Second players for new members

[FacePuncher 1,343]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

While I agree in that my hastey response came off condescending, a dialogue is more than one comment or opinion. The purpose of me letting him know my actual intent was to help clarify that I was actually just interested in some detailed thoughts on how it was complicated.

 

As for the blanket responses. Are people afraid of being human? It's why I no longer go and edit or delete posts such as the one in question. I'm not trying to portray myself as some perfect poster. If this exact conversation where to happen in real life, it'd be as simple as me saying that my intent wasn't to be condescending and it would roll on. 

 

As a mostly random aside, there seems to be a great many and likely I'm in the minority regarding this, but many people try to type and converse on the internet distinctly different then how they would in person. I often lean more towards trying to come off how I would in person. In this particular case, I saw another post critical of how complicated the idea was without actually mentioning why, just off work and hungry, and instantly responded, which came off super condescending. 

People make mistakes I understand, I post hastily too, I'm just saying it can be taken the wrong way obviously.

 

and it's not being 'afraid of being human', it's not liking to be attacked! I have many instances about this I can draw upon, but there's one in particular you were a part of. I quoted Victor and said 'ewwwwww' on one of his suggestions, and you were trying to get me to elaborate why since you didn't like my not thought out train of thought. But in the original thread with that suggestion I posted in there probably around my first full season here, and I saw members and admins at each other's throats, with admins calling members stupid, telling them they obviously didn't know how things worked, and just in general ripping them for their suggestion and getting into a multi page fight. Having that experience, and others, as a member why in the world would I WANT to expand on my thought, knowing it'll just invite that sort of thing onto myself, which I hate. It's not that I'm afraid of criticism, it's that it seems like too often that 'criticism' turns into disparaging comments, attacks, and just general bickering that gets nowhere.

[Devise 4,475]

7 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

People make mistakes I understand, I post hastily too, I'm just saying it can be taken the wrong way obviously.

 

and it's not being 'afraid of being human', it's not liking to be attacked! I have many instances about this I can draw upon, but there's one in particular you were a part of. I quoted Victor and said 'ewwwwww' on one of his suggestions, and you were trying to get me to elaborate why since you didn't like my not thought out train of thought. But in the original thread with that suggestion I posted in there probably around my first full season here, and I saw members and admins at each other's throats, with admins calling members stupid, telling them they obviously didn't know how things worked, and just in general ripping them for their suggestion and getting into a multi page fight. Having that experience, and others, as a member why in the world would I WANT to expand on my thought, knowing it'll just invite that sort of thing onto myself, which I hate. It's not that I'm afraid of criticism, it's that it seems like too often that 'criticism' turns into disparaging comments, attacks, and just general bickering that gets nowhere.

 

Fair. But I will also argue that post/thread you saw was older, and as you can clearly see we have at least been trying to be more open to new suggestions and ideas. I won't pretend that we still don't have very dismissive attitudes here, however when someone like myself and others make attempts to bridge that gap, be less dismissive and hear some of the newer/less old school members it'd be nice if the counter jab so to speak was actually targeted at the dismissive people. Remember just because several members of the same sub groups or VHL experience share some opinions it's not always a mob mentality. There are those of us here that are trying to listen, and open that dialogue as well. 

[Molholt 2,183]

Yes, I'm just against any new additions obviously...

 

*checks to see who made this whole initial suggestion* 

 

Wait a minute... It was me! I'm not against changes, I'm one of the members that are most for it in this league. I'm against taking a simple addition and making it complex and convoluted. 

 

There is nothing wrong with a new member joining and then waiting 3 seasons to create a second like everyone else. 

[Molholt 2,183]

And yeah @Victor, me saying I don't want to have a discussion with someone who started his portion of the discussion by belittling me is ME being immature. Makes sense.

[scoop 3,258]

Just looking at this from my perspective, I would personally want to wait a few seasons before creating a second player anyway. When I was new, I wasn't hyper active, just getting a feel for the league in my first couple of seasons. I what I probably would've done if this had been a thing back then would've been created a second player a few seasons after I had my first and then focused on my second player as my main guy, knowing that I could make him better than I could've made my first dude. But that's just my perspective and I guess some people might think otherwise.

As far as this being too much, I definitely think it is. I don't think it's necessarily and it just brings added complication to the league. It brings in a second update scale that updaters have to get familiar with. As someone who this wouldn't really be relevant to, it might slip my mind and if I'm talking with a newer member I might feed misinformation because of it. Someone who has different update scales on two players could easily just make a mistake and use the wrong scale for one player because mistakes happen, and that's more for the updater to deal with again and it's not like they aren't already doing more work than their job pays them for.

 

I guess I don't know what was said in this conversation with the Yukon peeps, but I don't really see a need for this. But I guess that's just because I can't see this from the perspective of someone who would want to make a second player immediately. You know there will be members who ask "so I have to do two point tasks a week?" when of course you don't have to but that's how they'll view it. Members could burnout real quickly if they try to take on too much by creating two players right away.

[Devise 4,475]

2 hours ago, Molholt said:

And yeah @Victor, me saying I don't want to have a discussion with someone who started his portion of the discussion by belittling me is ME being immature. Makes sense.

 

If you honesty believe I was belittling you....come on dude. I've preached tons about you and your contributions here. I got frustrated by the vague response and posted. And immediately clarified. After your other post your opinion is far more clear and I appreciate that. But no need to make a bigger deal out of this then it is.

[Evans 305]

I feel like we are making this all way too confusing lol

[FacePuncher 1,343]

Yeah I think we should have people wait. I like this idea now, but that's because I have a bit under my belt. It's just like in the SBA, where they allow 2 players. Now That I'm in my final year in college I'm looking forward to having my second player in the NCAA, but before I could barely keep up with one! I think it would be beneficial to let all new members learn how to create one player before we give them two

[Will 4,604]

 

On 5/29/2016 at 1:50 PM, ADwyer87 said:

and I saw members and admins at each other's throats, with admins calling members stupid, telling them they obviously didn't know how things worked, and just in general ripping them for their suggestion and getting into a multi page fight.

 

we really need to rid ourselves of these entitled 'admin' mofos IMO