Baozi

woot

6 hours ago, Phil said:

There has been a lot of talk generated by @Tate's article over the last 24 hours. I am not here to dispute, refute, or agree(fute - damn my need for alliteration), the article. Rather, I would like to shed some light on why I stay in the VHL, if for no other reason than it's a good topic to give me my sweet TPE.

 

No Commitments- @Ricer13doesn't need to shit himself here, but there's nothing stopping me from walking away at any point. I am a recent new dad and will some weeks find it difficult to get all my point tasks in. This is a league for recreation and so the vast majority of people will always understand that irl comes first. In my prime, I did a lot for the league. I enjoyed the platform and wanted to give back to the community. I was rewarded by being inducted into the HoF as a builder - by far the bigger honour the league has bestowed on me. But now, I feel like I can just sit back and relax and enjoy the league how I want to. 

 

The Community - whether there are toxic or inattentive members here, I won't comment on, but this is a very large community and it's got some fantastic people in it. I choose who I interact with to enhance my enjoyability from the league. I've been with this league for well over a decade so I have had relationships with some members for a very long time. That definitely keeps me coming back.
 

The History - 12 (13 now?) years is a long time to be part of something. I have grown up with the league, as the league has with me. I've watched members graduate high school, college, get married, have kids. Even if it's not on a very personal level, I have a deep connection with the league and its members. I try to make the VHL the place I want it to be and see what I want - encouraging, welcoming, compassionate. I try to pay that forward with all my interactions. 

Who are you?

Just now, fishy said:

it feels weird to incentive being a good person or community member when it's already rewarding in and of itself 

Alot of it comes from when giving incentive that the awareness portion in itself encourages others to follow suit. Also some people are just motivated by incentives this way and if giving them virtual points means they take one extra look to see if the person behind them needs a hand, then honestly its not a bad trade to help them get in the habit of it.

1 minute ago, fishy said:

i feel like this is why folks enjoy holidays around the vhl, no? not many people are like "man i HATE when we do the auction and raising thousands of dollars for charity is the WORST"

I was thinking along the lines of people just doing good things throughout the year or just helping foster a good mental environment actually. But it would be pretty hard to track which would be my concern.

15 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Promote positive things
Instead of asking first gens and users to do point tasks on the site - ask them to do point tasks in real life. Help someone, pick up trash (4), go to work, go to school, apply for jobs, work out, cook a healthy meal, etc - the list goes on and on. Reward positive things by allowing them to be claimed for TPE on the site.  There are too many unhappy people around the internet, VHL should be a place where positive habits are created, VHL should be a place where positive stories are shared.

I actually like this idea. You should flesh it out further, maybe look into the mechanics of a system for confirmation of sorts for this and then present it.

12 hours ago, Tate said:

I was blown away when @Baozi complained to me that they had to use their, "personal time," to listen to my complaint.  Just an insane thing to say from a person in that position.  That comment alone should warrant a conversation.

There is a distinction between personal time (me reading/engaging in content, listening to casts etc..) and me doing my obligations like filing reports and following up on investigations and inquires.  You are correct in that all time spent here is "personal time" but context does matter in this case of me fulfilling my role duties versus what I'm not obligated to do.

5 hours ago, Tate said:

That thread outlines a perfect example of the mod team not doing their due dilligence, and also not giving a fuck about the fact that they fucked me over.  The fact that only yourself, Spartan, reached out to me after this thread speaks volumes.  I've really gone after @Baozi on this subject, because while I don't think they're a bad person I do believe they have the wrong ideals for their role and because of that, even their mistakes in hiring people are brutal holes to climb out of.  

My understanding is that we arrived at like a quasi resolution for this already in the prior, I don't really feel it is necessary to hash it out again, so I'd feel its fair to ask you refrain from tagging me on such matters unless there is something we haven't already covered.

Time for my annual league skins giveaway.

I don't know if any national foundation exist for womens violence, but if there is I'd be down for that. Otherwise I would've said my local women's shelter.

zeeeee

4 minutes ago, Tate said:

I get the technicality but it is mind boggling to me that you care so much about that after all of the pain and hurt I’ve expressed. 

I like to be technical because I don't like misunderstandings of sorts.

4 minutes ago, Tate said:

You know what I did when I made my mistake? I owned it and apologized to the person I offended. I went out of my way to make it right.

I think that's good. At no point in time did I disparage this or say you didn't change or own up to what you did. Again it made me believe that the 2 week warning discipline action worked out and you basically learned from it.

4 minutes ago, Tate said:

I’m a good person who is worth fighting for, and even though you may not believe me when I say it but so are you.

I certainly don't think you are a bad person. I've said it multiple times now, we have a difference in values and views. I've acknowledged this and I've explained to you why we are different but I didn't say that you can't be you. Certainly if i did then I do apologize for that, I definitely mean it takes many people in many walks of life and we all have different life experiences so none of us are the same. That isn't even in a negative way. Its just to express uniqueness in each person. This is why i took the time to listen to your podcast and I replied back to you. 

Also please note I haven't discouraged or shut down any of this conversation because I think its fine to have these discussions. Certainly talking it through and having people voice concerns I've always welcomed.

5 minutes ago, Tate said:

First of all, there is a gigantic difference between what I said, and what you said.

 

Mine should have been warning, and in my opinion yours was more of a cry for help.  It’s clear the pain you felt inside that made you attack that individual.

 

Second of all, it is the very nature of how you suspend people that we disagree on. Showing that you’re consistently over the top and wrong does not prove your point to me. It just shows a record of misunderstanding that is being led by you.

 

What I mean was more that 2 weeks WAS a warning. Something you were referencing to. Other personal attacks past warning phase have typically led to perma or indefinite suspensions. I think its fine if you want to argue that warnings should be lighter perhaps but I just wanted to clarify that both yours and mine were essentially warnings.

I also want to point out that @Beketovown warning years ago was 8 weeks tpe ban.

2 hours ago, Tate said:

In my case alone it resulted in a significant loss in my reputation and my mental health.  

Sorry I do want to point out something here based on the technicalities you seemingly are trying throw at me for and I just want to set the record straight. This was the announcement of your disciplinarian action. 

Conversely I also received a 2 week ban for words I said during my own infraction.

If you look also, another member for also a 2 week ban right before yours for a harassment complaint as well.

So its pretty consistent across multiple instances that first time offense harassment charges typically get the same disciplinary action so I'm not sure why you feel it wasn't established or was overly severe. We all pay for our mistakes in one way another, how you feel about what happened to your reputation or mental health however does not weigh into the judgement. There aren't indications here specifically targeting you or anything different than was announced for what myself and others that got hit with harassment complains got.

On 11/3/2021 at 12:27 PM, fishy said:

User @Tate has been suspended from the league forums and discord until November 17, 2021. A TPE ban will be in effect until November 22. This is a result of Violation of the VHL Code of Conduct and harassment/inappropriate behavior towards a community member.

 

This is a general reminder to everyone that the league takes harassment complaints incredibly seriously. Consent is incredibly important to us here to ensure that everyone feels safe and has fun. It is not only the staff’s duty but all members to ensure that each of us helps to grow and keep this community safe for one another.

Mod team is proud to announce @JB123has passed the process and joined the team.

Other candidates are still under consideration as this will go be an ongoing process in the future and all relevant applicants will be kept in open inventory.

@TheLastOlympian07DO YOU EVEN KNOW ME?

Quik was in our staff chat complaining per usual. So yes hes still very much alive.

Also how was I not tagged in this as OG.

27 minutes ago, Nykonax said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aiCxFZ1qgPJHdV7VSNU_XgHh2PvsXpwgLzNRUfQJ1uk/edit#gid=0

 

this is updated

Oh i thought it wasn't updated since s77, i guess that was just the post. Thx.

Someone should update the Continental cup wins record book. It hasn't been updated since s77 lol.

2 hours ago, Agito said:

Here are a few things that came out of my situation that made me fragile. 

I don't believe you are fragile by any means. Many of us have the same issues and the same thoughts going through out minds. What I mean that it takes alot of strength to actually tell others about it and to just ask for help. You shouldn't believe for a moment that you're any less than someone else.

You obviously have a lot going on and I can't even begin to imagine how you are dealing with it all. Its very commendable.

You can easily find me on disc as usual

2EK521815K8885726

Free Week (12 TPE Capped)

$1M Player Store Cash (How to Claim)

5 TPE Uncapped

Hi @Agito

I can understand that feeling. While I don't know if I can help you at your phase currently, I'll be around if you just want to sit with someone, maybe listen to some music. I'm typically working but in between meetings I like to hang out and just play some music while I work. You're free to come join me and talk, or don't and we can just listen awhile together if that helps. No pressure, I find solace alot of times just being in the same room as others but not necessarily needing to interact with them.

Life is both amazing and hard at the same time and it doesn't come with instructions. What we choose to draw and the path we take is what defines us.

21 minutes ago, Tate said:

Feel free to talk to said victim in private.

I am in no way dragging someone back to question something that obviously hurt them. Are you sure you know how victim trauma affects people? Why is this even an option or something to consider.

21 minutes ago, Tate said:

To have been informed prior and then continue with the behaviour is breaking consent

This is literally not how consent works. It is not when someone has said "no". Its actually when you have not gained a "yes" and you proceed.

2 minutes ago, Tate said:

Apologize for not doing your due diligence and labeling me with breaking consent. When I had no prior knowledge at all, and if you want me to break out the word for word incident we can do that.

Maybe you should refer to your victim instead. The consent isn't decided by me but by them. Or are you implying I created a fake complaint against you so I could remove 12 tpe from you player?

5 minutes ago, Tate said:

Your blind to your severe punishments

I still don't know by what metric you think this is a severe punishment for a sexual harassment incident. If I take your player red lite and subtract 12 TPE from them, it comes out to 1% of your total tpe of which you had 167 banked. Consideration was taken to the context of the situation and prior history.

10 minutes ago, Tate said:

Sarcasm. The highest form of flattery.

I'm fairly certain the phrase is actually imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

8 minutes ago, Tate said:

You got it wrong, and you won’t own it. I deserve an apology. What you and your team did was wrong.

I will not apologize for giving you a 2 week suspension for harassment and making a member feel sexually harassed and unsafe in our community.

8 minutes ago, Tate said:

It’s not an attack, it’s an observation.

Please let me know how you observe me to be "blind" since it is indicative of a physical impairment for me to be unable to read what you are typing.

8 minutes ago, Tate said:

You have more than demonstrated your mindset and how much you value the league members.

Why thank you. I'm glad someone appreciates the hundreds of hours of unpaid time myself and all other staff members have put into the community in order to keep it growing and making it a place for some people to be for over 10 years.

8 minutes ago, Tate said:

Because of my viewpoints and how they differ to you.

Maybe if you figure out that viewpoints aren't right or wrong but the information used to garner such viewpoints can be, then you may come to an understanding of how you're just attempting to create circumstantial instances of trying to convince me the error of my ways to make yourself that the harassment complaint against you was completely unjustified.

13 minutes ago, Tate said:

I was never once contacted prior to the incident in October 2021.  YOU DID NOT DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE. 
 

Show the message sent to me prior to Oct 2021. 
 

It does not exist.

Your article was May 5, 2021. We were informed during during the investigation you had already been talked to. On that note, even if you disregard that, referencing that post you made already indicated that you should stop and the article was already disturbing to some people already so I mean that's kind of an indicator in itself.

13 minutes ago, Tate said:

Ridiculously severe punishment for something the incident itself. A warning was more than enough. Again, this is what shows how blind you are.

If you can't comprehend how light this is then I don't know what to tell you. But sure we can continue with the personal attack at me.

13 minutes ago, Tate said:

 

All cases are individual and unique. All should take proper time and care, none of which you sufficiently do. 

Again you're just throwing accusations and personal attacks here that I can't even follow. I mean you're free to have that opinion of course, I can't really stop you. Its unfortunate I don't have some kind of counter for me to time how long I've been serving here and the time I use to review issues.

13 minutes ago, Tate said:

Your whole mindset is not appropriate for your position. 

That just sounds like an opinion. Which of course you're free to have but maybe you should prefix it or add a conditional "IMO" for that since there is no real factual support provided for this.

13 minutes ago, Tate said:

For someone as smart as you, it’s surprising to see how you cannot see the error in your ways.

Feels like a kettle/teapot type argument. Let me put it this way, how do I know you're right and I'm wrong or vice versa? Or is this grounded in the theory that everything you say is correct and there are no fallacies (of which I already seemingly pointed out) in your own mindset?

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

 The Investigation - I was then informed I was being investigated, and stated my case.  In the meantime I worked on trying to repair the friendship with the member I offended.  I ended up being suspended for two weeks and the major reason for why was CONSENT.  I was stunned.  What on Earth for?  This began the rumor that persists to this day, and the very thing that you, Baozi, threw back at me in the previous forum fight that was false. Which is the FALSE fact that I had been warned previously to stop flirting with the member by management in the EFL. 

 

WRONG.  Never happened. 

 

Now, does that mean that the member who I offended never said anything to the EFL?  No.  But what it does mean is that I was never contacted by the EFL which means that your team did not do their due diligence when investigating my case! And you labeled me as betraying CONSENT WITHOUT CONFIRMING.  And here is a big giant middle finger to everyone of you who were involved in my suspension, and not doing your due diligence by confirming with the EFL. 

We were sent screenshots indicating at least 2 EFL mods were aware of the article/investigation and a reference made that a staff member had already reached out to speak to you about it. 

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

I should have been given the chance to do better, and instead I was punished.

You were given a 2 week suspension. In what way do you not think that this to give you a chance to do better? 

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

People like Kachur are the individuals we don't want, people like JRuutu - we do. 

What metric are you using to distinguish the two exactly? What is your threshold and experience in regards to either of them? How long have you interacted/observed them to arrive at this conclusion?

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

I literally work in adult education in my 9-5

I work with youth programming, refugees, adult training, and crisis counselling across southern Alberta in my 8-5. What is your point?

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

The old saying of, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks," is not true.  You can, so long as the dog wants to play. 

Teaching a dog new tricks can be both "how to think" and "what to think" and isn't mutually exclusive of either. Per Piaget formation theory, you begin critical thinking development at pre-teen so like 11-12 or something along those lines and generally can master deductive reasoning and relationship theory a few years after that. You can always develop further ability for critical thinking but logical operations required to have that is typically in place by the time you are 18. Hence the idea of a minor and reaching 18 is based on the psychology of being able to think for themselves and why we treat 18 year olds with adult rules.

43 minutes ago, Tate said:

None of your team members are qualified to hand out the punishments you are delivering.  Mistakes are not aloud when peoples psychological well being is at stake, as I have demonstrated above.  Such is why a new leadership model needs to be undertaken. 

I don't even understand this line of reasoning. Are you expecting that we only recruit persons graduated with degrees in law enforcement and human psychology in order to be mods? Do you understand that staff here are all volunteers?

I mean if you want to look at my educational background for example, I graduated with Communications degree with specialization in Law and society. I have a certification in project management, and passed psychological and RCMP background check for the highest level of security clearance in the country and have tested level 3 in several government certifications including analytical thinking, client service and adaptability and flexibility. I'm not quite sure what else you want for a qualification? Do you need my job experience? I was a project manager for 1 year in the healthcare industry, I've done 3 years as an investigations officer, 3 years as a National data analyst, and I'm currently 5 years into my current role which includes the afore mentioned programs I oversee, coordinate and write contracts for in my province.