Remove 2 TPE per week review limit

[Beketov 9,023]

5 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

One of the reasons you can't claim more then 2 TPE a week on grading is the fact no other job allows you to fill in TPE when you haven't done a PT. If I don't do a PT this week, I can't just go out and update more than my conference to make up for it.

Thing is though, all jobs are not created equal. You knew going into updating that you have x amount of players to update and you get paid y amount to do it. With reviews we have varying levels of work depending on the week and we get paid depending on how much we do. So long as you update you get paid the same amount. If I review 4 things I get paid differently than if I review 12 things.

 

It's true that no other job allows for the ability to go and fill in TPE but that's because all the other jobs have a set pay for a set amount of work. That rigidity doesn't make sense with the PT staff since our pay is fluid depending on how much we do. As it stands putting a limit on it basically tells us "you got 8 reviews done, you might as well stop since you aren't getting paid anything more anyway." and the ability to bank those extra reviews just says "hey look, you can slack off for 2 weeks and let things fall behind."

 

I can either do all the work that's needed every week and bank a bunch of TPE I will never be able to use OR slack off 8 reviews in and have things sit forever. If we remove the limit we get the best of both worlds; everything gets graded in a good amount of time and PT staff are motivated to do more.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Beketov

[Victor 10,938]

I may have had sympathy back in the day of meaningful grading, especially the day of 8 or even 10 grades for 1 TPE.

 

But why are you even grading more than you need? PTs are just auto 6 so it's not like you're holding anyone up? Just do your 8 when you feel like it and call it a week.

 

Alternatively, bring back the old scale. Seriously wtf, people get paid 1 TPE for writing 4 lines now? I think we should scale back to 8/10 TPE per grade.

[Beketov 9,023]

1 minute ago, Victor said:

I may have had sympathy back in the day of meaningful grading, especially the day of 8 or even 10 grades for 1 TPE.

 

But why are you even grading more than you need? PTs are just auto 6 so it's not like you're holding anyone up? Just do your 8 when you feel like it and call it a week.

 

Alternatively, bring back the old scale. Seriously wtf, people get paid 1 TPE for writing 4 lines now? I think we should scale back to 8/10 TPE per grade.

It's auto 6 but I k ow that people still take our feedback to help gem in the future. I know I hate posting something and not seeing reviews for over 2 weeks so I'm sure others do as well. You can claim it but it's still nice to have. Keep in mind to, there's no real discussion with GFX like MS' have. 

 

Also, I agree that some reviews are way too short for the pay which is why I do my best to give longer ones. When I see 30+ reviews to do they shorten up but usually I try to go through all the major points of a sit in my reviews.

[frescoelmo 1,276]

5 minutes ago, Victor said:

I may have had sympathy back in the day of meaningful grading, especially the day of 8 or even 10 grades for 1 TPE.

 

But why are you even grading more than you need? PTs are just auto 6 so it's not like you're holding anyone up? Just do your 8 when you feel like it and call it a week.

 

Alternatively, bring back the old scale. Seriously wtf, people get paid 1 TPE for writing 4 lines now? I think we should scale back to 8/10 TPE per grade.

 

I've never agreed with you more babe

[Kendrick 4,741]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

Thing is though, all jobs are not created equal. You knew going into updating that you have x amount of players to update and you get paid y amount to do it. With reviews we have varying levels of work depending on the week and we get paid depending on how much we do. So long as you update you get paid the same amount. If I review 4 things I get paid differently than if I review 12 things.

 

It's true that no other job allows for the ability to go and fill in TPE but that's because all the other jobs have a set pay for a set amount of work. That rigidity doesn't make sense with the PT staff since our pay is fluid depending on how much we do. As it stands putting a limit on it basically tells us "you got 8 reviews done, you might as well stop since you aren't getting paid anything more anyway." and the ability to bank those extra reviews just says "hey look, you can slack off for 2 weeks and let things fall behind."

 

I can either do all the work that's needed every week and bank a bunch of TPE I will never be able to use OR slack off 8 reviews in and have things sit forever. If we remove the limit we get the best of both worlds; everything gets graded in a good amount of time and PT staff are motivated to do more.

But once could say the same about Grading. You knew going into it you could only claim 2 TPE no matter how many you did per week. If your workloads increased, isn't that a hiring issue and not my issue? Why are Graders not motivated to start with? Are some of them only doing a couple per week or does the Head Grader need to go out and hire more. Flyers fan never had this issue because he hired plenty and if they slacked he cut them.

 

@DollarAndADream was actually claiming more than the cap long ago for the extra worked he did, he adjusted that to adding grading TPE additions only to weeks he didn't meet the cap.

 

By the way, don't scream foul at me. The VHL has always been 2 TPE for a job per week, don't shoot your arrows my way because since S1 it has been the same. I just enforce the rule like every other Updater until things have been changed. I'm not the blue team for fucks sake.

 

I do love how graders cry foul so often though, even though they received a damn bonus every year. Get a grip guys.

[Kendrick 4,741]

15 minutes ago, Beketov said:

It's auto 6 but I k ow that people still take our feedback to help gem in the future. I know I hate posting something and not seeing reviews for over 2 weeks so I'm sure others do as well. You can claim it but it's still nice to have. Keep in mind to, there's no real discussion with GFX like MS' have. 

 

Also, I agree that some reviews are way too short for the pay which is why I do my best to give longer ones. When I see 30+ reviews to do they shorten up but usually I try to go through all the major points of a sit in my reviews.

So maybe speak to your Head Grader if that's an issue, don't come at me.

[Beketov 9,023]

11 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

But once could say the same about Grading. You knew going into it you could only claim 2 TPE no matter how many you did per week. If your workloads increased, isn't that a hiring issue and not my issue? Why are Graders not motivated to start with? Are some of them only doing a couple per week or does the Head Grader need to go out and hire more. Flyers fan never had this issue because he hired plenty and if they slacked he cut them.

 

@DollarAndADream was actually claiming more than the cap long ago for the extra worked he did, he adjusted that to adding grading TPE additions only to weeks he didn't meet the cap.

 

By the way, don't scream foul at me. The VHL has always been 2 TPE for a job per week, don't shoot your arrows my way because since S1 it has been the same. I just enforce the rule like every other Updater until things have been changed. I'm not the blue team for fucks sake.

 

I do love how graders cry foul so often though, even though they received a damn bonus every year. Get a grip guys.

Why are you getting so defensive and saying I’m crying foul at you? I only brought you up in the first place because you were the first to point it out (that I knew of) and my response above was simply trying to haver a discussion regarding your points. I was never attacking you and yet now you’re getting defensive as if I’ve done something massively wrong. It’s like any suggestion that graders make are automatically taking shots at you which is ridiculous since you seem to be the one firing shots in here. You are flat out claiming that I’m calling these things “your issue” when I NEVER said that you should have been allowing it or even implied I had a problem with you at all.

 

Whomever said graders aren’t motivated BTW? Based off Victor telling me flat out to just grade for the 2 TPE and then stop apparently my motivation is too high for what the job entails. I’m not asking for a handout here, I’m asking to be allowed to claim TPE on the work I’m doing rather than have it sit there doing me no good. As I see it my options are either not do my work so that the work I’ve already done gets me something or slow down the amount of work I do to fall under the limit. This isn’t a motivation problem whatsoever.

 

I actually didn’t know going into it that the cap was there, neither did a lot of people based off this thread and there was DEFINITELY a time when that cap either didn’t exist or wasn’t enforced.

 

Lastly, that “damn bonus” is gone, not that it was ever much of anything to start, so you can quit bringing it up. I’ve seen you “cry foul” on behalf of the updaters more than the PT staff have done anything.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Beketov

[Kendrick 4,741]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Why are you getting so defensive and saying I’m crying foul at you? I only brought you up in the first place because you were the first to point it out (that I knew of) and my response above was simply trying to haver a discussion regarding your points. I was never attacking you and yet now you’re getting defensive as if I’ve done something massively wrong. It’s like any suggestion that graders make are automatically taking shots at you which is ridiculous since you seem to be the one firing shots in here.

 

Whomever said graders aren’t motivated BTW? Based off Victor telling me flat out to just grade for the 2 TPE and then stop apparently my motivation is too high for what the job entails.

 

I actually didn’t know going into it that the cap was there, neither did a lot of people based off this thread and there was DEFINITELY a time when that cap either didn’t exist or wasn’t enforced.

I've been mentioned twice in this thread strictly for the sole purpose that I do what I'm told when updating. I will fire shots because I find it funny graders are the ones complaining. You basically just told me that going into the job I knew what I was able to do and what I would get paid, I'm telling you its the same on any job. You also just said that for two weeks an article or graphic will go unreviewed, that tells me they aren't motivated (even when they had a stupid bonus at the end of the year).

 

Call me when you guys don't get a bonus for 99% of the seasons in the league, then we'll talk. (Yeah it was 2 TPE but rather shitty of an idea).

[Beketov 9,023]

Just now, Kendrick said:

I've been mentioned twice in this thread strictly for the sole purpose that I do what I'm told when updating. I will fire shots because I find it funny graders are the ones complaining. You basically just told me that going into the job I knew what I was able to do and what I would get paid, I'm telling you its the same on any job. You also just said that for two weeks an article or graphic will go unreviewed, that tells me they aren't motivated (even when they had a stupid bonus at the end of the year).

 

Call me when you guys don't get a bonus for 99% of the seasons in the league, then we'll talk. (Yeah it was 2 TPE but rather shitty of an idea).

Look at your mentions though. I was simply bringing you into the conversation because you seemed to have information on the matter that those of us involved didn’t have since no one up to that point could even pinpoint when this regulation came in. I never said anything derogatory toward you or said you shouldn’t have been doing it; I’m not sure how you seem to be taking it that way.

 

Is it the same on any job though? This is what the GFX grader application says:

 

Quote

This is the thread to be used for hiring graphics guys.

 

Pay is 1 TPE per 4 reviews. You can also review podcasts.

 

Please post if you wish to apply for the position, and why I should hire you.

 

That says NOTHING about a limit on the amount you can get per week. So no, we weren’t told going into it the exact amount we were going to be paid. If the limit is going to continue to be enforced, so be it, but it should be made clear.

 

I will say that yes, things will go unreviewed for awhile and that is because we need to get more GFX guys in here since we can’t seem to keep a constant staff. However that does not mean every single member of the PT staff is unmotivated. I review 95% of the items that are posted and have been doing so for months yet you come in here and tell me that I’m unmotivated and just crying for handouts.

 

And seriously, stop bringing up the fucking FIGA. It’s gone, you killed it, it’s over. I know damn well how you felt about it and I would be AMAZED if you could shown me how that extra 1-2 TPE per season really made my players drastically better than anyone else’s. This topic has nothing to do with that so continuously bringing it up is just being done to try and make me look whiny which is far from what I’m trying to do.

[Kendrick 4,741]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Look at your mentions though. I was simply bringing you into the conversation because you seemed to have information on the matter that those of us involved didn’t have since no one up to that point could even pinpoint when this regulation came in. I never said anything derogatory toward you or said you shouldn’t have been doing it; I’m not sure how you seem to be taking it that way.

 

Is it the same on any job though? This is what the GFX grader application says:

 

 

That says NOTHING about a limit on the amount you can get per week. So no, we weren’t told going into it the exact amount we were going to be paid. If the limit is going to continue to be enforced, so be it, but it should be made clear.

 

I will say that yes, things will go unreviewed for awhile and that is because we need to get more GFX guys in here since we can’t seem to keep a constant staff. However that does not mean every single member of the PT staff is unmotivated. I review 95% of the items that are posted and have been doing so for months yet you come in here and tell me that I’m unmotivated and just crying for handouts.

 

And seriously, stop bringing up the fucking FIGA. It’s gone, you killed it, it’s over. I know damn well how you felt about it and I would be AMAZED if you could shown me how that extra 1-2 TPE per season really made my players drastically better than anyone else’s. This topic has nothing to do with that so continuously bringing it up is just being done to try and make me look whiny which is far from what I’m trying to do.

Principles mate, principles. Also talk to the blue team. Go ahead claim TPE tis you reach the limit, thats a great way to increase discussion around the board with the lack of a few more PT's being submitted.

[Beketov 9,023]

1 minute ago, Kendrick said:

Principles mate, principles. Also talk to the blue team. Go ahead claim TPE tis you reach the limit, thats a great way to increase discussion around the board with the lack of a few more PT's being submitted.

So a suggestion that doesn’t directly relate to the major problem of the board at the current time should be immediately dismissed? Last I checked my GFX never receive more than the review posts anyway so I hardly think it would kill all activity on the site.

 

This forum is for suggestions, that’s what this is. I’m not going to hide every suggestion I have away in PM’s with the blue team; the point is discussion. If for nothing else than to establish why this rule exists and when it was established. I believe I made that clear in my first post.

 

I’m not sure what I did to piss you off so much but I don’t appreciate this “fuck off” attitude that you’re deciding to give me. This was a reasonable suggestion, nothing more. I haven’t threatened to stop grading (sound familiar) or leave the board or anything ridiculous if it doesn’t happen; I simply wanted to bring up something that I think is a current issue.  Sorry if my bringing you into the discussion was taken as an assault.

[Molholt 2,185]

19 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Principles mate, principles. Also talk to the blue team. Go ahead claim TPE tis you reach the limit, thats a great way to increase discussion around the board with the lack of a few more PT's being submitted.

 

Does anyone actually have discussion on graphics anyways?

[Kendrick 4,741]

20 minutes ago, Beketov said:

So a suggestion that doesn’t directly relate to the major problem of the board at the current time should be immediately dismissed? Last I checked my GFX never receive more than the review posts anyway so I hardly think it would kill all activity on the site.

 

This forum is for suggestions, that’s what this is. I’m not going to hide every suggestion I have away in PM’s with the blue team; the point is discussion. If for nothing else than to establish why this rule exists and when it was established. I believe I made that clear in my first post.

 

I’m not sure what I did to piss you off so much but I don’t appreciate this “fuck off” attitude that you’re deciding to give me. This was a reasonable suggestion, nothing more. I haven’t threatened to stop grading (sound familiar) or leave the board or anything ridiculous if it doesn’t happen; I simply wanted to bring up something that I think is a current issue.  Sorry if my bringing you into the discussion was taken as an assault.

It's not a fuck off attitude at all, you are free to discuss it all you want. Never once did I say you weren't, I just have chosen not to now. "Sound Familiar", I thought you wanted to drop the FIGA conversation? You just brought it up again. Like I said, ask the blue team why it exists, I just update with what I'm told.

[Phil 5,119]

There is no reason why banking TPE for reviews should be a problem. They don't go over the cap... they fulfill their job requirements... it fucking rewards active members who are contributing to the site.... Maybe then we can ensure that every single PT has at least 2 reviews on them and that is WAY WAY more likely to stimulate more discussion and contribute to the solution of this dying activity we claim to have. It may entice more people to actually take 10 minutes to write a spot if they see that more people are commenting and actually giving a shit about the work they are putting into their player and thus deepening the league.  It's so disheartening to put so much effort into something and have it basically ignored. Maybe that's a reason we are lacking PTs. Maybe we should have these feedback staff be the official stimulating of discussion and maybe ramp it up to 3 comments per PT.... This is the shit we should be encouraging... not trying to stifle. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

There is no reason why banking TPE for reviews should be a problem. They don't go over the cap... they fulfill their job requirements... it fucking rewards active members who are contributing to the site.... Maybe then we can ensure that every single PT has at least 2 reviews on them and that is WAY WAY more likely to stimulate more discussion and contribute to the solution of this dying activity we claim to have. It may entice more people to actually take 10 minutes to write a spot if they see that more people are commenting and actually giving a shit about the work they are putting into their player and thus deepening the league.  It's so disheartening to put so much effort into something and have it basically ignored. Maybe that's a reason we are lacking PTs. Maybe we should have these feedback staff be the official stimulating of discussion and maybe ramp it up to 3 comments per PT.... This is the shit we should be encouraging... not trying to stifle. 

By the way I'm not stifling anything for the record, just stating i update with what I've been told. Not to mention that if the graders do say they are motivated, why does it take two weeks for a review like Beketov said? That doesn't sound like a motivated bunch to me. In regards to banking i have never told a Grader he can't bank grading TPE. I have just said that he can only claim 2 TPE a week from grading.

[Phil 5,119]

1 minute ago, Kendrick said:

By the way I'm not stifling anything for the record, just stating i update with what I've been told. Not to mention that if the graders do say they are motivated, why does it take two weeks for a review like Beketov said? That doesn't sound like a motivated bunch to me. In regards to banking i have never told a Grader he can't bank grading TPE. I have just said that he can only claim 2 TPE a week from grading.

 

True. Not claiming you are stifling anything. I understand you are just doing what you've been told and enforcing the updating rules; good on you for that, but the fact that this has even appeared in the complaints/suggestion thread is astonishing to me. I still have yet to hear a good reason why there's should be a 2 TPE limit per week on this. However, I would agree with @Victor and @frescoelmo and say that the grading:TPE scale should be reworked, given the fact that it takes way less effort to do than the tediousness of full-on grading... other than that, we need to promote discussions on PTs and it definitely starts with these guys in the feedback group. 

[Victor 10,938]

In a nutshell: thank you Beketov for bringing it to my attention that the graders pay scale is out of date. This shall be addressed shortly.

[Beketov 9,023]

55 minutes ago, Victor said:

In a nutshell: thank you Beketov for bringing it to my attention that the graders pay scale is out of date. This shall be addressed shortly.

Great...so in an attempt to make my life easier I instead kept the same regulations in place regarding the limit but doubled the work requirement to hit that limit? This is what I get for voicing an opinion I suppose.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

Well getting 2 TPE for grading (sorry, reviewing) 8 graphics is completely ridiculous anyway imo

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

How is reviewing that much different from grading?  I still point out the same info and mistakes, I just don't assign a number value to it.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

1 hour ago, evrydayimbyfuglien said:

How is reviewing that much different from grading?  I still point out the same info and mistakes, I just don't assign a number value to it.

 

Well I'm not a fan of the new system (I understand the need for it, but the old system is what pushed me to get better at graphics) and I snuck a little bit of snark in my post

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

10 minutes ago, .sniffuM said:

 

Well I'm not a fan of the new system (I understand the need for it, but the old system is what pushed me to get better at graphics) and I snuck a little bit of snark in my post

It wasn't lost on me lol

 

I can see both sides on this TBH I'll just follow the herd. 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

For writing reviews, I suppose 1 TPE for every 4 kind of makes sense still, since it's still the same amount of work whether it's a review or a grade.

 

Also @Kendrick, @Beketov wasn't saying people aren't properly motivated to do reviews. The problem is that after you do your required 8 for the 2 TPE, there is no incentive to do any more, so sometimes articles get left behind. It is completely true though, that if every member of the review team did the 4 or 8 every single week, articles or graphics getting left behind would never be a problem. But the fact is, in the months where there's no real hockey around, sometimes it gets more inactive here on the VHL.

 

Plus, it's not like there's people lining up to take these jobs. Writing and Graphic reviewing is basically always open for hire as far as I'm concerned. There's such a large turnover rate for these people most of the time, especially the ones who apply and get hired, then review for 2 weeks and go inactive. It's been difficult to find guys who stay on for a long time. I'm lucky to have guys like @evrydayimbyfuglien, @ADwyer87, @Beketov, @jack, and @boubabi who have been so consistent for so long. The writing team was a crapshoot before evryday and ADwyer came aboard. I basically did it all myself most of the time. I kind of lucked out that it turned to auto-claim because now there's not such a fuss when something gets left behind.

 

The thing about that though is, everything should always get a review. It just needs to happen to make sure the requirements are being met. I know @Victor earlier in this thread stated that technically they don't need them, but they do. Not only that, but when your things don't get any comments or likes, you basically are relying on that review for some kind of input. It sucks when the only activity on your article or graphic is when the updater comes in and writes "Claimed" on it.

 

I've stated it before here, if things were how I wanted it, I would never have to do any actual reviews myself. If I could find a great, consistent team of reviewers that made it so nothing ever went by, I would. But it just hasn't happened.

 

 

 

Aside from that, yeah, regarding @Kendrick again, I know you feel like people are pointing fingers at you. It's only because for whatever reason, many people had no idea that this 2 TPE/week thing was even in place. You were the one to enforce it, and people don't seem to know it exists. I tell people in the grading section when it comes up, but for the most part people don't usually do more than 2 TPE worth/week unless you're a beast like @Beketov or @boubabi when he was super active with grades. It's not in the OP of that hiring thread that there's a claim cap of 2 TPE/week, and I suppose that's my fault. When I created those job threads, I basically copied and pasted from the old ones. But, it's also the updaters' jobs to make sure people aren't claiming more than 2 per week from it. I figured every updater was enforcing that rule since Kendrick was for me, so I didn't bother asking around. Also I honestly didn't care enough if I was getting locked down by Kenny and others weren't. I wasn't going to check the other graders update threads, because if they got away with more than 2 TPE per week I could care less. 

Actually, if I could avoid doing a PT and just grade 8 TPE worth of articles every week I probably would. Especially considering Podcasts are worth 2 points instead of 1....I'm most of the time I'm the only one to review the Podcasts. Phil has definitely helped time and time again with that as well.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

@Kendrick @DollarAndADream @Victor do any of you have a timeline on when this 2 TPE/week thing went into place? Because the more I think about it, at some point either right before I became Head Grader or while I was Head Grader, the 2 TPE max per week was abolished in order to allow active graders to continue to grade, since everyone was dependent on grading getting done and it wasn't. The "one grade needed if 6/6" rule wasn't implemented yet, so this was done to speed things up. When/if it ever officially came back into the fold, I'm not sure.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

2 minutes ago, flyersfan1493 said:

@Kendrick @DollarAndADream @Victor do any of you have a timeline on when this 2 TPE/week thing went into place? Because the more I think about it, at some point either right before I became Head Grader or while I was Head Grader, the 2 TPE max per week was abolished in order to allow active graders to continue to grade, since everyone was dependent on grading getting done and it wasn't. The "one grade needed if 6/6" rule wasn't implemented yet, so this was done to speed things up. When/if it ever officially came back into the fold, I'm not sure.

The only thing I can tell you is when @Kendrick informed me about it....and looking back on my update thread...September 2015.