S54: Update Scale Changes

[Devise 4,475]

Plus giveaways have happened since well before welfare with no issue. The reality here is that welfare mixed with the bit of TPE inflation existed long enough for us to start seeing what kind of impact all that had. Ultimately even if we could band aid in other areas this slight adjustment on update scale targets the issue at the source and doesn't punish any one section or group more than the other imo.

[Kendrick 4,741]

43 minutes ago, Streetlite said:

I actually doubt that tbh.

 

Though I guess if the metric is "who has more goals," then sure, the guy with 99 in Scoring might do better.

You doubt that?

 

Because a guy with 99 scoring will shoot more and will end up grabbing secondary assists on shots that went in off other bodies as well. 99 puck handling will just make sure your player is good with the puck at his stick, which doesn't result in many boxscore statistics.

[scoop 3,432]

4 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

You doubt that?

 

Because a guy with 99 scoring will shoot more and will end up grabbing secondary assists on shots that went in off other bodies as well. 99 puck handling will just make sure your player is good with the puck at his stick, which doesn't result in many boxscore statistics.

That's what I was getting at in my subsequent posts. Yeah, 99 SC may get you more points, but I think 99 PH will get you more wins. It's purely speculative, but I think if a team of players with all 40s except 99 PH took on a team of players with all 40s except 99 SC, the PH team wins.

 

I could be very wrong, but now I'm curious to see what would happen. @JardyB10

 

(Of course, that would mean that the PH players end up with more points than the SC players. But that's on a team where all of the players have those attributes and they're playing against each other; in general, I think the player with SC if placed on a team of normal builds would score more points, but a PH player would be more beneficial to the team).

Edited February 23, 2017 by Streetlite

[Devise 4,475]

5 minutes ago, Streetlite said:

That's what I was getting at in my subsequent posts. Yeah, 99 SC may get you more points, but I think 99 PH will get you more wins. It's purely speculative, but I think if a team of players with all 40s except 99 PH took on a team of players with all 40s except 99 SC, the PH team wins.

 

I could be very wrong, but now I'm curious to see what would happen. @JardyB10

 

(Of course, that would mean that the PH players end up with more points than the SC players. But that's on a team where all of the players have those attributes and they're playing against each other; in general, I think the player with SC if placed on a team of normal builds would score more points, but a PH player would be more beneficial to the team).

 

Interesting theory. I'd wonder though if at least in terms of being more beneficial tons team the team make up would really matter most. For example the pH player would probably be more beneficial to a team already loaded on offense however throw the 99 SC with prominent passers? Then it becomes tough to judge. It's easy to forget the reason points matter so much even awards wise is generally because teams have historically won more with offense in VHL history.

[jRuutu 2,464]

I like it and to be honest, I was expecting ´harder´ scale when I saw the title. 

 

In my opinion if the league is going to let welfare/pension players collect 4 points without doing PT´s, they should have their own update scale, at least double the points to level up attribute compared to users who do PT`s.  There is roughly 20 users who claim welfare/pension weekly, sometimes few more and sometimes few less.  

 

Especially the ones who do not have a job around the league and claim welfare/pension, they should be forced to use much harder update scale. The purely welfare/pension players should be lucky to hit 85 with two attributes, yet alone 90 on even one attribute. Their peak should be at max 300 TPE and that is after playing at least 5 seasons in VHL.  

 

Welfare/pension players should be the Marcus Foligno´s, Troy Brouwers when players who do PT´s should be the Tarasenkos, Kanes etc.  Difference should be massive. At the moment the difference is not big enough.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by jRuutu

[der meister 3,189]

I hate this. 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

@JardyB10 be useful and test sim us a team with nothing but 99 scoring against a team of 99 puck handling and see who wins lets say out of 10 or 20 games more than the other

[Jericho 917]

5 hours ago, jRuutu said:

I like it and to be honest, I was expecting ´harder´ scale when I saw the title. 

 

In my opinion if the league is going to let welfare/pension players collect 4 points without doing PT´s, they should have their own update scale, at least double the points to level up attribute compared to users who do PT`s.  There is roughly 20 users who claim welfare/pension weekly, sometimes few more and sometimes few less.  

 

Especially the ones who do not have a job around the league and claim welfare/pension, they should be forced to use much harder update scale. The purely welfare/pension players should be lucky to hit 85 with two attributes, yet alone 90 on even one attribute. Their peak should be at max 300 TPE and that is after playing at least 5 seasons in VHL.  

 

Welfare/pension players should be the Marcus Foligno´s, Troy Brouwers when players who do PT´s should be the Tarasenkos, Kanes etc.  Difference should be massive. At the moment the difference is not big enough.

 

 

I mean, then the welfare guys would just say fuck it and bail.

 

We want to find a happy medium. Those guys are supposed to be good players, where the TPE whores makes great players. We don't want to shit on them, to get to 4 TPE/week with welfare you have to make 2 good players before that. They've done their hard work and should be rewarded for it.

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I mean, then the welfare guys would just say fuck it and bail.

 

We want to find a happy medium. Those guys are supposed to be good players, where the TPE whores makes great players. We don't want to shit on them, to get to 4 TPE/week with welfare you have to make 2 good players before that. They've done their hard work and should be rewarded for it.

They should absolutely not be rewarded as heavily as they are now,  what happens if we all start doing that eventually? Why should I for example keep on doing PT´s with my next player if I can have a solid career with welfare/pension alone? 

 

If you go to welfare/pension route, you should accept the fact that you are going to have hard to time to get anywhere near the players who do PT`s weekly. The cap between those players is not big enough, not sure if the update scale make a change on that either, 95 or 90 is the new 99. If ´everybody´ have 90 in all the major skills, does anything change? 

[Devise 4,475]

@jRuutu The non welfares will be able to get stats to 99 more in this system than the welfare users. 

 

Remember too a lot of welfare users are active. They do Fan590 they have league jobs that are valuable, they donate, they GM. The system works best when everyone can get a piece of what they want in the league. Otherwise attacking one method of activity like you mentioned has a lot of unforseen consequences. 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

@jRuutu The non welfares will be able to get stats to 99 more in this system than the welfare users. 

 

Remember too a lot of welfare users are active. They do Fan590 they have league jobs that are valuable, they donate, they GM. The system works best when everyone can get a piece of what they want in the league. Otherwise attacking one method of activity like you mentioned has a lot of unforseen consequences. 

thats only two paragraphs. therefore it must not be that important therefore i didnt even read what you said. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Devise said:

@jRuutu The non welfares will be able to get stats to 99 more in this system than the welfare users. 

 

Remember too a lot of welfare users are active. They do Fan590 they have league jobs that are valuable, they donate, they GM. The system works best when everyone can get a piece of what they want in the league. Otherwise attacking one method of activity like you mentioned has a lot of unforseen consequences. 

But not everybody who claim welfare have a job. At least the few threads I checked quickly had quite few users who do not have a job. Something should be done to those users.  

[Devise 4,475]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

But not everybody who claim welfare have a job. At least the few threads I checked quickly had quite few users who do not have a job. Something should be done to those users.  

 

Those users are generally not comparable with actives save for a few exceptions. People need to look specific to how this update scale works now as well.

 

Say I'm a permanent welfare player. Your issue with me isn't that I can get attributes to 85 it's that I can get it to 90+. Now it's much harder on me to get any attributes to 90+ then it is for you. Why? Because a harsher scale there means it costs more TPE. And the sheer fact that it takes both of us 18 TPE more to get it to 99 gives you the advantage because as a career 400 TPE player even an extra 18 TPE means more to me than it does to a career 800+ TPE players aka your actives. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

 

Those users are generally not comparable with actives save for a few exceptions. People need to look specific to how this update scale works now as well.

 

Say I'm a permanent welfare player. Your issue with me isn't that I can get attributes to 85 it's that I can get it to 90+. Now it's much harder on me to get any attributes to 90+ then it is for you. Why? Because a harsher scale there means it costs more TPE. And the sheer fact that it takes both of us 18 TPE more to get it to 99 gives you the advantage because as a career 400 TPE player even an extra 18 TPE means more to me than it does to a career 800+ TPE players aka your actives. 

I´m terrible in math, but you can get at least 4 attributes from 40 to 90 with 400 TPE on the new scale if my math skills can be trusted, that is way too much for Welfare player. 

 

My real issue with welfare/pension players is that they are just too good. The league should demand more from their users, especially from the ones who collect welfare/pension and do not have a job around the league. They should not be given right to earn 4 from welfare/pension, simple as that. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

33 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I´m terrible in math, but you can get at least 4 attributes from 40 to 90 with 400 TPE on the new scale if my math skills can be trusted, that is way too much for Welfare player. 

 

My real issue with welfare/pension players is that they are just too good. The league should demand more from their users, especially from the ones who collect welfare/pension and do not have a job around the league. They should not be given right to earn 4 from welfare/pension, simple as that. 

Well if I'm not mistaken only a few are able to grab 4 TPE because of past players. If you don't have past players you are getting 2 TPE or 3 TPE.

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Well if I'm not mistaken only a few are able to grab 4 TPE because of past players. If you don't have past players you are getting 2 TPE or 3 TPE.

Last week there was at least 13 users out of 20 who claimed 4, maybe few more since couple ´claimed´ just by using their name and did not write down how much they claimed.

 

 Before that there was 11 out of 19 who claimed 4, once again could be be few more with few using their name to claim it. 

 

Week before that there was at least 12 who claimed 4 out of 19.....

 

So it´s not just few, not sure what they have bought or done to get to 4, but there is a lot of users every week who claim 4. Also, not everybody of them have a job.

 

 

[Kendrick 4,741]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Last week there was at least 13 users out of 20 who claimed 4, maybe few more since couple ´claimed´ just by using their name and did not write down how much they claimed.

 

 Before that there was 11 out of 19 who claimed 4, once again could be be few more with few using their name to claim it. 

 

Week before that there was at least 12 who claimed 4 out of 19.....

 

So it´s not just few, not sure what they have bought or done to get to 4, but there is a lot of users every week who claim 4. Also, not everybody of them have a job.

 

 

To get 4 TPE you have to have had 2 previous 400 TPE players in the VHL. Unless you bought a store purchase to add on to your 3 TPE from 1 previous player. You can't just claim 4 TPE without a background.

[jRuutu 2,464]

15 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

To get 4 TPE you have to have had 2 previous 400 TPE players in the VHL. Unless you bought a store purchase to add on to your 3 TPE from 1 previous player. You can't just claim 4 TPE without a background.

They should all be able to claim 2 points at best. Want to stay in VHL, but only do welfare/pension? Great, your player will be rather bad. Want to have a successful career in VHL by doing PT´s? Great, you will more than likely have a great career.

 

If no changes to that coming up,  they should lift that 400 to 800 at least and then give users the right to start claim 3 or 4 from welfare/pension with their 3rd player.

 

I mean, I´m almost at 400 now with my second player? I have not donated once, all I have done is the PT´s weekly and collect every possible giveaway and get lucky with weekly predictions here and there. Even if I started at 0 tpe without any carryover TPE, I would be over 300 TPE. 

 

I have provided very little to the community so far during my time here, and now you all are saying I should be rewarded with the opportunity to claim 4 TPE for free when I start my new player and stay here? That is a terrible system. Not saying users who claim 4 have not done anything in the past, but the fact that I can use the same system as some other members and claim 4 is just embarrassing.

Edited February 24, 2017 by jRuutu

[Devise 4,475]

Showing up to the site, providing GMs with players in your case previous Top Leaders and Cup wins has value. People don't mean nothing to this community just because they don't do PTs. 

 

Also @jRuutu I'd say give this update scale a chance. It will make that TPE difference actives earn over non PT users matter more. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Devise

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Devise said:

Showing up to the site, providing GMs with players in your case previous Top Leaders and Cup wins has value. People don't mean nothing to this community just because they don't do PTs. 

I just cant understand why you need to ´reward´ people in the first place if they have build few good players in the past? Is the carryover TPE not enough? Why need to give them ability to claim 4 from welfare/pension as well?

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

Also @jRuutu I'd say give this update scale a chance. It will make that TPE difference actives earn over non PT users matter more. 

I will, I like the chance to the scale. Looking forward to seeing how big the difference will be!

[Baozi 1,658]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I just cant understand why you need to ´reward´ people in the first place if they have build few good players in the past? Is the carryover TPE not enough? Why need to give them ability to claim 4 from welfare/pension as well?

 

Your math is off. 

 

Check my math.

 

 

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, jRuutu said:

I just cant understand why you need to ´reward´ people in the first place if they have build few good players in the past? Is the carryover TPE not enough? Why need to give them ability to claim 4 from welfare/pension as well?

 

Because they used to have alot more free time to check the site, enjoy being part of this community and want to stick around to help new members and grow the league. So because they don't have the time to do a PT we should tell them to fuck off? That is the wrong message.

 

Look at this update scale change more closely. This will help actives like yourself separate yourselves from the semi and welfare players. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, tfong said:

 

Your math is off. 

 

Check my math.

 

 

I kinda like my math more 

[Baozi 1,658]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I kinda like my math more 

 

Lol cuz its wrong?

400 tpe over 8 years isn't much