firestorm tweet

[gorlab 4,321]

5 minutes ago, Beketov said:

And that right there is the problem. You were around for his good years and gone for his shitty years so yes, obviously you remember a very different Boubabi than the one who we banned. If I trusted the fact that THAT BOUBABI would come back I’d be fine with it. However that version of him died a hell of a long time ago. By the end he was telling us in no uncertain terms that he never intended to help the community every again, was not going to change the way he talked to people, was not going to take responsibility for his actions, and did not care.

 

You need to face the fact that the Boubabi you remember is not the Boubabi we banned. You’d fondly remember this Boubabi but we banned this one. If you don’t see a problem with what he was doing in there, specifically to brand new members especially, then there’s really not much of a discussion we can have about this.

 

Alright, fair enough. I will acknowledge your point here because its fair and I don't have the time to read through 16 pages and try to make points supporting boubabi... I feel his pain with award snubbing tho.

 

 

.... I can still keep free boubabi in my signature tho, right? 

[Nykonax 1,550]

26 minutes ago, gorlab said:

before regarding sim league bans

you'd know a lot about that

[gorlab 4,321]

5 minutes ago, Nykonax said:

you'd know a lot about that

 

 

My final thought for this thread.... Rip Higgins' recreate. Taken from us before he even got here.

[Enorama 1,981]

6 minutes ago, Nykonax said:

you'd know a lot about that

 

@gorlab knows a thing or two about headhunting over sim league award voting too  

 

I think this sums up that whole thread pretty well though:

 

 

[Beketov 8,689]

9 minutes ago, gorlab said:

I feel his pain with award snubbing tho.

Except that he wasn’t being snubbed at all. He was the runaway winner from the get-go. He just couldn’t accept not getting 100% of the vote.

[gorlab 4,321]

h e a d  h u n t e r  s q u a d 

[diamond_ace 3,106]

8 hours ago, gorlab said:

You guys are changing the narriative though. 

 

The only person ive ever seen truly say 'I don't want boubabi back' is Beketov. Maybe I'm wrong, and there are actually numerous members out there who hate boubabi and never want him to return, but I sincerely doubt that. 

 

Sonnet were you even on the VHL when boubabi was here? You talk really vaguely about reading 'story after story' and talking to 'numerous members'.... What stories? What members? 

 

Feel free to alert these members and tell them to come to this thread and confirm they want boubabi hung and lynched irl because of stuff he typed out on the internet years ago. 

 

 

Only person I've ever seen refusing to entertain the idea of unbanning boubabi is Beketov. Full stop. This thread has numerous members who actually were here to interact with boubabi, and they all look to not give a shit about this virtue signalling lifetime ban he's on. 

I don't want him hung and lynched irl, that's a bit much, but I don't want him back, and I was around for him.

[Higgins 3,617]

I'd argue the majority of people that "left because of boubabi" were old timer members who were taking breaks anyways (lots of members have taken breaks and come back after months even years) or outright losing interest in sim league as they got older and more responsibilities in life. It was just a convenient point to make as a reason to justify. 

 

Im sure @Beketov never baited boubabi before either  There were 3-5 people that enjoyed getting into public arguments with boubabi. Don't even try to tell me they didn't enjoy it at the time. I argued with him all the time years ago but I never let it get personal or leave league topics. It's takes 2 or more to tango and usually it takes multiple parties to push things too far (personal attacks, or just devolving of the arguments into dumb made-up one upping insults.

 

Its nice to know @gorlab has his head on straight in this day in age of the over bearing political correctness.

[Beketov 8,689]

32 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Don't even try to tell me they didn't enjoy it at the time.

I can 100% tell you I didn’t enjoy it. I enjoy the community of the VHL, it’s members. I don’t enjoy having to deal with those members being attacked non-stop because 1 person doesn’t understand where the line is. For several months straight I woke up every day to find 4-5 fires to put out, knowing I’d go to bed and have to deal with the same shit the next day. He enjoyed causing havoc because it gave him attention and he refused to accept that there’s a way to voice your opinion that you don’t come off as a complete asshole. It’s Pinot political correctness, it’s simply having some human decency.

 

Do I deny that I got into it with him? Nope, not at all. However I was responding to his attacks, not baiting him into making them. For whatever reason you love the shit that he causes so you love to think he was perfect but then fact is Boubabi nearly brought this entire league down with his antics. Our members were angry, our recruiting and posting was non-existent, and no one gave a damn about anything. You may have been winning so it may have been fun for you but it was absolute cancer for the league.

[Higgins 3,617]

2 hours ago, Beketov said:

I can 100% tell you I didn’t enjoy it. I enjoy the community of the VHL, it’s members. I don’t enjoy having to deal with those members being attacked non-stop because 1 person doesn’t understand where the line is. For several months straight I woke up every day to find 4-5 fires to put out, knowing I’d go to bed and have to deal with the same shit the next day. He enjoyed causing havoc because it gave him attention and he refused to accept that there’s a way to voice your opinion that you don’t come off as a complete asshole. It’s Pinot political correctness, it’s simply having some human decency.

 

Do I deny that I got into it with him? Nope, not at all. However I was responding to his attacks, not baiting him into making them. For whatever reason you love the shit that he causes so you love to think he was perfect but then fact is Boubabi nearly brought this entire league down with his antics. Our members were angry, our recruiting and posting was non-existent, and no one gave a damn about anything. You may have been winning so it may have been fun for you but it was absolute cancer for the league.

 

Of course you didnt enjoy putting out the fires. It’s exhausting reading through other people’s meaningless arguments.

 

Titans were painted as the ‘bad guys’. Punk hippie, Robbie, Boubabi, DT, and myself all at some time. It’s a role when played within sim league boundaries is amazing. Causes a lot of activity to have the team everyone loves to hate.

 

I know you’re over exaggerating but one person didn’t bring the whole site down just like one person doesn’t bring it up.

 

You and boubabi don’t get along and you were the one that had the option to remove him and you did. It’s been over a year, time to unban? 

[eaglesfan036 4,585]

I think it’s a bit much putting the entire league dying and lack of recruitment on Boubabi. His presence did not stop our recruitment teams from doing being as successful as they are now, just the way we recruit now is clearly much better. And while a few members got into it with him I don’t think the majority of the league was adversely effected. 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

 

Of course you didnt enjoy putting out the fires. It’s exhausting reading through other people’s meaningless arguments.

 

Titans were painted as the ‘bad guys’. Punk hippie, Robbie, Boubabi, DT, and myself all at some time. It’s a role when played within sim league boundaries is amazing. Causes a lot of activity to have the team everyone loves to hate.

 

I know you’re over exaggerating but one person didn’t bring the whole site down just like one person doesn’t bring it up.

 

You and boubabi don’t get along and you were the one that had the option to remove him and you did. It’s been over a year, time to unban? 

 

Theres a difference between playing that role and just being a straight up asshole. Robbie and DT are good at it, Gorlab is good at it, and Im sure theres others im forgetting, but Boubs and Punkhippie crossed the line both way too often and way too hard. Made it personal rather than sim related.

[Beketov 8,689]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

It’s been over a year, time to unban? 

If I had any faith he wouldn’t go right back to being a complete asshole to anyone with a pulse not named Higgins then maybe. However I have no faith that would be the case, quite the opposite actually. He was a detriment to the league that enjoyed crossing the line as much as possible and then blaming others for how they reacted to him. The league doesn’t need that kind of behaviour. He had his chances, plenty of them, and they were all wasted. Why should I give him his hundredth chance? Because you asked? Because people are getting along too well without having personal arguments every day?

 

The league can’t get anything done when all the blue team is doing is putting out fires. We’re a better league without all that drama.

[Beketov 8,689]

53 minutes ago, flyersfan1453 said:

 

Theres a difference between playing that role and just being a straight up asshole. Robbie and DT are good at it, Gorlab is good at it, and Im sure theres others im forgetting, but Boubs and Punkhippie crossed the line both way too often and way too hard. Made it personal rather than sim related.

Exactly. he was not playing up the “bad guy” role, he was just straight up spitting bile at anyone that dared to come to close while disagreeing with him. You can’t look through topics like that Slobo vote and say he was being a reasonable member. No one can possibly have their head in the sand that far to think that kind of behaviour can be tolerated or accepted in any kind of civil conversation.

[Higgins 3,617]

1 hour ago, flyersfan1453 said:

 

Theres a difference between playing that role and just being a straight up asshole. Robbie and DT are good at it, Gorlab is good at it, and Im sure theres others im forgetting, but Boubs and Punkhippie crossed the line both way too often and way too hard. Made it personal rather than sim related.

 

I guess it comes down to who shot first? Because we all know personal shots were fired in every direction. That’s where it gets murky. No one can deny shit got out of hand. 

 

As someone who saw it from boubabis side I know he was baited and toyed with. When he was unbanned it was always with threats attached. 

 

Some are better at playing the victim than others.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Higgins

[Higgins 3,617]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

Exactly. he was not playing up the “bad guy” role, he was just straight up spitting bile at anyone that dared to come to close while disagreeing with him. You can’t look through topics like that Slobo vote and say he was being a reasonable member. No one can possibly have their head in the sand that far to think that kind of behaviour can be tolerated or accepted in any kind of civil conversation.

 

I don’t bring up the bad guy role for that reason. I bring it up as boubabi always had to watch his back. No one was defending him. In his mind everyone with any power here was against him and conspiring against him.

 

And I can’t say that wasn’t at least somewhat true.

[gorlab 4,321]

I'll always support the free boubabi movement, but speaking from first hand experience, even if we were to unban him, I do think his passion and desire to "do things" around VHL would be dramatically decreased. IMO the damage is done, and VHL has likely lost boubabi forever, regardless of his "banned" status or not.  That's a very sad realization for me. 

[Beketov 8,689]

2 hours ago, Higgins said:

 

I don’t bring up the bad guy role for that reason. I bring it up as boubabi always had to watch his back. No one was defending him. In his mind everyone with any power here was against him and conspiring against him.

 

And I can’t say that wasn’t at least somewhat true.

You can but you won’t because you long ago decided that regardless of what we say you’re going to side with him; or at least that’s always how it’s looked.

 

Here’s the issue with saying no one was defending him: he refused to act in a defensible way. Members of the blue team can’t tell people that are being shouted at, when the shouting was completely unprovoked, to just suck it up. That would be defending what he was doing. Believe it or not, I certainly know he didn’t, but we did what we could at the time. We enacted an entire set of rules against being assholes to each other which shouldn’t have needed to be said at all, we did our best to curb anyone antagonizing him or others, we generally tried to keep the peace. The problem was that people were very divided. Any argument, regardless which side we took, someone was bound to shout that we weren’t defending them and everyone in power was corrupt. We got it every day from both sides. There was no way anyone was going to be happy unless everyone calmed the fuck down which is what we were trying to get him to do but he made it perfectly clear that wasn’t going to happen. I defended him the best I could and gave him more shots to make the job easier than he deserved. If he had been able to contain himself even one ounce it could have been fine but every chance we have him to come back he just fought harder. I can’t defend that kind of behaviour.

1 hour ago, gorlab said:

I'll always support the free boubabi movement, but speaking from first hand experience, even if we were to unban him, I do think his passion and desire to "do things" around VHL would be dramatically decreased. IMO the damage is done, and VHL has likely lost boubabi forever, regardless of his "banned" status or not.  That's a very sad realization for me. 

Honestly I wouldn’t even care. We have plenty who just show up, chat, do their welfare, and that’s it. We don’t need every member to be making our logos and banners and themes and everything else. The problem was not his decision to stop doing things for us, we have plenty of other means for that. The problem was that he decided to go from being a help to an actual detriment to the league. If he had just stopped helping out but wasn’t antagonizing everyone that would have been fine.

[Higgins 3,617]

1 hour ago, gorlab said:

I'll always support the free boubabi movement, but speaking from first hand experience, even if we were to unban him, I do think his passion and desire to "do things" around VHL would be dramatically decreased. IMO the damage is done, and VHL has likely lost boubabi forever, regardless of his "banned" status or not.  That's a very sad realization for me. 

 

True

 

Its more about the principle now. I think it's stupid and grudges that are never ending. I can't make another player here with boubabi banned forever.

[eaglesfan036 4,585]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

 

True

 

Its more about the principle now. I think it's stupid and grudges that are never ending. I can't make another player here with boubabi banned forever.

Please come back ily