VFL - An American Football Sim Idea

[atw2592 286]

The "Victory Football League" would be an American Football sim league being run on Madden 08 for PC, the last Madden game to be released for PC. Games would be simmed through Twitch streams, which allows for chat while the game is being broadcasted. The main reason why I want to be affiliated with the VHL is so both leagues can work together to generate new members at the VHL, and help the initial member base at the VFL. There was a ton of interest in the USFL, which used the same simming format before the site was 404'd suddenly for reasons unknown.

 

@Molholt @Dangles13 @evrydayimbyfuglien are on board with helping create this league, and we will go on with it no matter if the VHL wants to have anything to do with it or not. I don't know if I'm overstepping my boundaries here, but I'd like to think that a VHL/VFL collaboration would involve some TPE incentives for both leagues. For example, a VHL member who creates a new player at the VFL would start with 35 initial TPE instead of 30 or something like that. Vice versa, a member of the VFL who creates a new player in the VHL would receive 35 initial TPE instead of 30. We could also do this with point tasks, such as writing a media spot worth 6 TPE in the VFL could be carried over and used on their VHL player.

 

I hope this thread can generate a lot of interest and input from people interested in seeing a Madden sim league succeed. They are really one of a kind.

 

@YEAH!stlemania @DollarAndADream @Draper @Higgins 

[atw2592 286]

Here is an example of a game simmed in the USFL:

 

https://www.twitch.tv/usfl/v/70773274

[sterling 2,000]

Of course you'll have the VHL's blessing.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

Count me in to sit there and create a player

[solas 1,952]

I'll definitely join whenever it ends up happening.

[Dangles13 373]

10 minutes ago, sterling said:

Of course you'll have the VHL's blessing.

But what about the VHLM?

[sterling 2,000]

29 minutes ago, Dangles13 said:

But what about the VHLM?

I speak for them too

[JardyB10 4,869]

More like the VFL II.

[DollarAndADream 3,357]

Yeah, I'm definitely in.

[Shaka 228]

I'd be in obviously. I suggest that anyone who is going to create this league to look into it what it takes to run one first. Madden PC leagues are not for the faint of heart.

[atw2592 286]

7 hours ago, Shaka said:

I'd be in obviously. I suggest that anyone who is going to create this league to look into it what it takes to run one first. Madden PC leagues are not for the faint of heart.

Yeah, it definitely sucks. My idea was to have 2 people work on updating the file each week so I don't get burnt out. I haven't heard from anyone who is decent at editing Madden custom art either, that's another thing to worry about. 

 

I do have a roster editor downloaded, which will make things easier from a roster creation and updating standpoint.

 

The only other thing I can think of is statistics, which could be tricky. I thought of maybe having a league statistician who gets paid full cap (i.e. 9/9) to just do statistics after each sim. Having 12 game seasons instead of 16 might help with that too.

[sterling 2,000]

There must be some sort of American football simulator engine?

[Molholt 2,185]

I think the days of a Madden league is dead. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Bemetz up and left, because he realized the workload.

 

The statkeeping is a beast to deal with and relies on too many people. It also requires a lot of computer streaming dedication, hours at a time. 

 

The SHL, VHL and SBA are all text-based sims and have survived. Madden leagues keep failing and I think I have an idea why - Madden. Someone needs to do the PFS route but do it the way the VHL does it - just post box scores. None of the PBP/presentation stuff that requires the time commitment that Madden sims do, without the coolness of seeing Madden.

 

If someone creates it I'll be there to see it, but I'm never very optimistic anymore. I thought it might work with some of the mods I've seen, but I've toyed around with the idea, opened Madden back up, and thought more on it and I just don't think its feasible. 

[atw2592 286]

13 minutes ago, Molholt said:

I think the days of a Madden league is dead. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Bemetz up and left, because he realized the workload.

 

The statkeeping is a beast to deal with and relies on too many people. It also requires a lot of computer streaming dedication, hours at a time. 

 

The SHL, VHL and SBA are all text-based sims and have survived. Madden leagues keep failing and I think I have an idea why - Madden. Someone needs to do the PFS route but do it the way the VHL does it - just post box scores. None of the PBP/presentation stuff that requires the time commitment that Madden sims do, without the coolness of seeing Madden.

 

If someone creates it I'll be there to see it, but I'm never very optimistic anymore. I thought it might work with some of the mods I've seen, but I've toyed around with the idea, opened Madden back up, and thought more on it and I just don't think its feasible. 

Streaming on Madden wouldn't be bad at all, just start up the game and let your computer sit until it's done. I agree, all the other shit is a pain in the ass. I think I'm willing to take it on once a full plan is formulated though.

 

On the PFS sim idea, I think that might actually work better than Madden if it's going to be affiliated with VHL. I really have no familiarity with the PFS engine, but I've been in PFS sim leagues before and they are still pretty fun.

Edited June 16, 2016 by atw925

[Shaka 228]

Madden sim leagues have always been doomed by their own Catch 22. The idea of watching your own player play is incredibly enticing, but it comes with much more work. It seems you're already aware of stat-keeping which is the biggest headache of them all. I'd venture to say you would need more than just one stat keeper. Past leagues employed 4-6 member who each had a position. You'd also want more than just you presenting games, which takes not only owning the game but the desire to tie your computer up simulating decade old game between two terrible teams on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. If the simming, updating and stat-keeping doesn't kill you the last obstacle is dealing with the fucktards who liter the Madden sim community and drag it down. You know... the guys in every madden sim league who never make it to any other league(I don't count, i'm special).

 

With that said, it's not impossible to do. 4 teams would require 52 players to fill the necessary positions. That's a reachable number for the first season, but an unlikely number to sustain at. That means you would also have to be willing to maintain the league at roughly 30 updating players(the average of the past 5 football leagues) which is just enough to cover the very important positions and leaves the remaining positions for inactives. That is unless you decide to let 1 offensive and 1 defensive player per member. It's never been done before, would answer your long term roster situation but create twice as much issue with updating and stat keeping.

 

Being that it's endorsed by the VHL it JUST might convince the several members who refuse to join new leagues until they are 6-8 seasons in. That's always been a circle of death for football leagues. League created, Member X doesn't want to join until league is established, league struggles to established without guys like Member X, league fails, repeat. Grabbing the holdouts and fringe members would be important if you didn't go 2 players per member.

 

All of that comes with one final side effect..... The simulator is awful. Players make horrible decisions, glitches all over, balls gliding through the arms of defenders, balls bouncing off face masks of 90 rated receivers, left tackles blocking the ghost of Derrick Thomas giving up 6 sacks a game, kickers missing chip shots and the dreaded madden comeback in every. single. game.

 

It's a lot to deal with. Not impossible, but a lot to deal with.

---------------------

 

A PFS(or draft day sports now) league, like the one Molholt and I tried to get off the ground 2 years ago ironically also called the USFL, seems to be the only logical future sim engine for a football sim. Unlike Madden, it offers the convenience of a league report and postable box scores. That seems to be something fairly important to the only 3 active and successful player sims around this community(VHL, SHL, SBA). Standings, Stats, Records and more kept on a uploadable league report. The option for players to play two-ways if you decide against 2 players per member. Easy to post PBP. The problem in the past for those leagues is that a major group of members refuse to join a football league that isn't Madden. If they were to come around and be interested in a PFS league it has way more potential for longevity.

 

Anyways.... I own both games. I know Madden well and know PFS like the back of my hand. Whatever happens I'll join and likely help out if needed.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Shaka

[atw2592 286]

I kind of forgot about PFS, to be honest. Like I said, I don't know that engine so I couldn't really help with bot players, simming, uploading files, or any of that. I could help with anything else, though.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

1 minute ago, atw2592 said:

I kind of forgot about PFS, to be honest. Like I said, I don't know that engine so I couldn't really help with bot players, simming, uploading files, or any of that. I could help with anything else, though.

 

There is always need for someone to help around the boards.

[Tagger 2,722]

Quote

All of that comes with one final side effect..... The simulator is awful. Players make horrible decisions, glitches all over, balls gliding through the arms of defenders, balls bouncing off face masks of 90 rated receivers, left tackles blocking the ghost of Derrick Thomas giving up 6 sacks a game, kickers missing chip shots and the dreaded madden comeback in every. single. game.

 

In all honesty, and this is as someone who would love for PFS to be great as it really would be of benefit to the player sim community, as a simulator of football I thought it had just as many, if not more, problems than Madden. I haven't touched it since the USFL, but I remember problems with time management (there would be no attacking impetus or efforts to stop the clock for a team a score down with little time remaining, I found that to be more frustrating that Madden Magic), glitched plays (HB draw play had the defensive team actively RUN AWAY from the ball carrier, end arounds were treated like a direct snap to the Wide Receiver), kick returns that would leave the team within their own 5 yard line multiple times a game and, in general, I found it struggled simulating games with low attribute players more than Madden did. Also, as someone whose been in Madden leagues since 06, some of those issues you bring up I've never encountered (If anything, kickers were too good (Although I'll admit 08 did occassionally have a problem with it, that's why I always go with 07). Left Tackles never gave up sacks as most sacks typically came from the right, and if there were a lot of sacks on the right side (never more than 3 typically) was more down to people not knowing how to build their OL correctly).

Edited June 16, 2016 by YEAH!stlemania

[solas 1,952]

1 hour ago, atw2592 said:

Yeah, it definitely sucks. My idea was to have 2 people work on updating the file each week so I don't get burnt out. I haven't heard from anyone who is decent at editing Madden custom art either, that's another thing to worry about. 

 

I do have a roster editor downloaded, which will make things easier from a roster creation and updating standpoint.

 

The only other thing I can think of is statistics, which could be tricky. I thought of maybe having a league statistician who gets paid full cap (i.e. 9/9) to just do statistics after each sim. Having 12 game seasons instead of 16 might help with that too.

If you're sticking with Madden I can definitely help with custom art.  I haven't done it for any sim leagues but I have done custom art casually for myself since I have Madden 08 for PC (don't know if I'd want to sim though).

[Shaka 228]

12 minutes ago, YEAH!stlemania said:

 

In all honesty, and this is as someone who would love for PFS to be great as it really would be of benefit to the player sim community, as a simulator of football I thought it had just as many, if not more, problems than Madden. I haven't touched it since the USFL, but I remember problems with time management (there would be no attacking impetus or efforts to stop the clock for a team a score down with little time remaining, I found that to be more frustrating that Madden Magic), glitched plays (HB draw play had the defensive team actively RUN AWAY from the ball carrier, end arounds were treated like a direct snap to the Wide Receiver), kick returns that would leave the team within their own 5 yard line multiple times a game and, in general, I found it struggled simulating games with low attribute players more than Madden did. Also, as someone whose been in Madden leagues since 06, some of those issues you bring up I've never encountered (If anything, kickers were too good (Although I'll admit 08 did occassionally have a problem with it, that's why I always go with 07). Left Tackles never gave up sacks as most sacks typically came from the right, and if there were a lot of sacks on the right side (never more than 3 typically) was more down to people not knowing how to build their OL correctly).

 

PFS has it's issue for sure, but so does every league. FBB has a handful of PBP issues. OOTP has had it's share of PBP issues. They're not there for the whole league to watch on a live twitch stream is all I am saying. That and the best teams consistently won in the USFL despite it's handful of PBP quirks. I'm not saying PFS is perfect by no means. I'm just sharing with anyone who wants to potentially put a league together that there are several aspects you need to think about.

 

Are you thinking about helping the league get off the ground? Present games? etc. I assume you own the game as you've been a pretty big staple of the football community to my knowledge.

[JPL 151]

isn't this like the third football league?

[DollarAndADream 3,357]

1 hour ago, JPL said:

isn't this like the third football league?

Trying to make one that doesn't flop, with a good core base of VHLers and more planning.

[atw2592 286]

8 hours ago, JPL said:

isn't this like the third football league?

This would be like the 20th football league. I've been around since the first couple and have seen the good ones (MSFLR, FSJ, ISL) and the bad ones, so I'm confident we can be the next good one with the right staff and gameplan.

[Tagger 2,722]

21 hours ago, Shaka said:

 

Are you thinking about helping the league get off the ground? Present games? etc. I assume you own the game as you've been a pretty big staple of the football community to my knowledge.

It would depend. I firmly believe at this point that we should implement a shared-PT system with the VHL and how bringing that in would be beneficial to both parties. If we were to bring something like that in, I'd have no problems making a significant contribution to the league. Whether that happens or not though, I'm always prepared to offer advice in looking for the best ways to setting up/running a league. 

[atw2592 286]

Hoping to get a test sim on Twitch in sometime tonight. Check back to this thread for more info.