Beketov

To each their own, I suppose I've never (or at least very rarely) hit that point. We have some things coming in that might help re-vitalize things a bit but it won't do it for everyone so we'll see. I find the community to usually be a good driving force personally. Getting a working chat system again would actuality help quite a bit I think. You going to be around at some point this week? Perhaps I could have you on the CoDCast again and we can talk about what brings people into the league and such. Could probably do it up as a dual podcast and you could get a PT out of it as well.

That seems possible. 72 from PT's, 10 from TC and half decent predictions of 8 gets you to 90. Plus some uncapped here and there brings it up to probably 100 which would be about average for most people. Keeners can manage the extra bit from having better predictions or good Store Purchases.

As harsh as it sounds honestly what you might need is to just stick it out for a bit. Your best times seem to have come based on the members around you. Unfortunately you won't be able to spend much time with people if you keep retiring your players so early. Stick with one for awhile and make some good memories with guys on your team. That has kept me going quite a few times in the past. Specifically with Chekhov in Cologne having @Kendrick pull me brace from the brink and with Miller in Calgary with the great group of guys we had there.

Personally I have no idea, I don't think I've ever gotten that much. I was going off a figure @boubabi used earlier.

With no donations? Seems high but I guess it is possible. 150 per season would be about 400 at the mid point of season 3 and 200 pre-draft is easily doable. I'm honestly trying to recall the relevance of this though. Was it just trying to show that 1000 is doable for regular members?

It is yeah. Not only do you have the extra starting TPE from carryover (I think that caps at 75?) but you also can choose when you re-create. As I said above that makes a huge difference. Retiring at the deadline means you get an extra few weeks of TPE plus all the off-season stuff before even going into your VHLM season.

That's the big key I think. You have to get as much TPE as possible before the countdown clock of retirement kicks in. If you start in pre-season and don't get max every week I don't think it's possible. If you start at the deadline your odds are better even if you miss a few weeks of max. I don't honestly know if I ever got the full 9 with Holik but I came into the league somewhere around 300 I think.

I never had any donations with Holik (that I recall, maybe 1 early on), barely hit the cap most weeks (took welfare some) and managed 1000 TPE. It's definitely possible.

I can't speak for the other two you mention but the SHL being messy is entirely on them. I moved that board over to jcink and set everything up to be neat, organized, and functional. And then a week later they destroyed it with a pile of clusterfuckery because people apparently have some kind of beef with sub forums over there. Big part of the reason I have never gone back tbh. In any case, there are definitely way more arguments against jcink. I'm just pointing out that it can be a functional site if it's set up right, places just don't always do that. Going the full paid IP model is definitely better and offers far more growth possibilities than jcink ever can.

I honestly don't create players in other leagues because I know I would burn out too fast. Some seem interesting but I can never stick to them so I just stick it out in the VHL where I know I have interest.

Maybe the drugs messed with my brain but I recall very early seasons being only out of 4. Might have just been season 1. There was definitely a time though. There was also a time when re-creation TPE was higher so inflation was worse. My main point stands that TPE records hold much less meaning than most because we are constantly tweaking the amount of TPE people can earn.

Hey, the hashtag campaigns have always worked for me haha. You'd actually be a pretty decent BOG member I think. Plus there would be so many more tits in that forum. It's highly lacking in that regard.

I think a point is trying to be made here regarding showing emotion in your posts but either way this isn't adding nothing to the main discussion of this topic... EDIT: It has reminded me though of the other discussion from here I wanted to bring up but forgot. I have always been against the idea of x posts = y TPE. It's a good idea on the surface but just seems like it would be far too easy to get out of hand. I could easily go into the locker room and post an entire novel 1 word at a time and get thousands of posts and TPE for them but am I really doing anything for it? It just seems like giving away TPE for the sake of it which is the same problem I have with activity check type stuff.

#Bek4Blue

FTFY

Couldn't hurt. Apparently your serious posts and your shitposts have the exact same format but it's up to everyone else to figure them out. VHL needs more emjois confirmed. Can we get back to the topic at hand then?

Alright, fuck the olive branch, good to know. So glad you have such respect for other members. 10/10; great showing. Continue shitposting all you want then, just don't complain when people don't take your seriously. It's getting real hard to tell the difference sometimes.

I have, you still have not offered much counter argument when anyone brings up an issue. Having an opinion on something means being able to work with others to make it good. You seem to prefer the method of throwing around 1 sentence insults as soon as someone disagrees with you. Everything isn't going to automatically work the way you want it to; we need to strategize things as a community and find systems that work for everyone. Personally I have not liked the concepts you have come up with. Myself and others have stated why and offered solutions. You then started throwing 1 sentence bitching back at us. How is that constructive or helpful? Instead of getting stuck up on one idea try thinking of ways that that it can work better. Maybe then I won't look at what you are doing as bitching. What I will say, bitching or not, it's creating a discussion around things that need to change and that's never a bad thing.

Maybe try rounding out your arguments instead of posting 1 sentence at a time and then giving up. @Devise brought up issues that I look at as discussion instead of bitching because he actually put some thought into them. Same with @jRuutu even though I'm on the other side of his opinion. Discussion isn't bitching. Posting "Welfare sucks, the lazy people should just get on my level" (pardon the paraphrasing) is not discussion, it is bitching. Offering solutions is important in something like this instead of simply pointing out problems.

Who said we understand! I mean I do but geesh, way to assume

You can predict that the argument would come up but that doesn't make the argument less valid. At the end of the day contracting will do more harm than good. 1. It will make the league look worse to perspective members. Cool, it's been around for 10 years but they just dropped half their teams, something must be wrong. 2. Players will still mass on good teams and non-playoff teams will still be bad. Having fewer teams does not automatically make competition. There will always be teams that are ready to compete and teams that aren't. You could have 4 teams in the league and I'd bet still only 2 would be competitive. It's the nature of the beast. Contraction is not a solution; it's a bigger band-aid than the league has ever seen. 6/10 Teams have a good shot at the Conference finals. In a league where there are only 6 teams making the playoffs that is good balance. Yes, there are teams who tanked very hard; I don't deny that. But remove those teams and the other 2 that missed the playoffs don't suddenly become powerhouses. They still wouldn't have the players required to beat the top end teams. It's easy to make the argument that if we remove 4 teams (for example) that offers us 20 players (again for example) and theses 20 will spread evenly over the remaining 6 teams. However in practice it won't happen that way. Some teams won't have cap space, others will. Some teams won't be competing for a few seasons anyway so won't try for any, others will. Things aren't even because the teams do not compete in a vacuum. Every team is different and has different needs at different times. Removing teams won;t suddenly throw everything into balance; it will just make the strong teams stronger which will force the weak teams to rebuild more and we have the same problem but a smaller league. There's no reason for it.

Im not saying they can't. I'm saying is it worth it to force people into doing that and having that take up all their VHL time or is it better to have them engaging in other aspects of the league? Personally so would rather see welfare members posting in discussions and games and stuff more than posting 1 PT and having that be all their time. I'm sure they would as well because it doesn't make the league feel like a chore. The discussion is happening, that's the first step. Things need to be taken into consideration but some good points have been brought up in here that welfare players are being given too much leeway which is a fair argument. I know I would hate if I worked 40 hours a week for $600 dollars and had someone come in for 2 hours and get paid $400. I think that's partly what's happening right now and we do need to correct it. I just don't think firing all those people is the way to go about it.

That’s a fair case and I think the proposals we’ve made in here could help that. I don’t think saying that all welfare players can post PT’s or GTFO is the answer. You’re advocating pushing people out the door because they want to post things that aren’t PT’s. Let’s assume you are right and they have enough free time on the board to post a PT instead of welfare. For example sake let’s say they have half an hour of VHL time per day. A welfare post takes about a minute. They have 29 minutes left to post in any game discussion or the locker room or whatever. That’s 29 minutes of active league time. If they post a PT instead though, you’re talking at least 20 minutes; likely more for something that needs to be researched and stuff. Not only does that post not create much discussion (it could but PT’s don’t tend to) but it also takes them far more time. That leaves at best 10 minutes to do other things. Do you see my argument here? Yes, if they have the time to devote to other areas they could do a PT. But they could also contribute much more to the league by NOT doing a PT. I think if the changes suggested in here get made and we make PT’s worth at least double that of welfare it will offer a nice enough gap that Welfare players can still serve a role but PT players are rewarded more for doing more. That seems like the best course of action.

I’ve had weeks where I need to take Welfare with Sokolov because I absolutely had no time between work and home life to do anything; let alone sit down for a podcast, writing, or GFX. Does that not make me an active member of the board? I really don’t see why the hate boner for Welfare is so strong. It keeps people here, that’s the point. Go through a weekly welfare claim and I bet you won’t find a majority of people do all their posting in there and no where else. Keeping people on the board with welfare will keep them engaging in other ways. EDIT: Alright, finally read the rest of this so time to edit the rest of my thoughts in: Does everyone who hates on Welfare really think that everyone using it is just lazy? Is that the pervading thought? Is it the name that’s putting this hate for it in your heads because I prefer calling it Pension FYI. I hate taking Welfare, go ahead and ask @DollarAndADream how much I apologize for it every time in the Locker Room. I take it when I have to, it’s a safety blanket for weeks I don’t have the free time to devote to doing a PT. That isn’t the case for everyone, for some people it’s the only time they have, and that’s fine. Should people be punished for being busy but still wanting to have a player? I don’t see why at all. They WANT to be here, if they didn’t they wouldn’t even bother with the welfare claim. Why should we shove them out the door because they have less time than the people posting PT’s do? I think @Devise is exactly right. I may have actually argued against him in the BOG a few hours ago on this because it was explained better here (yay, the true purpose of debate showing!). Moving the cap to 12 per week (honestly I don’t even see a reason to split it between welfare and non, welfare guys simply won’t have enough points going around to hit 12) and having the PT be 8 of that is fair. Give all welfare claims 4. That means a PT is worth double a welfare claim, seem’s worth it IMO. The only real argument in here against that is @boubabi complaining about his records. However he’s also the usual guy advocating for changing award names so... I guess I’ll just use your old argument against you? Time’s change. TPE records are the lowest form of record and they are constantly getting inflated anyway so I don’t see that as a valid argument. If anything the fact that you could attain that record is in part because the weekly cap has jumped before, we used to get 4 instead of 6 for PT’s. So long as we can balance things at 3 extra TPE per week I’m all for this. It offers a bigger gap between being an all PT player and an all welfare player while still allowing those without the free time to continue earning as they are. Going all the way back to the OP though I’ll respond to the changes @Banackock suggested: 1. Player store could use more variation sure but we used to have the straight player store money = TPE and it didn’t really work. I’d rather re-work it to offer more PT based rewards or something. Basically TPE but in ways that need to be earned. What you suggested equals out to 9 TPE for 3 million (or less) which is way too much for doing nothing. Buying doubles weeks and stuff is nice because it’s basically like buying 6 TPE but the work still needs to be put in. 2. Honestly the VHLM has too many issues to discuss in here. I personally am of the camp that thinks it doesn’t need to go but needs a clean slate and a whole new way of looking at how it is handled. 3. Personally I never liked the idea of these. It works in the VHLM but I don’t see the benefit at the VHL level. Not if it’s just a “post 1 word get 1 TPE” kinda thing. 4. Maybe. I’ve never stuck around in the SHL long enough to notice what these are but the concept is fine. At least as long as it stays balanced in that GFX and podcast people can get the same reward. Nothing should ever JUST reward writers or GFX or what have you. Needs to be balanced as much as possible. 5. @Higgins should be making a decision on this today. A few names have been debated in the BOG over the past few days. 6. On the surface I don’t like this one but I do understand your argument. For example, as soon as I started doing well with Holik I got nailed with regression and that sucked. For sure if we did this we would need pre-and post records to account for keeping our old records intact. Would also need to be very careful with how regression is handled. Personally I think 12 is too long but 10 might be alright if handled correctly. 7. I get the argument. I don’t have an exact suggestion on how but I do get the argument. GM’s tend to make their players suffer for their teams and 2nd player didn’t really help because it involves a lot more work. I don’t have an answer for this one. Also, since this is the longest post I’ve made in awhile. Let’s respond to a few other things I saw in here: 1. God no we should not switch to jcink. We honestly don’t go down much and I’m fairly certain jcink goes down more. The site itself is stable, our down time (which is not nearly as much as was stated, maybe once a month for like a day) I think is usually our hosting service sending us down. Maybe we should look at different hosts? That would be @sterling’s domain I believe. I helped SHL move to Jcink because what they were on was worse and it’s free. That does not mean that it’s better than what we have. IP is paid for a reason; it offers far more stability and flexibility. 2. I don’t care for the idea of 1 PT for 2 players. The second player is supposed to be extra work or a depth welfare player IMO. If you want 2 superstars then put in the work. 3. I also don’t care for the “post a PT somewhere else, get it here” kinda thing. People think welfare is bad; at least they are posting here. You could get people being paid more than welfare to only update here and that’s it; how is that fair? A good suggestion in the BOG was to have a PT posted on a sister site account for +1 in a welfare claim here. That seems slightly more fair to me since at least you have to still come in and post here. Hopefully not just that welfare claim but better than getting points for doing literally nothing on this site. 4. I would also love to see some variation of the chat back. The Discord helps but not everyone is on there. I think it is a limitation that we can’t get around but it might be worth looking into other kind of chat providers. Something must be out there that works I would imagine. There was more in here to respond to but honestly I can’t think of everything right now. If you posted something you want my thoughts on tell me and I’ll give them. I just don’t remember every point that was brought up because there were a lot.

WOuld be especially hard for me to be in consideration for the Beketov since that's for most assists and already decided