VHLM Cap Rule

[sterling 1,997]

why?

We dont have enough members to support ten more teams and thats what it would require to expand with our current sim engine. Moreover, I would argue we dont have enough talent for twenty teams as it stands, but that is just my opinion.

[sterling 1,997]

If this league ever expanded again i'd be quite impressed.

Hello friend, are you going to zz top tomorrow

[Smarch 3,153]

Hello friend, are you going to zz top tomorrow

sadly no, seen Chicago with my Dad instead. 

[sterling 1,997]

sadly no, seen Chicago with my Dad instead.

Gays. I am going to park in the rubble across the street tomorrow

[sterling 1,997]

Oh I heard Backstreet Boys are coming to MJ too. Maybe you and your dad can go to that too you fairy

[d3vilsfire 132]

We dont have enough members to support ten more teams and thats what it would require to expand with our current sim engine. Moreover, I would argue we dont have enough talent for twenty teams as it stands, but that is just my opinion.

 

By adding 4 or 6 more teams to 14 or 16 we can move evenly distribute the number of draftees per team, and therefore the teams that might be competing every season. And that is the point. We wont have enough members for each team to have two full lines. That way we have players playing first line minutes elsewhere and that makes them happy (Percy Miller). No one wants to be playing 3rd line minutes on a team, cup or no cup.. I do agree 20 teams is way too much, but is 14? the only thing i do not know how would work is the sim engine..

Edited March 14, 2014 by d3vilsfire

[sterling 1,997]

By adding 4 or 6 more teams to 14 or 16 we can move evenly distribute the number of draftees per team, and therefore the teams that might be competing every season. And that is the point. We wont have enough members for each team to have two full lines. That way we have players playing first line minutes elsewhere and that makes them happy (Percy Miller). No one wants to be playing 3rd line minutes on a team, cup or no cup.. I do agree 20 teams is way too much, but is 14? the only thing i do not know how would work is the sim engine..

or limit teams to 2 lines each may help with less effort

[d3vilsfire 132]

or limit teams to 2 lines each may help with less effort

 

What if we have a rather large draft class one year? and so all the in-actives go into fa? what if they come back? what determines in-activity and activity?

[sterling 1,997]

the fewer inactives the better. Doubt we would ever see 120 active players in the VHL, but perhaps I am too old and pecimistic

[d3vilsfire 132]

the fewer inactives the better. Doubt we would ever see 120 active players in the VHL, but perhaps I am too old and pecimistic

 

by expanding the VHLM to 14 teams, you are not going to increase the prospect pool, but instead hopefully spread the prospect pool hopefully evenly among the teams. This will also encourage active GMs to try and monitor waiver wire and the inactives. Though in-active, the players can still prove to be an asset to a team. This expansion will also increase the price of players and draft picks cutting down on the number of picks that teams should be able to acquire for a cup run. This will also hopefully keep players active as most people like to see their player get first line minutes despite maybe not making a cup run.

[Molholt 2,185]

I'm perfectly fine playing 2/3 line minutes for a contender.

[d3vilsfire 132]

I'm perfectly fine playing 2/3 line minutes for a contender.

 

I would be to because im all about the team, but some people are not, and that is fine. Are you a re-create?

[AwfulHomesick 148]

Expanding the VHLM to 14 teams means the VHL will have to go to 14 teams as well. I don't think we have the numbers to support 14 teams.

[d3vilsfire 132]

Expanding the VHLM to 14 teams means the VHL will have to go to 14 teams as well. I don't think we have the numbers to support 14 teams.

 

Why does one have to mean the other? Does the VHL have the same draft pick issues and lack of minute issues the VHLM is facing? Do teams in the VHL trade away everything so that they can win the following season?

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Why does one have to mean the other? Does the VHL have the same draft pick issues and lack of minute issues the VHLM is facing? Do teams in the VHL trade away everything so that they can win the following season?

The two are linked in the sim. One can't expand without the other

[Higgins 3,618]

If anything the VHLM would drop to 8 teams again, but won't happen.

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

The VHLM already is closer too having too many teams than too few. And the number of teams isn't the problem anyway, the problem is that each year one or two teams accumulate almost all the picks in the draft to make a run, preceded and followed by multiple years of tanking. This problem won't change with 15 or 20 teams, if anything an expansion would give even more of an incentive to use that tactic because you won't be able to ice a competitive team just by using your own picks if you already have trouble finding actives in the 2nd round of the draft, which would now consist of picks 15-30.

 

There already are multiple teams each season that are a non-factor in the standings because they have barely any players on the roster and/or no draft picks. If we expanded, the number of these teams would grow even larger, from maybe 2-3 to 5+ and this wouldn't be good for the league. 2-3 teams being absolutely shitty is already too much and if the sims weren't connected, I would actually be an advocate of cutting the league down to 8 teams. Even with the strong drafts we had recently the talent level isn't really there to support 10 teams, not to say 15 or 20.

Edited March 14, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus

[CoachReilly 688]

VHLM isn't going beyond the VHL in # of teams. It would require having multiple simmers, something we can't necessarily depend on.  Not to mention, there's no reason for it?

[JardyB10 4,865]

why?

 

Sterling is being polite in saying "it's not feasible."  That is extremely true.  Less politely, it's a REALLY bad idea.  Like, potentially league-killing.  I don't mean to be rude. You're newer, so there's no reason that you could know that, so I'll just explain.

 

1.  As has been said, the VHL and VHLM are linked in the sim engine.  There's no way to expand one without the other.  The reason for this is because the sim engine is designed for the minor league teams to be FARM teams like the NHL-AHL, rather than the more Junior league type system we implemented ~S20.  The only reason our system works is because the simmers have been willing to do a lot of extra transactions (especially in the off-season) in order to make the VHLM less restricting to manage for the GMs. 

 

Separating the two would require two different league files, and essentially two different leagues.  This wouldn't necessarily be reliable, or convenient, or easy, or good.  So that's out.

 

2.  If we DID expand (again), that is also doing it backwards.  You're argument is that having more teams would spread the talent out more.  MY argument is that there already IS more than enough teams to spread the talent out to, but the cyclical nature of the league and the freedom GMs get to create super teams is concentrating all the talent onto 2 or 3 teams.  Adding more teams would just be adding more shitty teams.  And the VHL would suffer for it too, because suddenly they would also have more shitty teams.  Unless we coincided that expansion with a cap decrease, in which case most teams wouldn't be able to afford to ice a full two lines, so then we'd have to look at overhauling cap brackets as well.  That is a lot of things.  And for what?  Speculation that it MIGHT resolve VHLM issues.

 

3.  We don't have a big enough active member base to expand (again) yet.  The VHL is decently even as far as talent (future and present) and activity goes, but there's still a ghost team or two (Helsinki and Calgary).  The day there's not a single ghost team in the league is the day we TALK about expanding.  And that's just the VHL.  The VHLM, by nature, can never match up to the VHL as far as the amount of active members playing in it.  Expanding it to 10 wasn't super feasible, but Jason as VHLM Commish did a good job with managing it, and it's not shitty, which is more than I could have hoped at that time.

 

So yeah, no expansion, lol.

[eaglesfan036 4,602]

I fail to see how limiting a team's players to 12 playesrs / 2 lines changes anything. For example, on Yukon I have enough people to yield 3 whole lines if I wanted to. However, I only play 2 lines anyway and while I do have some scrub inactives I could be in on 3rd line, it doesn't benefit the team at all to play them. If this rule we in place I would just cut this scrub 3rd liners anyway. 

[Baozi 1,658]

Just to clarify when Ying Qin was in the VHLM for the second year I forfeited points to stay and I didn't claim them at a later date. The ruling at the time was "earned tpe", so even if you weren't updated it still counts. But as long as you don't "earn" them (meaning you forfeit and can never recover them), then it satisfies the condition.

 

The distinction is that I didn't hide any of my points or claimed them at later dates, I simply didn't do a training camp and a week of PTs, and it put me under the required amount and I bought free weeks at the store. We included my achievement updates though. 

 

While my situation was easily known and remembered, what few of you realize is that I MADE THE VHLM TPE CAP RULE. I enforced it throughout my time as the commish and there were several cases where I went and told a player, they can only stay if they forfeit the points and do not attempt to recover them at a later date. There were actually precedents set before I used it for myself. The only reason why it turned into a big fuss was that I believe Kendrick became the VHLM updater at the time (or whomever was that asked the question and he championed the campaign against me staying), and that updater was not aware that I had already allowed this situation to occur in previous times.

 

Kendrick: Its unfortunate you are still mad at me for the debate surrounding that circumstance, but it might be misplaced, as mentioned just above, I didn't make the exception for just myself. It was used 2-3 times previously already.

 

Though at the end of the day, I didn't actually "profit heavily" from it, it simply wasn't even my intention to anyways. I just didn't want to sit through a season having 10 mins a game and maybe 20-30 points at most. I think my actual "gain" in tpe was like +10/+12. It wasn't overly excessive nor the reasoning behind me wanting to stay in the VHLM. You lose quite a bit of opportunities to gain TPE by skipping Fan 590s, TC + weeks of PT just to stay under 175 if you are an active individual.

Edited March 15, 2014 by tfong