S86 Brett Slobodzian Trophy Voting

[Beketov 9,101]

1 hour ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

and just like that we're entering mvp discussion yet again 

 

idc if his team did him dirty. Seattle wasnt even that bum team so all I see is he still has worse gaa and record and I will count this if I wanna decide who to vote here. 

As is your right by far. I’m just saying it’s the right of others to say that S% and SO means more than GAA and wins as far as being “outstanding” is concerned. Personally I voted for neither of them but I will always deem a better S% and more SO as being a better goalie over more wins and a better GAA.

[animal74 1,855]

6 hours ago, Victor said:

no, how do you not know about the filter lol?

 

Sounds like you just want more Malmo players on the ballot

 

This isn't the all star game, it's a vote for the 1 most outstanding player in the league. There is no need to bloat the ballot with the 2nd, 3rd, etc, best player in each position, if they're not clear cut the best in their position, they're not gonna be winning the Slobo. When the ballot is posted, BOG discussions for the awards have taken place so I know who's gonna win MVP, top goalie, top dman etc (or who the top 2 players will be if it's a close call). If they're not on the ballot, they're just not most outstanding. Maybe 5th or 6th most outstanding which is still pretty damn good but not 1st. The more players who have no real chance of winning, the more potential for a popularity contest or voting for your teammates.

I don't know about the filter - is that what it is? Oh man, I honestly never realized, haha. So, anytime someone writes "s**bbed" it changes? (Edit: And it did it again hence the asterisks!) Sorry @N0HBDY!

 

Also, in regards to the ballot, that's a good to know the BOG's perspective. I appreciate the explanation.

 

And, no, I honestly wasn't pushing Malmo  I just saw those performances.

 

4 hours ago, Beketov said:

Pretty much any time we’ve had something with write ins it becomes much less of valid options and much more of a popularity contest which the Slobo has already suffered as a bit for awhile.

 

As for having more on the ballot, we used to if you recall. I know when I used to do it the ballot was usually 10+ people. We kinda noticed though that it really was 2-3 battling it out, another 3-4 kinda getting a few votes but not really competing and the rest just getting 0 so it kinda became “why bother making such a huge list when we know who’s gonna get the votes”

 

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.

Edited January 5, 2023 by animal74

[Pifferfish 596]

10 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

Well shots blocked is also a double-edged sword as high numbers in that field means to me that you were dominated a lot during the season (i.e. done a poor or at least sub-par job on denying the puck/shot lanes)... I mean the record holder is creed with 400+ sb in one season in a team which got blasted out of the water that season... 

True, but on a good team like Chicago I think that arguement doesn't truly hold water. Like in the VHL, where did Chicago rank in terms of shots against? I'm assuming they are in the bottom half.

[Beketov 9,101]

5 hours ago, animal74 said:

I don't know about the filter - is that what it is? Oh man, I honestly never realized, haha. So, anytime someone writes "s**bbed" it changes?

That isn’t the only one but it is most certainly the oldest and most frequently used haha. I think the blues back in the day got annoyed by people saying they were snubbed from awards so there you go.

 

Also certain groups bypass the filter, blue privilege  

[Shindigs 1,771]

4 hours ago, Pifferfish said:

True, but on a good team like Chicago I think that arguement doesn't truly hold water. Like in the VHL, where did Chicago rank in terms of shots against? I'm assuming they are in the bottom half.

I didn't check at the end, but for most of the season we had the fewest shots against in the entire league.

[Daniel Janser 2,216]

18 minutes ago, Shindigs said:

I didn't check at the end, but for most of the season we had the fewest shots against in the entire league.

 

the fewest indeed... which makes your sb stat all the more remarkable... chapeau as the Italians say

[Shindigs 1,771]

Just for reference for the stat nerds. I compiled the hybrid era stats for all players and calculated the Z-scores for forward production and dman production. I filtered out all bots as they would skew the data and not really be relevant data points to what we're looking at.

Janser @Daniel Janser G: 2.24 / A: 2.23 / P: 2.38

Johansson G: -0.19 / A: 3.22 (hybrid era record) / P: 2.45

 

Now a lot more goes into what does/doesn't make an MVP than just raw offensive production. I'd just like to point out that forwards naturally score more than dmen in STHS, this isn't exactly news. So technically Bo's season offensively was more of an outlier than Janser's. But Bo also sucked absolute ass at scoring goals this season, literally having less goals than average for non-BOT dmen in the Hybrid era. So with people generally favoring goals over assists, there is that. The actual snub was Markinson not getting the Slobo in S84 tbh, he had a 3.07 Goal Z-score to Idaho's 2.08. But he's a dman so smaller numbers = less votes, cause who cares about forwards naturally farming more stats?

 

Some other notable standouts from this season:

 

Torq @Steve G: 2.62 (tied 3rd best in hybrid era)

Kisslinger @Kisslinger A: 2.44 (3rd best in hybrid era)

 

For those that don't know/remember what a Z-score is. It's simply how many standard deviations away from average a performance is. Assuming a normalized distribution, which we can assume for VHL scoring. The empirical rule states that 68% of all players end up +/- 1 or less Z-score, 95% are within +/- 2 and 99.7% are within +/- 3 So essentially anything above 2.0 is elite AF anything above 3.0 is pretty much inhuman.

 

The players closest to completely average this season were:
F - Henry Eagles at -0.03 Z-score and D - Logain Ablar at -0.01 Z-score

The fact neither was on DC upsets me greatly, would have made for good MID jokes tbh.

 

Interestingly enough 2 of the 3 worst forward seasons belong to Toronto, while Malmö has the questionable honor of holding 2 of the 3 worst dman seasons offensively.

[Daniel Janser 2,216]

4 minutes ago, Shindigs said:

But he's a dman so smaller numbers = less votes, cause who cares about forwards naturally farming more stats?

 

Not going to argue empiric data... I think BoJo is a worthy candidate for the Slobo and from a fact based POV should get the nod imo... however, I am an egoistic bastard and hope to win regardless (and if it is just to keep you at bay TPE wise)...

 

Also: Why should the VHL be different from the NHL(Ted Lindsay/Lester B. Pearson Award): In the last 20 years all but once (2015 Price) the trophy went to a forward and never to a defender (even though last season Makar as well as Josi had valid claims on it). In fact, the last (and only) time the award was given to a defender, was when Bobby Orr won it in 1975. I mean in the NHL there is at least footage you can look at and see how amazing players are... we do not have the luxury of that in the VHL and have to go by obscure data, some of which are clearly a team stat more than a individual one (yes +/- rating, I am looking at you).

 

Anyway congrats to your amazing season and to more to come...

[Shindigs 1,771]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Janser said:

Not going to argue empiric data... I think BoJo is a worthy candidate for the Slobo and from a fact based POV should get the nod imo... however, I am an egoistic bastard and hope to win regardless (and if it is just to keep you at bay TPE wise)...

 

Also: Why should the VHL be different from the NHL(Ted Lindsay/Lester B. Pearson Award): In the last 20 years all but once (2015 Price) the trophy went to a forward and never to a defender (even though last season Makar as well as Josi had valid claims on it). In fact, the last (and only) time the award was given to a defender, was when Bobby Orr won it in 1975. I mean in the NHL there is at least footage you can look at and see how amazing players are... we do not have the luxury of that in the VHL and have to go by obscure data, some of which are clearly a team stat more than a individual one (yes +/- rating, I am looking at you).

 

Anyway congrats to your amazing season and to more to come...

And you to yours, any insider info on it your player is going for the threepeat? Asking for a friend who needs to do predictions soon. 

[Daniel Janser 2,216]

30 minutes ago, Shindigs said:

And you to yours, any insider info on it your player is going for the threepeat? Asking for a friend who needs to do predictions soon. 

I am still waiting to fall off a cliff and with the depreciation looming on the horizon, I am hesitant to give any positive outlook on DJ's future performance

[Pifferfish 596]

16 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

Not going to argue empiric data... I think BoJo is a worthy candidate for the Slobo and from a fact based POV should get the nod imo... however, I am an egoistic bastard and hope to win regardless (and if it is just to keep you at bay TPE wise)...

 

Also: Why should the VHL be different from the NHL(Ted Lindsay/Lester B. Pearson Award): In the last 20 years all but once (2015 Price) the trophy went to a forward and never to a defender (even though last season Makar as well as Josi had valid claims on it). In fact, the last (and only) time the award was given to a defender, was when Bobby Orr won it in 1975. I mean in the NHL there is at least footage you can look at and see how amazing players are... we do not have the luxury of that in the VHL and have to go by obscure data, some of which are clearly a team stat more than a individual one (yes +/- rating, I am looking at you).

 

Anyway congrats to your amazing season and to more to come...

Bc in the real NHL Dmen don't put up 100 point seasons while being stellar defensively. I agree, Dmen should be looked at critically but I think with that defensive presence while being a puck moving force Bo deserved more than 17% is all. 

[Pifferfish 596]

Just now, Pifferfish said:

Bc in the real NHL Dmen don't put up 100 point seasons while being stellar defensively. I agree, Dmen should be looked at critically but I think with that defensive presence while being a puck moving force Bo deserved more than 17% is all. 

I think the main thing is just I wanted to start a discussion on stat analysis and how we observe each player's performance. @Daniel Janserlike the point of me saying anything wasn't to say Janser doesn't deserve to win at all but just point out that Goalies and Dmen are being way too overlooked when they are having amazing years. Like the split should be closer to DJ 40/BJ 35/DW 25

[Daniel Janser 2,216]

1 hour ago, Pifferfish said:

I think the main thing is just I wanted to start a discussion on stat analysis and how we observe each player's performance. @Daniel Janserlike the point of me saying anything wasn't to say Janser doesn't deserve to win at all but just point out that Goalies and Dmen are being way too overlooked when they are having amazing years. Like the split should be closer to DJ 40/BJ 35/DW 25

I do not disagree with you. BoJo has had an amazing season and the only fly in the ointment (as he mentioned himself) is his abysmal shooting percentage/lack of goal scoring.

[Shindigs 1,771]

3 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

I do not disagree with you. BoJo has had an amazing season and the only fly in the ointment (as he mentioned himself) is his abysmal shooting percentage/lack of goal scoring.

Yup, if Bo had ~average S% he would have essentially matched DJ point for point, but obviously with less goals more assists. If anything getting a 100+ point season with that S% makes me hopeful that Bo has even more potential than what he showed this season.

[AJW 2,194]

Dusty was the main reason Seattle made playoffs. Not one skater on that team over a point per game. Don’t know why people prefer Pearce when Dusty this season was literally 2015 Carey Price.

 

All the other candidates had help, Dusty solo squad wiped every game.

Edited January 7, 2023 by AJW

[Beketov 9,101]

1 hour ago, AJW said:

Dusty was the main reason Seattle made playoffs. Not one skater on that team over a point per game. Don’t know why people prefer Pearce when Dusty this season was literally 2015 Carey Price.

Because Slobo is most outstanding, not most valuable. Dusty was more valuable to his team but that doesn’t inherently make his stats better.

 

With that said I do believe his stats are better but being more valuable doesn’t inherently hold weight when it comes to the Slobo.