New Rookie Mentor Jobs

[AJW 1,744]

@Beketov I'm putting this here if you want to give it a read and in case others want to add on  From my theme week article this is the main job I'd want to highlight.

 

 

Rookie Mentors - Hires:  2-3, 4 TPE

 

Job Description: Assist and lead new members through their first steps in the VHL. Be the helping hand to guide players through the process of player creation, TPE Earning, Forum exploration and joining a VHLM team. You will also be mentoring new members through a rookie discord channel as well. 

 

Job Requirements:

• Active daily
• Able to work with others
• Have full knowledge of the VHL and how everything works
• Must have worked a league job prior to applying
• Able to help mentor in the discord channel for rookie draft class and on the forum

 

Rookie Head Mentor - Hires: 1, 6 TPE

 

Job Description: Assist and lead new members through their first steps in the VHL. Be the helping hand to guide players through the process of player creation, TPE Earning, Forum exploration and joining a VHLM team. You will also be in charge of all rookie mentors and the rookie discord server

 

Job Requirements:

• Active daily
• Able to work with others
• Have full knowledge of the VHL and how everything works
• Must have worked a league job prior to applying
• Able to run the discord channel for the rookie draft class
• Able to manage a team of 2-3 people, keeping up to date on all mentors

 

I would highly recommend we add a channel for our rookies in the VHL discord. Mentors, Commissioners and Blues would have full control over giving new members roles and communicating through that channel. No GMs or anyone else would have access.

 

I believe the SHL has this as well as SBA? When I first joined it was super easy to connect with people and the other prospects instead of just parading my GM. This got me learning more of who's out there in the community too. Same thing happened when I first joined here two years ago, my first sim league. I got in the VHL discord and met everyone so quick. If we had a team of people that new members could use at their disposal, then just having those extra resources could save us from losing a player.

 

You might ask how can we make sure people are getting the work done? Starting up that rookie discord channel would give you full access and literal receipts on who is doing what. If we set up a direct message on the forum with the new member and the mentor team, the head mentor can easily see who's responding.

 

If you're wondering about VHLM GM pay? I think it should stay the same. This Mentor team will be built as a stepping stone to the VHLM, and a resource to use if needed. VHLM GMs will still be expected to do exactly what they're doing now. This team is a replacement and improvement of Bek's lovely bot. If we set up a message bot, the mentors can easily connect with the new member and go from there. 

 

I don't think trying this out could hurt. Worst case scenario we just have extra helpers for new members.

[Spartan 3,997]

5 minutes ago, AJW said:

Job Description: Assist and lead new members through their first steps in the VHL. Be the helping hand to guide players through the process of player creation, TPE Earning, Forum exploration and joining a VHLM team. You will also be mentoring new members through a rookie discord channel as well. 

 

Job Requirements:

• Active daily
• Able to work with others
• Have full knowledge of the VHL and how everything works
• Must have worked a league job prior to applying
• Able to help mentor in the discord channel for rookie draft class and on the forum

I'm probably getting annoying about this, but I never got a response as to why this *can't* be the recruitment team themselves. You said you and Subject are grinding Instagram daily, and maybe this is the disconnect, but does Instagram/Twitter really take so much time in a day/week that it 1. merits 6 TPE weekly pay and 2. prevents you from doing the requirements of the mentor job you state here?

 

The only real concern if implemented would be the overlap of M jobs with mentor jobs, we wouldn't want that to occur. Beyond that, I still don't see why the Recruitment team can't be the ones responsible for this within their 6 TPE pay.

[Banackock 7,642]

I’m going to bed but I’ll leave you with this

 

https://vhlforum.com/forum/251-new-member-guide/

 

Does this area need updating idk

 

Good night VHL.

 

I support trying this neat idea. Collect some data for recruitment/retention and then see!  

[AJW 1,744]

9 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I'm probably getting annoying about this, but I never got a response as to why this *can't* be the recruitment team themselves. You said you and Subject are grinding Instagram daily, and maybe this is the disconnect, but does Instagram/Twitter really take so much time in a day/week that it 1. merits 6 TPE weekly pay and 2. prevents you from doing the requirements of the mentor job you state here?

 

The only real concern if implemented would be the overlap of M jobs with mentor jobs, we wouldn't want that to occur. Beyond that, I still don't see why the Recruitment team can't be the ones responsible for this within their 6 TPE pay.

 

I look at it as the Recruitment team would be able to primarily focus on getting members in, while this mentor team can be used as retention. I understand your concern with the Recruitment team's earnings and how we work but that's just not a question I can answer, would need to ask @thadthrasher. I'd be more than happy to do this but if we could create more jobs then why not.

 

I don't think it will overlap VHLM GMs if they do their job. Once a player joins their team it would be their full responsibility to handle the new player. The Mentor team introduces the baby steps and then VHLM GMs can put the training wheels on. By the time they go to the VHLE they're be riding on their own.

 

8 minutes ago, Banackock said:

I’m going to bed but I’ll leave you with this

 

https://vhlforum.com/forum/251-new-member-guide/

 

Does this area need updating idk

 

Good night VHL.

 

I support trying this neat idea. Collect some data for recruitment/retention and then see!  

 

Would you rather read this or ask specific questions to a human being full of answers. That's what the Mentor team is for. Instant answers while not getting lost on the scary forum when you join. Could be a warmer welcome in my opinion.

Edited July 5, 2023 by AJW

[Ricer13 2,592]

I do think this is something the recruitment team could take on. I wonder if we should have job limitations instead. 
 

For example, if you hold a job that requires a lot of your time like the recruitment team, commissioners, etc. that you be limited to that job and not be able to pick up any others. This allows your focus to be solely on that job. It also opens up jobs for other members in the league, creating a more interactive environment.

[AJW 1,744]

2 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

I do think this is something the recruitment team could take on. I wonder if we should have job limitations instead. 
 

For example, if you hold a job that requires a lot of your time like the recruitment team, commissioners, etc. that you be limited to that job and not be able to pick up any others. This allows your focus to be solely on that job. It also opens up jobs for other members in the league, creating a more interactive environment.

 

I'm really not against the Recruitment team doing this, I'd love to do it myself just no resources for it.

 

These are all suggestions anyways. The best way to do it is how I'd want it done so whatever that is, I'm in.

[Spartan 3,997]

12 minutes ago, AJW said:

I don't think it will overlap VHLM GMs if they do their job. Once a player joins their team it would be their full responsibility to handle the new player.

My response was mainly VHLM GM's serving as mentors as well, leading to conflict of interest. But with your response here, I guess my concern then is what area will the mentors cover that isn't already covered? Do we really need someone to point new players to the "join team" button in their manage player page? I don't think we've had many issues with that, if any. I just don't see where mentors will exist within the current creation process which is fairly streamlined already to lead directly onto a team after creation. That leaves the brief period between forum account creation and player creation - during which I don't think many users pause in.

[Beketov 8,642]

18 minutes ago, Ricer13 said:

if you hold a job that requires a lot of your time like the recruitment team, commissioners, etc. that you be limited to that job and not be able to pick up any others. This allows your focus to be solely on that job. It also opens up jobs for other members in the league, creating a more interactive environment.

Looks at @Josh and myself simming and being blue.

 

[Ricer13 2,592]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

Looks at @Josh and myself simming and being blue.

 

I definitely feel it should be task specific.
 

Something that requires a heavy workload like the Recruitment Team should have limitations. 

[AJW 1,744]

9 minutes ago, Spartan said:

My response was mainly VHLM GM's serving as mentors as well, leading to conflict of interest. But with your response here, I guess my concern then is what area will the mentors cover that isn't already covered? Do we really need someone to point new players to the "join team" button in their manage player page? I don't think we've had many issues with that, if any. I just don't see where mentors will exist within the current creation process which is fairly streamlined already to lead directly onto a team after creation. That leaves the brief period between forum account creation and player creation - during which I don't think many users pause in.

In my experience as a VHLM GM of 6 seasons, I’ve seen many players go through the system obviously and a lot of them are just mid tier players. I get VHLM GMs do a lot of teaching and mentoring, but I can’t believe they hit all the targets. Even some AGMs come in with only a little more experience as when they first joined. I’m not saying people are under qualified I’m just saying having a team of VHL experts to lead players through the creation steps could fill in a lot of holes that GMs may miss. There’s no way you can expect a VHLM GM to give 10-15 players the exact same perfect knowledge needed every season. After seasons of saying the same things, maybe they miss something. We aren’t robots, and I’m not implying you’re saying we are, but yeah I hope that makes sense. The Mentors can have every basic done from the beginning.

 

I’m surely not perfect. I miss things I’m human. Extra help is not a bad thing, having a team of helpers plus your own GM and AGM to help you through the start can’t hurt at all. VHLM GMs can sign a player with their skates fully tied ready to go instead of a random member walking in clueless. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

[AJW 1,744]

@Spartan to add on. This is all about boosting TPE average earnings and building knowledge for our new players. I couldn’t care less who does it, I just want more of it done!

[FrostBeard 1,975]

To me, mentor programs (It is something that has come up in discussions every few months) are something that we don't really need. 

For VHLM, it is their main goal to be there for retention and creating a fun and exciting atmosphere for everyone who joins and needs help on their first few steps towards VHLE and VHL. 

My real question is - how many first gen players are on each VHLM team. 
We have 10 GMs. I would expect that we have around 10/15 semi-active/active players join the league every season. Even if that number is 30 or 40 that would mean that around 3 to 6 players would need to be guided by VHLM GM. 

I think that is very much possible to do. 

[AJW 1,744]

7 minutes ago, FrostBeard said:

To me, mentor programs (It is something that has come up in discussions every few months) are something that we don't really need. 

For VHLM, it is their main goal to be there for retention and creating a fun and exciting atmosphere for everyone who joins and needs help on their first few steps towards VHLE and VHL. 

My real question is - how many first gen players are on each VHLM team. 
We have 10 GMs. I would expect that we have around 10/15 semi-active/active players join the league every season. Even if that number is 30 or 40 that would mean that around 3 to 6 players would need to be guided by VHLM GM. 

I think that is very much possible to do. 

Look at Miami lol! That’s not relevant at all but why are we not pushing for expansion? Why are we not setting up better development methods for players to easily enter our league? Why do we still have a bot?! I want our members to be able to connect with someone right away and have full guidance into the league. You walk into a new place and don’t know where to go, would you rather ask the guy in the tour guide hat or just read a paper, that’s how I am thinking.

 

This is why I wanted to take over the Instagram, and be a VHLM GM I just want more people flocking in. And the more we get, the more help we’re gonna need. Maybe this idea is premature and we need more members to join before actually establishing something. But my argument is also why not start now, create a good system, and then we’ll be swimming.

[Beketov 8,642]

6 minutes ago, AJW said:

why are we not pushing for expansion?

Because we don't have the players? The problem with the VHLM especially for expansion is that the spots don't just need to be open NOW they need to be open long term. We've seen before the VHLM expand super fast and then be over half empty when we have a poor recruitment season, it's incredibly volatile.

 

7 minutes ago, AJW said:

Why do we still have a bot?!

I would argue do they automatically associate the post from coming from a bot? I'm not gonna say it isn't a bit obvious, because it is, but it's not like the post is made by "WelcomeBot 9000" or something; it lists it as me. If people want to ask questions in there they are more than welcome to, the same as they are more than welcome to ask in the welcome PM. I have and will continue to respond to both and would encourage others to do the same in the post. I just wonder if you aren't focusing a bit much on it being a bot and not enough on it still being an immediate place where new members are tagged and invited to ask questions by, as far as they can immediately see anyway, a member of staff.

[Spartan 3,997]

16 minutes ago, AJW said:

In my experience as a VHLM GM of 6 seasons, I’ve seen many players go through the system obviously and a lot of them are just mid tier players. I get VHLM GMs do a lot of teaching and mentoring, but I can’t believe they hit all the targets. Even some AGMs come in with only a little more experience as when they first joined. I’m not saying people are under qualified I’m just saying having a team of VHL experts to lead players through the creation steps could fill in a lot of holes that GMs may miss. There’s no way you can expect a VHLM GM to give 10-15 players the exact same perfect knowledge needed every season. After seasons of saying the same things, maybe they miss something. We aren’t robots, and I’m not implying you’re saying we are, but yeah I hope that makes sense. The Mentors can have every basic done from the beginning.

 

I’m surely not perfect. I miss things I’m human. Extra help is not a bad thing, having a team of helpers plus your own GM and AGM to help you through the start can’t hurt at all. VHLM GMs can sign a player with their skates fully tied ready to go instead of a random member walking in clueless. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I still don't get why we need a team of VHL experts between forum account creation and player creation though. There are maybe like, 5-10 minutes between those two events in most cases. I don't think player creation is nearly as complex as this is making it out to be. 

 

After creation, I can see your point. But we've had this mentors conversation with the M GM's and in BoG before, and the BoG agreed that we're not going to create a league mentor program for players when they have M GM's who are responsible for the exact same things, and M AGM's who assist in these areas. This was before Gus and I became commish, and also before the new waiver system. When we came on board, we made/introduced those changes and also increased job pay for you guys since we know you have to work with 5-15 players every season to get them all the information they need. We intentionally made your lives easier in one area to give you more time in other areas - specifically the hands on portion.

 

However, we told M GM's that they're free to add people within their servers as unpaid mentors with roles as such. I can go back through the BoG thread and give you names of people who were willing to serve in that role, veterans who just exist in your LR and assist if you and your AGM aren't present. I'm sure you can find more around the community if you just ask, people just don't want to be press conference bots or do lines/roster management things. I don't think any teams actually tried to do that back then though, or up through today.

 

7 minutes ago, AJW said:

That’s not relevant at all but why are we not pushing for expansion?

Nowhere near full:

 

8 minutes ago, AJW said:

Why are we not setting up better development methods for players to easily enter our league?

What specifically are the development methods proposed here beyond someone else who does what we expect M GM's to do? And the TPE checklist which I'm fine with existing if Josh is willing to develop it (though I think it's tougher or impossible to do with this forum vs the SHL's since theirs is more customizable - perks of their forum ig), but absolutely does not change the responsibilities of our M GMs.

 

[FrostBeard 1,975]

1 minute ago, AJW said:

Look at Miami lol!

Should I also look at teams that have 0 or maybe 1 new players?

I am not saying that we shouldn't work on methods how to work with new members on how to work with their players, updates BUT as I see it - the problem is VHLM. 
We have to figure out a better way how to make sure that VHLM prospects are fairly evenly split between teams. 

To me, when a new member joins the league, when they select their team, there should only be 2 options of teams to choose, maybe 3, so that players would be equally split.

One of those options is making sure that IF your player stays for more than 3 seasons in VHLM, the player is either forced to go into VHLE FA or just needs to retire. I am aware that certain measures have been taken in this regard. 

I think the spirit of this post is right up there - it is a good idea in the princple that we should work MORE with our new players. To me - it is the job of a GM.
 

[Alex 2,870]

1 hour ago, AJW said:

Job Requirements:

• Active daily
• Able to work with others
• Have full knowledge of the VHL and how everything works
• Must have worked a league job prior to applying
• Able to help mentor in the discord channel for rookie draft class and on the forum

So, I'll just put what was the BOG consensus here and to be completely transparent I re-started the conversation on this in BOG in February of 2022 (note: is the reason why VHLM GMs get paid 4 TPE per week and not 2). While the conversation did go on for a while here are the key points:

- Automated team selection process allows for players to get straight on a team as easily as possible

- considerable overlap with VHLM GM/AGM duties
- Players are welcome to post questions in the discord or on forums and people already answer them quickly
- M GM's are free to appoint mentors to help out already
- The Idea was pitched to M GMs at the time and they shot it down
- The only time of the season where mentors would be needed is the offseason and the JST already exists

 

 

[Beketov 8,642]

5 minutes ago, Spartan said:

though I think it's tougher or impossible to do with this forum

I don't think we could have an actual checklist, at least not without installing a mod (which I can look into if there is anything) but if we just wanted a list with links in the sidebar of weekly tasks to complete that is incredibly easy. You can basically add anything you can to a normal comment box into a sidebar post.

[Lemorse7 898]

Apply

[AJW 1,744]

13 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I still don't get why we need a team of VHL experts between forum account creation and player creation though. There are maybe like, 5-10 minutes between those two events in most cases. I don't think player creation is nearly as complex as this is making it out to be. 

 

After creation, I can see your point. But we've had this mentors conversation with the M GM's and in BoG before, and the BoG agreed that we're not going to create a league mentor program for players when they have M GM's who are responsible for the exact same things, and M AGM's who assist in these areas. This was before Gus and I became commish, and also before the new waiver system. When we came on board, we made/introduced those changes and also increased job pay for you guys since we know you have to work with 5-15 players every season to get them all the information they need. We intentionally made your lives easier in one area to give you more time in other areas - specifically the hands on portion.

 

However, we told M GM's that they're free to add people within their servers as unpaid mentors with roles as such. I can go back through the BoG thread and give you names of people who were willing to serve in that role, veterans who just exist in your LR and assist if you and your AGM aren't present. I'm sure you can find more around the community if you just ask, people just don't want to be press conference bots or do lines/roster management things. I don't think any teams actually tried to do that back then though, or up through today.

 

Nowhere near full:

 

What specifically are the development methods proposed here beyond someone else who does what we expect M GM's to do? And the TPE checklist which I'm fine with existing if Josh is willing to develop it (though I think it's tougher or impossible to do with this forum vs the SHL's since theirs is more customizable - perks of their forum ig), but absolutely does not change the responsibilities of our M GMs.

 

Who the fuck is gonna be a mentor in the M for no job pay

[AJW 1,744]

1 minute ago, AJW said:

Who the fuck is gonna be a mentor in the M for no job pay

I did not quote that correctly at all wow

[Lemorse7 898]

9 minutes ago, Alex said:

- The Idea was pitched to M GMs at the time and they shot it down

boooo M gms

[AJW 1,744]

16 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 

What specifically are the development methods proposed here beyond someone else who does what we expect M GM's to do? And the TPE checklist which I'm fine with existing if Josh is willing to develop it (though I think it's tougher or impossible to do with this forum vs the SHL's since theirs is more customizable - perks of their forum ig), but absolutely does not change the responsibilities of our M GMs.

 

It’s extra help! It’s extra resources for new members. It’s more ways to growing our members is how I’m seeing it. And like I said before I don’t think GMs hit every single target

Edited July 5, 2023 by AJW

[Beketov 8,642]

11 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I don't think we could have an actual checklist, at least not without installing a mod (which I can look into if there is anything) but if we just wanted a list with links in the sidebar of weekly tasks to complete that is incredibly easy. You can basically add anything you can to a normal comment box into a sidebar post.

Quoting myself because that's fun haha.

 

I have found you can run custom code blocks in the sidebar so in theory we could probably build this pretty easily using just like HTML.

[Ricer13 2,592]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Quoting myself because that's fun haha.

 

I have found you can run custom code blocks in the sidebar so in theory we could probably build this pretty easily using just like HTML.

The SHL just recently implemented a check list system that updates in the main forum page each week. It’s extremely helpful and each item in the checklist takes you right to the page you need to go when you click on it.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ricer13