions in this thread either. But I digress. In regards to the issue, some people (in the case of Coach and Boubabi thus far) want to see progression with their players throughout their VHLM season and be able to earn the max of achievement tracker the one season they are in the VHLM.

Are you confused? It's a 175 attribute cap, meaning players can't update any attributes past 175 TPE and must bank. The cap could be 100 and it still wouldn't matter. The players who haven't been drafted to the VHL teams because their draft class doesn't come for an entire season can't go to the VHL regardless of TPE numbers. Again unless we were to alter/adjust rules. That is the issue at hand here. Several of these players have hit the attribute cap and they have a season to wait until they are eligible to go to the VHL. Ergo they had no choices, they simply have to stop updating their player for the rest of the season until they make it to the VHL. It isn't like they had an option to choose to stay down before the season started.

So the rules would have to be adjusted to allow him in the VHL. Technically he can't enter, he's a S42 draftee despite being a GM player. It's the case with other non GM's this season who are going to hit 175 before they are eligible as well.

Time for some more "light shedding" on ideas/suggestions that have been off and on in the BoG. The recent thread by Bouabi and one made a few days ago by Coach in the BoG discussion has propelled me to make this poll. I make the votes public, but technically speaking anyone/everyone could eventually re-create in this league, even first gens, so their opinions would still be relevant in this case. Anyway, I had an idea in the BoG roughly a season ago when the debates came to re-creates tearing up the VHLM and having way too much TPE in the minors. My idea was to restructure the re-creation TPE so that people would earn a lot more. Most higher TPE earners would earn anywhere from 200-300. However they would automatically qualify for the upcoming draft, spend zero games in the VHLM and still play 8 seasons in the VHL. Since some players wouldn't want to go this route, the idea also came with a caveat of a second option where the player would instead get put back to 0 TPE with no recreation and get the same perks/bonus's as first gens. Now that this debate is happening again, and we seem to have gone completely the other direction, now instead of alienating some newer members in the VHLM we are alienating some of our top earners in the VHLM, I'm curious how many people would be okay with these options. So go ahead and answer, I'm mostly curious how many people would be perfectly fine skipping the VHLM process in this regard, and making it for players that start at 0 TPE all the time.

Boubabi I think some just didn't get that. I still understand that we have deadline recreates who are sitting at or close to the 175 and banking and have no choice and can't get to the VHL until a later point. Coach, the argument about leading the league in points is silly this early on in a season. The amount of disparity among stats for players 10 games in can be attributed to several circumstances that regardless of what you fix/change will continue to happen. Anything from a team having a easier opening schedule, a goalie having off nights against inactives. CPU players could have more points than a 175 TPE player 5-10 games into the season, and they have 0 TPE. I am not saying your issue isn't one worth addressing, but the fact that you see inactives leading in statistical categories in the VHLM in 10 games has very little to do with that issue. It's mostly just that you can't update your player and it adds more fuel to your own fire to see something like that happen. Also despite me disagreeing with Kendrick on the point of this being a non issue versus it being an issue, claiming that it has something to do with personal bias is super petty here. It has nothing to do with that. Did Sterling, Kendrick and Green benefit from the old system? Sure. But we changes weren't made to make everyone else in a lower tier than them. If anything changes were made because they were able to use the system to such a degree that we realized that there was problems. That members (new and old) had concerns. It wouldn't of mattered if it was those 3 members, or 3 other completely random members who had done what they did. The discussion was purely on the actual merits of how and why they were able to do what they were doing, and nothing to do with specific members.

That is something as we continue to adjust/tinker with the VHLM, the GM's are going to have to account for anyways. Why Karnage, who has higher TPE levels (over 175 at the draft) would be taken higher in the draft versus a solid earning younger player is beyond me. Not because you haven't earned the TPE Boubabi, but regardless of if the updating cap was changed, you are a one season VHLM player. Drafting someone who is active, interested, and looks to be in the VHLM for a season after the draft puts your team in a better position. Honestly this conversation has been happening in the BoG even before you posted this. Coach also brought up this issue with his own player, and as I said in there I doubt he and you will be the only re-creates to take issue with the way the system works. But don't just assume the change was made just for Gorlab. Kendrick speaks the truth, there was a bunch of newer members who had issues with how re-creates could get crazy high TPE in the VHLM and tear the league up simply because they retire at the right time. As you all should know, it would mean they have more TPE than the minimum cap before they were eligible to be drafted to the VHL, so it is impossible to send them up. The only other solution I could see, would be maybe increasing the update cap from 175 to something higher or trying to find another system.

Team would have to make the playoffs for you to have a shot at that I think. But you could go for Slobo if you remain atop the league standings as a rookie.

Due to the nature of when I'm allowed to voice after my move and the scheduling of Chris/Jericho we won't be able to re-record this this week so that the audio gets caught for all of us. Just grade as is graders, since I did purchase a +1 PT grade thing even if I don't get a six I'll likely get more than what I would with welfare. Sorry about this week guys, couldn't really fix it. I'll make sure we get it right next week.