S56 VHL Awards

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, boubabi said:

There will probably have an extension for people to vote so theres that

For the future votings?

[boubabi 4,725]

No for top d voting

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Kendrick said:

Might be nice, doesn't bode well for future debates though.

It´s fine,  most fun I have in VHL is in these discussions

[jRuutu 2,464]

Whats up with the double posts?

Edited October 6, 2017 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, boubabi said:

No for top d voting

Focus on future votings, if by the odd change I actually end up winning after extended voting - I don´t want to win it like that.

[Devise 4,475]

First of all let me actually explain why the Top GM award is a regular season award and not a playoff award.

 

The playoffs are a crapshoot. They are. You are not a "better" GM because your team won in the playoffs. I've been on contenders that dominate and been ousted in a tight 7 game series because a worse team who had one good goalie, had their goalie steal the show. That has zero impact on a GM. The playoffs are at most a 7 game series against the rest of the leagues best teams. With the exception of the first round, which usually has one series in it that is obvious, every single series is almost a 50% crap shoot on who will win. So we should be factoring in that crap shoot on who is the best executive? Why? Under what realistic reason?

 

You sit there and argue well it's the first cup in X, or how about rewarding the playoffs? Have you heard about this trophy we award called the Continental Cup? That is the award for playoffs. That is every GM's goal. It's the award of awards, it trumps every award in the league. Frank won it. He received his trophy for playoff success. 

 

It just makes far more sense for Top GM to be a regular season award. Because otherwise what sign of encouragement would a team like Riga get? It's not just about Victory Cup, it's about acknowledging the GM's that are out there doing their jobs to put their teams into a position so they can stand a chance at the playoffs with the other competitive teams. Like it or not, Hedgehog went from a team not even in the playoffs to the first place team. So when you see those drastic changes, you have to ask yourself "what did that GM do to make this happen." It' isn't just about trades, or moves, your right signing extensions to teams could make a difference. If Hedgehog had done literally nothing, no new extensions no new contract signings literally zero, and his team did what it did, I don't know if he gets considered for Top GM. Because in that case what did he do that made the drastic change we saw? But that of course isn't the case. He compeltely retooled and rebuilt his team and was the clear winner of the NYA fire sale, and look low and behold it made a drastic improvement on his teams status. They are now on the same tier as Quebec in terms of teams that are going to be competing for seasons to come. 

 

It was a no brainer award, the reason you don't see Frank or anyone complaining is because when the discussion was brought up almost everyone universally debated that due to the drastic improvement in the regular season and the GM decisions made by their GM, it was a obvious choice. 

 

As for the awards that had 4 votes. I really don't like tagging on our site. On my end it messes once every 2 names, if I'm lucky. Then I have to refresh the page. I should of tagged but I added the Labatte vote to the same voting thread since I missed it in the first voting. But, I added it almost immediately, like the same day if I recall. The reailty is we have several people who voted who then got busy and didn't come back on. Yes, I could of waited to announce the award winners, but waited how long? How can I even be certain who voted and if they did they woudl be able to come on and vote again? I know one BoG member who initially voted, and then when I PM'd about his interest in BoG he told me to make sure he's removed due to inactivity. 

 

That is the reality we are faced with. It's a rather chaotic time right now, that isn't a shocker, but I don't really appreciate being told that it's just a vote for your friends show or something to that effect. I don't even see how it would be in the case of Top GM. The only members of the BoG that could vote that play for Riga last season, was Kendrick right? Otherwise, we have several rival GM's voting. Including Frank himself. Otherwise the players are from other teams. For the record, there is no award committee. It's just BoG voting right now, and while we have had discussion to change that, changes won't likely come until after next season at the earliest. Especially with a BoG reshuffle going on, and me realizing how I want to try to do award voting next time to ensure we get as much involvement as possible here on out. 

 

Playoff MVP was separate because it should always be. People shouldn't ever be able to look at playoff results to determine regular season awards. That taints what they look at. It's why it should be always run after the regular season award voting happens. I get it, playoffs are a great time and they are a time we look forward to. But on top of having the Continental Cup they also have Playoff MVP. They are adequately rewarded. If we just ignored the regular season all together at what point does it basically not matter? The purpose of regular season awards being voted on before playoffs is to show the members that you need to pay attention to regular season. Update weekly, get your lines in for GM's. Because how you perform in there has direct impact on the awards you win, which has direct impact on making the Hall of Fame. 

[boubabi 4,725]

Its not up to you to decide really. We cant let an award be decided by 4 votes. Not for a close call.

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, boubabi said:

Its not up to you to decide really. We cant let an award be decided by 4 votes. Not for a close call.

 

This. The Top D award is likely to be re decided pending on a few more votes. Playoff MVP was decided after as it should of been, but obviously there were lose who voted for the other regular season awards that missed the Labatte. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Its not up to you to decide really. We cant let an award be decided by 4 votes. Not for a close call.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

This. The Top D award is likely to be re decided pending on a few more votes. Playoff MVP was decided after as it should of been, but obviously there were lose who voted for the other regular season awards that missed the Labatte. 

 

Oh nice,  how about making that call before you actually announce the award with the ´first votes´?  Leave it blank and announce the other awards?

 

 

[boubabi 4,725]

Thanks for the tip

[scoop 3,426]

28 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

Does it even matters?

imo yes

[jRuutu 2,464]

13 minutes ago, Devise said:

First of all let me actually explain why the Top GM award is a regular season award and not a playoff award.

 

The playoffs are a crapshoot. They are. You are not a "better" GM because your team won in the playoffs. I've been on contenders that dominate and been ousted in a tight 7 game series because a worse team who had one good goalie, had their goalie steal the show. That has zero impact on a GM. The playoffs are at most a 7 game series against the rest of the leagues best teams. With the exception of the first round, which usually has one series in it that is obvious, every single series is almost a 50% crap shoot on who will win. So we should be factoring in that crap shoot on who is the best executive? Why? Under what realistic reason?

 

You sit there and argue well it's the first cup in X, or how about rewarding the playoffs? Have you heard about this trophy we award called the Continental Cup? That is the award for playoffs. That is every GM's goal. It's the award of awards, it trumps every award in the league. Frank won it. He received his trophy for playoff success. 

 

It just makes far more sense for Top GM to be a regular season award. Because otherwise what sign of encouragement would a team like Riga get? It's not just about Victory Cup, it's about acknowledging the GM's that are out there doing their jobs to put their teams into a position so they can stand a chance at the playoffs with the other competitive teams. Like it or not, Hedgehog went from a team not even in the playoffs to the first place team. So when you see those drastic changes, you have to ask yourself "what did that GM do to make this happen." It' isn't just about trades, or moves, your right signing extensions to teams could make a difference. If Hedgehog had done literally nothing, no new extensions no new contract signings literally zero, and his team did what it did, I don't know if he gets considered for Top GM. Because in that case what did he do that made the drastic change we saw? But that of course isn't the case. He compeltely retooled and rebuilt his team and was the clear winner of the NYA fire sale, and look low and behold it made a drastic improvement on his teams status. They are now on the same tier as Quebec in terms of teams that are going to be competing for seasons to come. 

 

It was a no brainer award, the reason you don't see Frank or anyone complaining is because when the discussion was brought up almost everyone universally debated that due to the drastic improvement in the regular season and the GM decisions made by their GM, it was a obvious choice. 

 

As for the awards that had 4 votes. I really don't like tagging on our site. On my end it messes once every 2 names, if I'm lucky. Then I have to refresh the page. I should of tagged but I added the Labatte vote to the same voting thread since I missed it in the first voting. But, I added it almost immediately, like the same day if I recall. The reailty is we have several people who voted who then got busy and didn't come back on. Yes, I could of waited to announce the award winners, but waited how long? How can I even be certain who voted and if they did they woudl be able to come on and vote again? I know one BoG member who initially voted, and then when I PM'd about his interest in BoG he told me to make sure he's removed due to inactivity. 

 

That is the reality we are faced with. It's a rather chaotic time right now, that isn't a shocker, but I don't really appreciate being told that it's just a vote for your friends show or something to that effect. I don't even see how it would be in the case of Top GM. The only members of the BoG that could vote that play for Riga last season, was Kendrick right? Otherwise, we have several rival GM's voting. Including Frank himself. Otherwise the players are from other teams. For the record, there is no award committee. It's just BoG voting right now, and while we have had discussion to change that, changes won't likely come until after next season at the earliest. Especially with a BoG reshuffle going on, and me realizing how I want to try to do award voting next time to ensure we get as much involvement as possible here on out. 

 

Playoff MVP was separate because it should always be. People shouldn't ever be able to look at playoff results to determine regular season awards. That taints what they look at. It's why it should be always run after the regular season award voting happens. I get it, playoffs are a great time and they are a time we look forward to. But on top of having the Continental Cup they also have Playoff MVP. They are adequately rewarded. If we just ignored the regular season all together at what point does it basically not matter? The purpose of regular season awards being voted on before playoffs is to show the members that you need to pay attention to regular season. Update weekly, get your lines in for GM's. Because how you perform in there has direct impact on the awards you win, which has direct impact on making the Hall of Fame. 

I understand that, anything and everything is possible in playoffs, but if you are a GM who brought the first cup to a team in 20 seasons - that should count for something on the voting decision. Just because another GM did strong moves to improve the team from last year for example should not automatically mean a top-GM award. They are going to the right direction and playing well - is that not enough of a encouragement sign?

 

If move makers get the love, what sign of encouragement teams or GMs who build from draft get? How many and what kind of trades are bigger than having for example three of your own draftees leading the team to cup victory? Is it purely just what shows on the standings in the point totals, which ever got more points - wins?

 

Sucks that the voting did not go as planned overall, cant say much about the tagging, other than that I hate doing it in every league, never know if it actually works or not. Hopefully the BOG changes go well and in the future things go smoothly.

 

 

 

[sterling 1,997]

I don't recall off the top of my head, but wasn't Digital easily the top contender for the award? And he won.

[Baozi 1,658]

1 hour ago, ADV said:

Phil with more points, hits, goals, better plus minus, etc..like come on man lol

 

Shankly doesn't take faceoffs, I do and have one of the top win rates, that's the extra dimension I was looking at.

 

Not to say of course he doesn't deserve it, I was just surprised that I didn't get anywhere close to contending for the award it seems.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by tfong

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, sterling said:

I don't recall off the top of my head, but wasn't Digital easily the top contender for the award? And he won.

With few words: not really

[sterling 1,997]

Just now, jRuutu said:

With few words: not really

I saw that and decided to vote for Jokinen just now

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, tfong said:

 

Shankly doesn't take faceoffs, I do and have one of the top win rates, that's the extra dimension I was looking at.

 

Not to say of course he doesn't deserve it, I was just surprised that I didn't get anywhere close to contending for the award it seems.

 

Faceoff wins on your own end especially are huge and absolutely should be taken into consideration when talking about two-way players and who wins the award. Faceoffs could very well be even more important than hits.

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, sterling said:

I saw that and decided to vote for Jokinen just now

Thanks

[Devise 4,475]

Indeed if you can't tell the Top D vote will be extended till tomorrow. Playoff MVP will stand as that vote was meant to happen after.

[jRuutu 2,464]

13 minutes ago, tfong said:

 

Shankly doesn't take faceoffs, I do and have one of the top win rates, that's the extra dimension I was looking at.

 

Not to say of course he doesn't deserve it, I was just surprised that I didn't get anywhere close to contending for the award it seems.

 

And to add little NHL to the mix, last 13 Frank J selke  trophy winners have been centers. (I´m assuming Frank J selke trophy is similar to VHLs Scott Boulet)

 

 

[Advantage 2,891]

21 minutes ago, tfong said:

 

Shankly doesn't take faceoffs, I do and have one of the top win rates, that's the extra dimension I was looking at.

 

Not to say of course he doesn't deserve it, I was just surprised that I didn't get anywhere close to contending for the award it seems.

 

I wouldnt say it wasnt close.  I believe you were mentioned.  I think the majority of voters leaned the other way is all whether right or wrong.

[Advantage 2,891]

8 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

And to add little NHL to the mix, last 13 Frank J selke  trophy winners have been centers. (I´m assuming Frank J selke trophy is similar to VHLs Scott Boulet)

 

 

Kinda its tougher cause the defensive metrics arent as good here.

[boubabi 4,725]

9 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

And to add little NHL to the mix, last 13 Frank J selke  trophy winners have been centers. (I´m assuming Frank J selke trophy is similar to VHLs Scott Boulet)

 

 

No. What adv said

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, ADV said:

Kinda its tougher cause the defensive metrics arent as good here.

Faceoffs play part in that, or has to play. More than likely ´easier´ to rack more hits than to win a lot of faceoffs.  Both are valuable to your team, but I´d say faceoff winner takes the win when comparing faceoffs and hits.

[boubabi 4,725]

Centers also take faceoffs vs cpu, which is pretty easy