The All star game is slightly flawed

[Matt_O 896]

Overall I like the way we do the all star games. HOWEVER, their is an issue with GMs selecting a player. This is a problem because GMs pick people that don't belong in the all star game, instead of players that had all star worthy seasons. Here are some examples:

 

Davos selects John Madden. He had 64 points, a solid year. But Dahlberg, Dragomir, Peace, Crimson and Harding all had more points. 

 

Helsinki selects Jesse Wilson. 74 points for a defenseman is a good season, but Dan Montgomery had 91 points. Borwinn had 114 points. Thompson had 101 points. Sidney Crosby had 77. Not to mention Pepper, with a .921 save percentage and a 2.45 GAA.

 

Seattle selects goalie Clayton Park. Shawniganen, Mars and Gate all had 90+ points. Park did not have an all star worthy season by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Vancouver selects Rauno Palo. Palo had a great year, so not much to complain about, although Louth had 90 points and Davis had 104 points.

 

And now, easily the most horrific selection: Riga selects HHH. To make matters worse, the decision was a coin flip between HHH and Anthony Matthews. Matthews had 17 points, HHH had 50. Preencarnacion had 97 points, Cast had 80. Kastelic had 80. Kriketers had an amazing season. HHH should absolutely not be going to the all star game. That is, simply put, embarassing. 

 

I don't know if the all star game was set up this way by design, but if not, the issue is obvious. GMs are taking guys that didn't have good seasons and putting them in over better players since they think that those better players will be able to make it to the all star game anyways. Smart strategy, but when you get things like HHH going to the all star game, it gets ridiculous.

 

If this system of voting was made like this on purpose, then ignore this argument. But if not, then there is somewhat of an issue. Preencarnacion was voted in, but Peace failed to make it because HHH was selected to make it. Thats ridiculous

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Matt_O

[Beketov 8,642]

Yeah, I think the idea was good at first but GM’s are clearly taking advantage of it a bit now. When we first started it they picked logical guys as it’s designed but then we saw a few good players (though not the team’s top players) getting missed so a lot of GM’s starting putting in fringe players knowing their top guys would get in anyway.

 

I don’t hate the concept of the GM choice but it definitely cheapens it a bit when you get guys that, by their own admission, didn’t have good seasons instead of guys that maybe didn’t have the most amazing seasons ever but were solid.

[Beaviss 4,949]

Only problem is changing it some teams won't get a representative... Maybe I just auto pick the best player from each team next time?

[Rayzor_7 741]

5 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

Only problem is changing it some teams won't get a representative... Maybe I just auto pick the best player from each team next time?

I feel like the top players should be automatic while the GM's nominate voteable depth players. Best of both worlds

[Ace 85]

Somehow I wasn’t an all star so there’s an inherent problem. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

1 hour ago, Rayzor_7 said:

I feel like the top players should be automatic while the GM's nominate voteable depth players. Best of both worlds

 

Community involvement is important though

[gorlab 4,321]

HHH confirmed bum

[omgitshim 898]

On 6/19/2019 at 4:31 PM, Beaviss said:

Only problem is changing it some teams won't get a representative... Maybe I just auto pick the best player from each team next time?

 

Could just have the voting for the top so many positions and then the All Star GMs can fill the last couple of spots with someone from the Teams that got missed.

[Beaviss 4,949]

1 minute ago, omgitshim said:

 

Could just have the voting for the top so many positions and then the All Star GMs can fill the last couple of spots with someone from the Teams that got missed.

 

Only problem with that though is players play positions so if only forwards get chosen then they would all have to agree who from what team would get picked. That would be a nightmare.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

On 6/19/2019 at 7:31 PM, Beaviss said:

Only problem is changing it some teams won't get a representative... Maybe I just auto pick the best player from each team next time?

 

Make a huge poll with a shit ton of players where people vote for every all-star roster spot at once. Then do it like baseball and force each team to have at least one representative, so the highest vote-getter for a team that had no one make it organically replaces the lowest-voted all-star in their position group.

[Beaviss 4,949]

Just now, .sniffuM said:

 

Make a huge poll with a shit ton of players where people vote for every all-star roster spot at once. Then do it like baseball and force each team to have at least one representative, so the highest vote-getter for a team that had no one make it organically replaces the lowest-voted all-star in their position group.

 

Id get torched if people think they got in and I replaced them. I think it works better the current way but maybe ill limit it to 5 players from each team they can choose.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

Or to make that easier do one round of polling for starters, another round for like second line, and then a big poll to fill out the spots, with that being the point where you force in the all-stars for teams that don't have any.

 

Really I just want this to be more work for Beaviss to do.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

Just now, Beaviss said:

 

Id get torched if people think they got in and I replaced them. I think it works better the current way but maybe ill limit it to 5 players from each team they can choose.

 

Just tell people tough titties, play better.

[Beaviss 4,949]

Just now, .sniffuM said:

Or to make that easier do one round of polling for starters, another round for like second line, and then a big poll to fill out the spots, with that being the point where you force in the all-stars for teams that don't have any.

 

Really I just want this to be more work for Beaviss to do.

 

It already sucks to do the setup

[FrostBeard 1,975]

I truly believe that All-star team concept in VHL is pretty well balanced - there is a selection by GM's who can get in whoever they and their roster thinks fits (That is their decision and if they consider that player and all-star, it is fine), after that the best players get voted in. So you know that there is 100% team representation + the community selections of "Best players". 

The all-star concept does not always put the best players in, but it allows to see how teams treat these games and to be fair - it seems that many don't really care if they are selected or not. 

When it comes to a choice between HHH and AM, yeah, it is clearly not the best statistical choice, but they are selecting their rookies to have a chance at being in an all-star team. I am not looking at all this so strictly as I find that sometimes adding louder players (I consider HHH equivalent to Marchand)  or those who haven't been in an all-star game can be as enjoyable. 

[Beaviss 4,949]

1 minute ago, FrostBeard said:

I truly believe that All-star team concept in VHL is pretty well balanced - there is a selection by GM's who can get in whoever they and their roster thinks fits (That is their decision and if they consider that player and all-star, it is fine), after that the best players get voted in. So you know that there is 100% team representation + the community selections of "Best players". 

The all-star concept does not always put the best players in, but it allows to see how teams treat these games and to be fair - it seems that many don't really care if they are selected or not. 

When it comes to a choice between HHH and AM, yeah, it is clearly not the best statistical choice, but they are selecting their rookies to have a chance at being in an all-star team. I am not looking at all this so strictly as I find that sometimes adding louder players (I consider HHH equivalent to Marchand)  or those who haven't been in an all-star game can be as enjoyable. 

 

This.

 

Me and the AM where the only players on the team that wanted to go anyways. Hedge asked victor and he said he doesn't care about the ASG.

[omgitshim 898]

It really just depends on how much importance is put on the ASG. If it's just an exhibition then it's not much of an issue to have some "suboptimal" rosters. If number of ASGs made is a consideration for HoF eligibility, then we need to do a better job of making sure that the top players are getting in.

[FrostBeard 1,975]

3 minutes ago, omgitshim said:

It really just depends on how much importance is put on the ASG. If it's just an exhibition then it's not much of an issue to have some "suboptimal" rosters. If number of ASGs made is a consideration for HoF eligibility, then we need to do a better job of making sure that the top players are getting in.

Well, then we really need clarification as I have not really heard that All-star participation is really taken into an account for that. If so, then there has to be a lot of brainstorming done and find a perfect way how to organise that.

[Beketov 8,642]

14 minutes ago, omgitshim said:

It really just depends on how much importance is put on the ASG. If it's just an exhibition then it's not much of an issue to have some "suboptimal" rosters. If number of ASGs made is a consideration for HoF eligibility, then we need to do a better job of making sure that the top players are getting in.

From my memory ASG participation and performance has never been a factor for the HoF. I know for sure we don’t list it on the ballot like we do for stats, cups, awards, and all-VHL teams.

[monkeywrench15 220]

I like to think I'd get in even if I wasn't picked by my GM, but thanks for the shade

[Beaviss 4,949]

21 minutes ago, monkeywrench15 said:

I like to think I'd get in even if I wasn't picked by my GM, but thanks for the shade

 

Dont worry most of it is aimed at HHH.

[omgitshim 898]

5 hours ago, Beketov said:

From my memory ASG participation and performance has never been a factor for the HoF. I know for sure we don’t list it on the ballot like we do for stats, cups, awards, and all-VHL teams.

 

In that case I don't think we really need to change things. It's nice that GMs can hand pick someone they think would appreciate it, though admittedly it does feel bad when they pick someone who was significantly worse than you and then you don't get in.